To all the Poppy mains: How is Poppy's kit looking?

Blade of Justic·Nov 30, 2015·3 votes·1,833 views

I'm no Poppy main, but I did like how her old kit functioned.

So, I'm asking all the Poppy mains that happen upon this thread:

How is Poppy's kit looking?

22 Comments

BastionKrossNov 30, 20153 votes

The biggest gripe I have is that ult. I understand why the old ult had to go, and I'm not going to try and defend it. But by the same token, the new ult isn't a great ability. I think of it in the same vein as I do a Sion ult:

"Hey, here's something totally outrageous and fun and new and exciting! This is going to be great!" "Oh wait, it's horribly unreliable, misses often, and takes time to execute that the opponents can see coming a mile away." "I'm never going to land this unless I just tap it right up in the enemy's face, that seems to work better." "But that takes all the fun out of it and just makes it into a knockup with some damage attached! Alistar has that on his Q and it's a much shorter CD."

Just like you almost never see a Sion ult work out well from half a map away, 90% of the time Poppy players are just going to doubletap and use the ult as a knockup. Yes, there are some situations where removing an enemy from the fight for several seconds is going to be useful, but having that enemy set up for imminent death as opposed to flung back toward safety is going to be much more preferable in most cases. Poppy's new ult isn't anything special if it's just used like a point blank knockup most of the time, same as Sion.

Riot seems to want so badly to turn her into a tanky bodyguard ala Braum , but Poppy players never played her like that and never asked for that kind of playstyle. We want a juggernaut that gets in the fight and smashes people's face with a hammer, not a tank spending most of the teamfight keeping MissFortune alive. Old Poppy never cared about keeping her teammates alive, she did all the killing herself. Why should that be changed? It's like turning Riven into a second Janna , that's a huge disconnect between the role they used to have and the role they have now, and I'd give the Riot HQ three days before a mob engulfed the building in flames if they pulled this stunt with a more popular champion.

The solution that satisfies both? Remove the part of the ult that always knocks them back toward their own base. Let Poppy knock people under her own towers, or pull off an Insec. Let her be able to use a fully charged ult both offensively and defensively. It can still be this big "lol get out of this fight" button that Riot seems to want for her, but it's now more flexible and takes a bit more skill to use since you have to make sure you're punting that enemy in the right direction. Now Poppy can be played as the tanky bodyguard, but she can also be an aggressive champion re-positioner like LeeSin .

LF AnnieDec 23, 20151 votes

i would buy another poppy skin for this implementation on the ult. it would make the kit fee funner than "i saved their carry, srry"

MalchaNov 30, 20152 votes

I wouldn't say I'm a poppy main, but I do love the champion and play her somewhat frequently.

She scales very differently. Because of the passive resist buff on W, you actually need to build resist on her. She's transition from a non-interactive assassin to a bruiser. Her damage is still of the charts in the right circumstances but you need to land the stun into a wall more than ever. No more one shots with the Milk Build, so it's an expectation you can remove.

Her ult is fantastic and if used properly allows for devastating changes in team fights and objective control. She is a more viable jungler, in terms of her actual lane presence, however her passive doesn't carry her as much in the jungle as the old one. It's a pretty fun kid and the damage is reasonable. I feel as though it doesn't quite have that BOOM feeling I loved so much about the old poppy. It's a more grounded kit with more levels to pull in terms of balance, for better or worse.

To be honest, I'm hoping they bump the damage on her ult a little, however, I know why it's low and they're reasoning seems fair. If I had to guess, she's probably going to end up getting buffed a bit. It feels like she's really ineffective outside of ult if she can't manage to make use of a wall.

XxxLumberJackxxXNov 30, 20151 votes

if her ult did real damage she'd be broken as bottom lane support. Think bout it.

MobrexNov 30, 20152 votes

My original post on her update page is below and it is how i currently feel today. I have mained poppy for 3 seasons reaching as high as platinum 1. I know not great but decent:

As a poppy main for three seasons and a dedicated player who believed the challenge of playing poppy rewarded those that played her, and for all of the players that learned how to master her early game woes poppy was a privilege to play.

I believe all the criticism concerning her old kit was from the corpses a real good poppy player left on the battle field not from actual Poppy players. Why does ever champ need to be easy to play? Not everyone desires to smash buttons and snowball like a Riven.

I've been dreading this day for the past year. I will wait to see how the changes play out in game, but overall on first impression I have mixed emotions. On appearance it looks like they removed her identity as an assassin and changed her into a utility tank. This was the change most of us were afraid of.

I understand people’s frustration with her old ult and I am optimistic of her new R even though it is hindered by being channeled. The changes to her W appear to be useful and I'm glad they kept her E. Visually she looks stunning.

The Q is my biggest concern. Smash the ground? and have it rebound back? I'm sorry but her old Q and the identity of it was much better. It allowed her to creatively build her kit as an ad, hybrid, or ap assassin and the %health damage allowed our little slugger to take down the fiercest of foes. Plus it hammered people in the face... I think her new Q is lacking... Her passive seems like an odd mix of gnar and draven I really don't get why she would want to throw her shield to begin with.

I just wanted to voice to the masses of new poppy players, that I'm sure will follow, the frustrations of her old guard. Who have been looking on this day with hopefulness yet sorrow. Not with the jubilant excitement many of you feel.

***PS every poppy main is pissed cus they gutted her hybrid/assassin kit and turned her into a utility tank. Why make updates that punish the players that actually play her to make her more popular with players that do not? Why not just make a new champ?

My two cents.

Blade of JusticNov 30, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Why not just make a new champ?

That's how I felt with Sion. Amumu

MadDoughnutzNov 30, 20151 votes

Because she is(soon to be was) toxic. Riot can make her early game near-impossible to survive, make her late game do no damage, anything they want with numbers and adjustments. That isn't what matters. Her playstyle, as much as old Poppy mains loved it, was very terrible to play against. There was no interaction for other players to enjoy when playing against her, she either was farmed enough to smash your face in with Q and kill you, or she wasn't. Numerous parts of her kit(In fact, all of them except E) were either invisible power(Passive, W) that were just stats heaped onto to make her tankier without any decision making or accurate estimation of how tanky she was for enemies to judge, Q was a point and click stat boost on one auto attack that did magic damage when she built AD and did % max Hp so there was literally no way to build against it, health, armor, or magic resist, and there was no decision making on when to use it for Poppy. Her ult was the biggest offender by far, literally removing 4 players on the enemy for you to care or worry about while you did whatever you wished with no interaction or ability for those 4 players to do or stop you.

Poppy may have been fun for you and other Poppy mains to play, but she feels absolutely terrible to play against because she has very little in terms of what people can do against her once she farms enough other then not positioning to be E'd into a wall. That is why Riot is reworking her and removing the old Poppy. Because it wasn't fun to play against and didn't allow nearly any decision or skill for those playing against it. You can call it 'Punishing' for all the players that played her, but in reality you were just players playing a champion with a broken, toxic playstyle in the first place.

Reaper ReviewNov 30, 20151 votes

{quoted} Why not just make a new champ?

You're basically telling Riot to make a second "tough as nails yordle with a giant hammer".

One of the big reasons for relaunches is correcting disconnects between theme and gameplay. In Poppy's case, she was obviously intended to be a tanky bruiser. High base damages, durability, and a bit of CC. Like a more defensive Renekton.

Instead, she's become an "assassin" because of archaic kit design and her poorly-designed ult. Assassins aren't supposed to be "tough as nails" by design, and when an assassin has too much stock outside of that role, it tends to not work right. (See: Ekko becoming a tank jungler despite his Assassin label. And arguably Rengar, having been some combination of bruiser/tank/fighter/assassin his entire life.)

The new kit fits what Poppy was always intended to be, like how Sion's makes him really feel like an enraged brute with an over-sized axe.

Her "assassination smash" playstyle would be cool on a new champ who's actually designed around it, though. Especially since we have no true assassin yordles (even the ninja yordle's not really an assassin, and Teemo is closer to a mage than anything else). But keeping Poppy as a bruiser/assassin and designing a second champ with a similar overall feel would be stupid and a waste of resources.

On another note, no matter what direction they tried to take Poppy, her passive, W, and ult would've all been scrapped anyway. Her passive and ult because they're basically the worst-designed skills in the game bar none, and her W because it's nothing but stats and more stats.

MobrexNov 30, 20152 votes

I am not going to get in a long debate but i feel like I should comment. First off you speak hypothetical as tho it is fact. How she was "intended" to be played vs how she was played. From the moment I started playing and for the past 3 or 4 seasons she has had assassin next to her name. We can debate whether this was intended or not but I would prefer to speak in terms of reality instead of theoretically. "How she was intended to be...." I can argue all day that her passive gave no incentive to build health so how could there be intent to make her into a tank. In my opinion it was there intent to make her tough enough to kill someone and get the hell out.

I also never said make a second yordle with a hammer. It was more like, keep this yordle with a hammer and make some other utility tank with all sorts of disengages. I also never said her kit could not use an update. What I said is they gutted her identity and the reason why the people mained her picked her as their favorite champion.

And to MadDoughutz's argument of her toxic play kit and with no counter play. There is plenty of counter play for her. The easiest being keep her farm low in lane or counter jungling her and take advantage of her weak early game. That part of the game is not what you were talking about tho. You were specifically talking bout her end game and the fact that she was, "terrible to play against because she has very little in terms of what people can do against her once she farms enough other then not positioning to be E'd into a wall." There was plenty of counter play to her ult:

Ult the support. (exhaust, cc, interupt)
Ult the carry (dash, heal, kite, avoid wall)
Ult the a different member of team besides target or support (burn her health or cc)

It just took the other team being smart enough to not "fish" with their cc, a good positioned adc, and a support that understood it was their job to peal the poppy. (which is pretty much every team plat and above.)

All in all both of your arguments are typical. "playing a champion with a broken, toxic playstyle in the first place." If she was easy to play and broken everyone would have played her. The fact is she was not easy to play and if you were good with her you were rewarded with a strong end game. How is that toxic? I do not have anymore time to debate with you, but I will reiterate my main point because I believe it is valid.

How can a rework be successful when the people that played poppy think you gutted her identity? It is as if this rework was made for all the people that gave up or did not play her and not her loyal fan base.

ZenithEinNov 30, 20151 votes

Part of the reason they reworked her had to do with how bipolar her power is, as well as how dissimilar her story identity is with her actual in-game play.

Her identity, story-wise at least, is of a noble warrior who fights both for vengeance and to protect others. She never really had the feel in game, lacking any real way to protect someone short of "I kill them before they kill you", which never seemed to fit her thematically
Her passive was a major source of invisible power that leads to her being toxic when ahead. The problem is, as the reduction was based on current health, had no cooldown or downtime, on top of its proc level being a mere 10%, and reducing that damage by half resulted in a champion that when ahead had little to no risk as long as she didn't make an egregious error. That's not to say that her passive was utterly broken, but its constant reduction with no period of vulnerability made it so that once Poppy got ahead, she had to make a mistake in order to die.
Her old Q wasn't bad, the percent health damage making a it relevant at all stages of the game. The problem that resulted from it was it had high hybrid scaling, plus an immediate burst of 8 percent max health damage made it a mixed damage nuke attached to a hyper tank. Nukes on tanks are not unheard of, but one on such low cooldown is quite odd.
Her W is again an example of an ability that is not bad out of context. The only problem that results from it are when you combine it with her R and Q, it results in an incredibly fast, tanky assassin that can chase and burst down just about any champion.
Her e is absolutely fine. Still suffers a bit from that discordant theme, but it fits in along with her W. No real complaints there, in fact I really like the ability in general.
Her ult on the other hand, that's a separate issue and the cause for much of the problems faced when balancing her. Combined with the rest of her kit, her ult creates a mobile, tanky assassin that is immune to 4/5ths of your teams' damage and cc for 6-8 seconds and deals 20-40% more damage to her target. When a Poppy is ahead, this ability is downright oppressive. By picking either someone who can't cc her, or is unable to stop her in any way, she gets to free roam with little regard for your team. By picking an adc, she negates any peel the enemy team tries to apply, either with damage or cc, combined with her speed and tackle allowing her to chase them down.

This is what happens when a Poppy gets ahead or goes even in lane. When Poppy gets behind and dominated early, the game often ends with the Poppy feeling useless and having little chance to really make an impact. She is either oppressive and toxic, creating a game that becomes flat out un-enjoyable for most opponents, or she is underwhelming and behind. Much of this comes from the fact that Riot intentionally gutted her early game, trying appease those that played her while preventing her from becoming a dominant force.

MalchaDec 1, 20152 votes

{quoted}

My original post on her update page is below and it is how i currently feel today. I have mained poppy for 3 seasons reaching as high as platinum 1. I know not great but decent:

As a poppy main for three seasons and a dedicated player who believed the challenge of playing poppy rewarded those that played her, and for all of the players that learned how to master her early game woes poppy was a privilege to play.

I believe all the criticism concerning her old kit was from the corpses a real good poppy player left on the battle field not from actual Poppy players. Why does ever champ need to be easy to play? Not everyone desires to smash buttons and snowball like a Riven.

I've been dreading this day for the past year. I will wait to see how the changes play out in game, but overall on first impression I have mixed emotions. On appearance it looks like they removed her identity as an assassin and changed her into a utility tank. This was the change most of us were afraid of.

I understand people’s frustration with her old ult and I am optimistic of her new R even though it is hindered by being channeled. The changes to her W appear to be useful and I'm glad they kept her E. Visually she looks stunning.

The Q is my biggest concern. Smash the ground? and have it rebound back? I'm sorry but her old Q and the identity of it was much better. It allowed her to creatively build her kit as an ad, hybrid, or ap assassin and the %health damage allowed our little slugger to take down the fiercest of foes. Plus it hammered people in the face... I think her new Q is lacking... Her passive seems like an odd mix of gnar and draven I really don't get why she would want to throw her shield to begin with.

I just wanted to voice to the masses of new poppy players, that I'm sure will follow, the frustrations of her old guard. Who have been looking on this day with hopefulness yet sorrow. Not with the jubilant excitement many of you feel.

***PS every poppy main is pissed cus they gutted her hybrid/assassin kit and turned her into a utility tank. Why make updates that punish the players that actually play her to make her more popular with players that do not? Why not just make a new champ?

My two cents.

That was my biggest issue. I feel like her Q was honestly the biggest part of her identity. It's like reworking Nidalee without spears, or MF without double up. It just doesn't quite feel right. I actually kinda hate that it doesn't deal magic damage or apply on hit affects. Mixed damage also felt like a big part of her identity, maybe that's just me though.

Honestly I like her just the way she was, I agree changes should have been made but, not to this extent. She honestly, in no way feels like the same champion, in terms of personality and gameplay. I've always felt as though a GU/VU should bring the champion into a more modern context, as opposed to removing them from the game entirely.

NintendorkDec 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

That was my biggest issue. I feel like her Q was honestly the biggest part of her identity. It's like reworking Nidalee without spears, or MF without double up. It just doesn't quite feel right. I actually kinda hate that it doesn't deal magic damage or apply on hit affects. Mixed damage also felt like a big part of her identity, maybe that's just me though.

Honestly I like her just the way she was, I agree changes should have been made but, not to this extent. She honestly, in no way feels like the same champion, in terms of personality and gameplay. I've always felt as though a GU/VU should bring the champion into a more modern context, as opposed to removing them from the game entirely.

Remember the holy trinity of mixed triforce users: Poppy Jax Irelia

And the Gunblade society: Poppy Jax Irelia Akali

TehNACHONov 30, 20151 votes

While I'm sure they exist, there probably isn't enough Poppy mains out there to give multiple perspectives on the subject.

Any who, I'm just gonna miss her hilariously weird Assassination play style. Oneshotting carries as AP Poppy will never be the same.

iBubblesNov 30, 20151 votes

Im going to miss her ult :c

Blue KaoziNov 30, 20151 votes

I dont play poppy atm, but her new kit looks really fun. I kind of want to fight a yasuo and have him bash is face repeatedly on my w.

EcchiOtakuTMNov 30, 20151 votes

She's great her old passive was insane and her old ulti I kinda wish the new one would kinda make a duel area for you and the target but aside from that it's all great

However all I really want is her Q's range to be 100-300(I'd have to look again to give an accurate range increase) units longer even if it's only the 2nd part, it's a skillshot with a delay, the delay range at least needs more.

AsydeNov 30, 20151 votes

Reposting this from a previous post I replied to. Didn't feel like re-typing

Oh, and Yes I'm a poppy main!

http://imgur.com/QREriG5

Coming from a poppy main for almost 4 years (+70,000 mastery points since mastery system was introduced), I can say I honestly love the changes.

If you were to break down "who poppy is" it would probably be a "fearless tanky yordle with a ton of burst who dives into the enemy team and removes someone from the fight." On that aspect I think riot has done a great job of keeping her identity intact.

The issue with old poppy is that she was a super high risk high reward champ. Her early game was so terrible that less skilled (and even decent skilled) poppy players were constantly shut out of games, leaving her team angry with her and destroying team synergy; not fun for poppy players or teammates. On the opposite end, her late game was so strong that, if you could get through the early game, she was unstoppable and offered little to no counter play with her ult; very fun for poppy players, but very toxic and unfair for enemies. So the issue here was balance. They needed to re-imagine her abilities and role in order to give her a more universal experience for players, teammates, and enemies.

P: Her passive is a little strange, but it gives her more laning presence due to giving her a ranged auto and ability management rewards (like gangplank barrels). She can now successfully make a meaningful impact on the lane and create opportunities where she otherwise might have had to just sit under turret.

Q: It seems her Q has been toned down a bit, but instead offers more utility. It's always been frustrating as a poppy player to have no way to slow down your enemy. It was always just E and chase with W. If the enemy had a dash they basically got a free escape unless you flash E them. As a bonus it also gives her a lot of much needed waveclear. <3

W: Continuing what I said about her Q, this effectively answers the issue with high mobility players or those with a dash. This gives her the ability to jump on her enemy with E, pop W and keep them with her. Conveniently this can be used very offensively as well as defensively. It's a much needed mechanic in the league of mobility. and so many more.

E: Classic E, I'm happy they kept it. Use it as a knock back, use it to knock them into your team, use it to stun, use it as an escape on a minion. It's a very effective skill.

R: Of course this is what everyone will be talking about. It is pretty hilarious after all. But I think this is a great answer to the "spirit" behind her original ult. "Dive the enemy team and remove someone from the fight". This effectively maintains that feel but in a way that is more fun, less toxic for the enemy team, and has a huge potential to creates massive plays... Much better for the ecosystem than just "watch me dive your adc, you can't do anything about it". I think its a great answer to balancing her ult while keeping the spirit behind it.

Poppy was always envisioned as a relatively tanky champ (focused, resolute, determined). One of the issues is that her passive mechanics made building tanky negatively impact her passives effectiveness and her damage potential (scaling) was so good that most people just played her as a hyper carry. I think this re-aligns her as potential front-line tank choice, but still gives people the ability to play dive and smash like she always has.

Overall i absolutely love the changes.

WindsjörnDec 5, 20151 votes

But won't this affect her kill/death ratio? Without the ability to immune herself from others, wouldn't she be burned down before she even reaches the team fight. Although I can see this being good for Solo vs Duo lane cause this means you can take one guy out of a fight or push both out of the way to stop their jump on you.

But back to the killing, I feel as though this will make her unable to kill unless the enemy is stupid enough, like how Singed works (Brawl a bit then poison trail and let the dumb enemy run in the clouds). Also now she jungles? What?

AsydeDec 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

But won't this affect her kill/death ratio? Without the ability to immune herself from others, wouldn't she be burned down before she even reaches the team fight. Although I can see this being good for Solo vs Duo lane cause this means you can take one guy out of a fight or push both out of the way to stop their jump on you.

But back to the killing, I feel as though this will make her unable to kill unless the enemy is stupid enough, like how Singed works (Brawl a bit then poison trail and let the dumb enemy run in the clouds). Also now she jungles? What?

To be fair, she always was able to jungle. In fact she's pretty decent at it (can solo drag at lvl 3).

However yes, she will not be the crazy KDA assassin she once was. No one is doubting that. People will have to build her as bruiser or tank in order to not be squishy. Her identity (if she is primary tank) to control the fight and protect everyone else. I've watched a lot of gameplay videos of her and she is still quite adept at killing, she just can't do it in 1 or 2 shots while no one can do anything anymore.

NintendorkDec 23, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Q: It seems her Q has been toned down a bit, but instead offers more utility. It's always been frustrating as a poppy player to have no way to slow down your enemy. It was always just E and chase with W. If the enemy had a dash they basically got a free escape unless you flash E them. As a bonus it also gives her a lot of much needed waveclear.

Oh, and Yes I'm a poppy main!

http://imgur.com/QREriG5

Even for a "main" you still didn't mastered the champion, I also played Poppy for near 4 years, 2.5K ranked matches.

I never missed having an slow on the Q, if you knew when to fight early game and people escape with little HP you won duel getting free exp/gold. If you knew when to fight you could easily follow them using E on a minion for a final Q execute or make them use a flash out of panic. Unless you guarantee 100% a stunwall you used the E as a gap closer using minions.

Need slow? Bring exhaust not flash, you're fast anyway. If people are escaping from you, they're doneso.

http://i.imgur.com/plmVyCL.jpg

summoner 21 summoner 3

Remember, you FARM champions, minions are just a bonus. I got my bread and butter S5 Poppy running 14% crit chance to maximize dueling potential.

HellhammerDec 1, 20151 votes

I pretty much only play poppy, i play lulu 2nd only to get games going without everyone bailing on me... so here is my thoughts.

the biggest negative is I find it horribly lazy that they got Tristana's VA to do poppy. - Stop listen to Teemo, Veigar, Rumble and Lulu and then listen to the new poppy. its better but cookie cutter, i miss the old poppy laugh the most.

I'm sort of peeved that I finally got LoliPoppy and got a month out of her for it to be changed, it just doesn't live up to the fear its old art had. but meh whatever.

Poppy was the first champion I really taken a liking to in the begining i thought she was crap, however I went back to her after I learned more about how league plays and felt Poppy has her " HARD EDGES " unlike the other champs who are very rounded off.

New Poppy seems to play simlar to how current poppy plays. the fact that her W now stops dashes, I looooove the idea that she takes a dump on all the champs I hate in league. the new W pretty much does it all for me.

the old burst and ult were awesome but your window of oppertunity to have that fun is narrow as hell you'd have it at about 15 minutes before it was slammed shut by late game.

WindsjörnDec 5, 20151 votes

So she has Darius's axe catch/orianna's ball pickup and then she has Tristana's ult that does little dmg. Then she has the ability to stop champs from running away (though I wonder if flash is affected by that ability. If so then I can use her.). She kept her E (Whew).

And now I have to skillshot her Q which has a delay......great....