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Please just get rid of Mage-phite (Just my opinion)

Goju··1 votes·1,513 views

(Pre-Post Disclaimer : I am not a challenger Tier player - I do not play ranked, but I have played League since Season 1-2 - so i been here for a bit and what follows is MY view on things - if you agree, great, if you disagree , understandable, but thanks for reading, either way)

Do not mistake me, I get why the AP ratios are there, but Malphite at his core was and should be a tank - tired of people going FULL AP Malphite.. , and unless your good at it , its non-team orientated and normally goes one of two ways -- the Malphite ruins the game for his team, OR He is good at it and destroys the game from level 6 on by popping people.

I am not saying there are not people out there that do play Mage-phite as a team player. But i have not had the honor or privilege of ever getting one of these "diamonds in the rough."

As a person who plays a lot of tanks/support, It hurts every time i see one of these, I mean , Alistar has AP ratios.. and a ulti that gives %DR, why not go item 3007 item 3285 item 3089 ect ect on him? The answer is obvious, 1) while he has ap ratios, (they suck cough ) he is mainly a support /tank, and it benefits the team better to play him as such. 2) his CD's and kit do not support a full mage play-style - 3) his mana would never support it either, lol (Disclaimer :the above are MY views, on him and not actual "facts", im sure someone out there is a plat mage Alistar )

Personally i think 99% of the "tanks" should take a page from the Ornn playbook.. he has 1 ability that scales with AD (his Q) one that scales with AP,(His Ult) and one that scales with Armor/MR - (his E)

this means that you can build kinda bruiser, but its better, for the team and for the champ to build as a tank with what ever you choose, ad/ap as a secondary.

With the current changes to most of my most beloved tanks, 80% of the populace no longer plays them as teamwork tanks, rather opting for the full mage. For example Maokai using Dark Harvest and Triumph - (which is busted as hell by the way, you can get like 40 second ultis, and if you use - , wait , not the point of this. Personally i thought Old Mao was much more teamwork orientated - building tank and standing in your team with his DR ulti - )

I mean they have all but kicked most tank in the nether-regions in league already with things like Vayne +item 3124 and item 3149 -every 2nd shot is %HP True dmg- as well as champs like Velkoz and the current idea of giving out True Damage with free samples of Tide in the mail.

I would like to see tanks get scaling based on building what they should be - tanks - HP/Armor/MR ratios - maybe low ap or ad ratio ect. To supplement --

Truth be told, - going a full AP tank should be like going full AP Ashe - yea its fun to goof on , yea it makes her R - pop people like a balloon, but its really not role she should be in .

The Current set up that Mage set ups are 75% more effective on tanks then building tanks is ..so i get WHY they do it , But in my mind a full mage tank just destroys the teamwork aspect that a tank should be living around, like blocking abilities for people, getting in the way of damage, and protecting the squishes.

Just my **opinion **- and after 2-3 games of getting the bad luck of having a team player take Mage-phite build no tank, and just fail horridly, I had a rant build up --Sorry for Length..

Good luck in your games.

14 Comments

Paroe6 votes

Homogenization ad pigeonholing ARE NEVER GOOD THINGS. By removing the versatility and forcing a champion into a singular build or playstyle you effectively remove any and all ability of theirs to adapt to itemization changes on the fly.

If anything, tanks with AP scaling like Braum, Leona, Rammus, and Malphite should be shifted to the much more synergistic and powerful AD bruiser itemization instead of being forced into a much weaker and less synergistic AP itemization if they want to do damage.

Done251 votes

{quoted}

Homogenization ad pigeonholing ARE NEVER GOOD THINGS. By removing the versatility and forcing a champion into a singular build or playstyle you effectively remove any and all ability of theirs to adapt to itemization changes on the fly.

If anything, tanks with AP scaling like Braum...

AP scaling? You mean the awful singular 60% AP ratio that he has on his ultimate and nowhere else?

Paroe1 votes

{quoted}

AP scaling? You mean the awful singular 60% AP ratio that he has on his ultimate and nowhere else?

If youre going to cherrypick you need to cherrypick the thing you have problems with and not the majority of a post. Braum only has an AP ratio on his R yes, but if braum were AD he would be able to basic attack, utilize trinity force properly, and overall be a much more effective tank because he wouldnt be ridiculously outscaled once the enemy buys an IE+zeal item.

, Leona, Rammus, and Malphite should be shifted to the much more synergistic and powerful AD bruiser itemization instead of being forced into a much weaker and less synergistic AP itemization if they want to do damage.

The same holds true for the others. Changing them off of magic damage into physical would also enable them to utilize a MUCH broader range of itemization that is simply superior than their AP counterparts... As well as allow their newly found potential strength to be itemized against better by the enemy, which creates more counterplay and more room to outplay.

Done251 votes

{quoted}

If youre going to cherrypick you need to cherrypick the thing you have problems with and not the majority of a post. Braum only has an AP ratio on his R yes, but if braum were AD he would be able to basic attack, utilize trinity force properly, and overall be a much more effective tank because he wouldnt be ridiculously outscaled once the enemy buys an IE+zeal item.

The same holds true for the others. Changing them off of magic damage into physical would also enable them to utilize a MUCH broader range of itemization that is simply superior than their AP counterparts... As well as allow their newly found potential strength to be itemized against better by the enemy, which creates more counterplay and more room to outplay.

My point was that no one intentionally builds AP on Braum unless they're fucking around with some kind of troll build. Braum basically has no worthwhile scaling other than "stack as much HP and defence as I can afford".

Also, Tanks generally aren't allowed to scale with AD because...then they'd just be better Divers.

Paroe1 votes

{quoted}

My point was that no one intentionally builds AP on Braum unless they're fucking around with some kind of troll build. Braum basically has no worthwhile scaling other than "stack as much HP and defence as I can afford".

It doesnt change the fact that tanks like the ones listed would be much better off if they were able to utilize the MUCH better AD+HP itemization that theyre locked out of because theyre AP. Again, if braum were AD he could build damage if he wanted to whereas right now he CANNOT build damage, and is pigeonholed into only building weak tank items.

Also, Tanks generally aren't allowed to scale with AD because...then they'd just be better Divers.

Youre... so fundamentally wrong here. A bruiser - a champion archetype which contains most of the divers in the game - will always be better than a tank even with the same itemization because they have higher bases, higher scaling, and built-in defense amps (such as sustain or passive resistances). Tanks would still be largely immobile with access to AD+HP itemization and still have their 'role' differences from bruisers. They would just be a little more of a threat if they want to be OR simply have access to the best HP itemization since the sweet spot for resistances is 120/80.

Done251 votes

{quoted}

It doesnt change the fact that tanks like the ones listed would be much better off if they were able to utilize the MUCH better AD+HP itemization that theyre locked out of because theyre AP. Again, if braum were AD he could build damage if he wanted to whereas right now he CANNOT build damage, and is pigeonholed into only building weak tank items.

Youre... so fundamentally wrong here. A bruiser - a champion archetype which contains most of the divers in the game - will always be better than a tank even with the same itemization because they have higher bases, higher scaling, and built-in defense amps (such as sustain or passive resistances). Tanks would still be largely immobile with access to AD+HP itemization and still have their 'role' differences from bruisers. They would just be a little more of a threat if they want to be OR simply have access to the best HP itemization since the sweet spot for resistances is 120/80.

I would normally argue with you, but they just leaked "Dunkmaster Ivern". So I'll just go hang myself instead.

Paroe1 votes

{quoted}

I would normally argue with you, but they just leaked "Dunkmaster Ivern". So I'll just go hang myself instead.

Did... Did they really? Will be the ultimate respect to Darius's ultimate disrespect?!

Done251 votes

{quoted}

Did... Did they really? Will be the ultimate respect to Darius's ultimate disrespect?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDBBaf1pbXE&app=desktop

Goju1 votes

{quoted}

Homogenization ad pigeonholing ARE NEVER GOOD THINGS. By removing the versatility and forcing a champion into a singular build or playstyle you effectively remove any and all ability of theirs to adapt to itemization changes on the fly.

If anything, tanks with AP scaling like Braum, Leona, Rammus, and Malphite should be shifted to the much more synergistic and powerful AD bruiser itemization instead of being forced into a much weaker and less synergistic AP itemization if they want to do damage.

But that is the point of league, you choose a role, and you play it best ya can .. you CAN play Ashe as AP, it does not make her a mage but a adc playing with AP, and its not generally acceptable unless your goofing around.

They made them into classes for a reason .. ADC, Tank, Assassin, Support , Mage --

-- you wanna snag some AP by running item 3027 or item 3116 I am not against it.. but it would be better then the item 3285 item 3089 and once even a item 3003 on him - then while yes, you augment his damage a bit, but your still there to fullfill your "role" as the tank.

I rarely if ever seen a FULL AP Leona or Braum... even though they too as you pointed out have ratios,

Leona / Malphite
40% / 60% on Q
40% / 0 + 10% atks after on W 40% / 60% on E 80% +15% on atks after / 100% on R

Now those are not horridly bad AP ratios - but no one plays her AP -the reason is that 1) if your gonna play a mage - there are better choices, and 2) she is just better as a tank..

I see your point, for versatility and ability- and I do not mean to "limit the ways to play champs" - however, as it sits - it seems a large portion of the playbase would rather play Malphite as a mage , rather then a tank as he role states -- meaning they need to move his role, or tweak him back to being a tank.

Ofc, Just my opinion.

Done253 votes

You know how you stop AP Malphite? Same way you do every other squishy AP burst mage. Build a Banshee, a Guardian Angel (or new PD), or a Maw.

After AP Malphite burns his combo he is done, and now he's in the middle of a very pissed off enemy team.

z63XnLCMwX1 votes

{quoted}

You know how you stop AP Malphite? Same way you do every other squishy AP burst mage. Build a Banshee, a Guardian Angel (or new PD), or a Maw.

After AP Malphite burns his combo he is done, and now he's in the middle of a very pissed off enemy team.

Counter against banshee, is twin shadow. Malphite is now in the middle of a dead enemy team.

Ragnaveil1 votes

This would also solve the issue of Sylas taking his ult and doing more with it than Malph can. I vouch on this as a Sylas main myself. Anytime I see the enemy pick Malph when I pick Sylas, my immediate thought is, "Welp, 2 people gonna die tonight (their botlane)."

MankeyMadness1 votes

Its similar in concept to AD Thresh or Trinity Blitzcrank - Yes your E empowered Autos will blow up any squishies but its hard to play. .

Solo lane Thresh does still work as a semi-serious mid laner but youre not going to build it Support. (item 3031 item 3147 item 3087 item 3046 )

Alzon1 votes

I prefer taking Lethal Tempo and maxing W while building full tank, over building AP. But typically AP is more “optimal”, and it is the ONLY way you can possibly play Malphite against a ranged top laner.

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