Lulu better not get nerfed for being used in the lcs

Danyul Targaryen·Mar 13, 2017·29 votes·3,702 views

i swear to god. She is barely viable mid and i need to keep the dream alive

84 Comments

SuperLuigiLXIVMar 13, 201711 votes

You know, I wouldn't mind Lulu and Ryze being strong so much if they weren't mostly used to give melee champions hell whenever they are.

KnoyleMar 13, 20177 votes

Let's be honest. What champion with consistent Range DOESN'T give a melee a hard time at this point?

SuperLuigiLXIVMar 13, 20175 votes

Yeah, I know, but generally speaking there are windows where a melee can really carve a hole through a lot of ranged champions if you pull it off.

Then there are champions like Ryze, Lulu, Quinn and Vlad where melee might as well browse the internet for fifteen minutes, because they won't be doing anything in-game.

Pang YMar 13, 20172 votes

{quoted}

You know, I wouldn't mind Lulu and Ryze being strong so much if they weren't mostly used to give melee champions hell whenever they are.

they get nerfed for pros being able to utilize their kit to the highest level :^)

RookPusherMar 13, 201711 votes

[{quoted}](name=Danyul Targaryen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MMKEPZQ2,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-03-13T16:35:57.445+0000)

i swear to god. She is barely viable mid and i need to keep the dream alive

Are you new?

She's not getting nerfed because she's in the LCS. She's getting overplayed because she's in the LCS, then she's getting nerfed.

LegendmakerGXMar 13, 20172 votes

Cough* Maokai going to be Shen next patch then future is Nautilus .

AnhartaminMar 14, 20171 votes

[deleted]

RookPusherMar 14, 20171 votes

Zed main is furious

AnhartaminMar 14, 20171 votes

[deleted]

RookPusherMar 14, 20171 votes

I feel the same way about a boy addressing a man. We all suffer indignities.

Try a champ with skill.

AnhartaminMar 15, 20171 votes

[deleted]

RookPusherMar 15, 20171 votes

Do you feel better about yourself now?

AnhartaminMar 15, 20171 votes

[deleted]

RookPusherMar 15, 20171 votes

See, this is what I meant by Man v. boy. You asked me if I was high, I stated what is all but fact - that a melee champ main is mad that a counter exists.

Then you accused me of being rude. If you can't handle the heat, stay out of the kitchen. But don't augment reality to fit whatever emotionally fragile worldview you have.

I said you were a Zed Main - close if not true I said you were angry - clearly true

You attacked my rank, and champ selection choice. Sack up.

Cosmic WarperMar 13, 20177 votes

She's not supposed to be viable mid. Anyone who thinks that lulu should be viable in a sololane has never experienced the cancer that was s4 lulu top and mid

Thief of SpaceMar 13, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cosmic Warper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MMKEPZQ2,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2017-03-13T21:05:39.680+0000)

She's not supposed to be viable mid. Anyone who thinks that lulu should be viable in a sololane has never experienced the cancer that was s4 lulu top and mid

Remember Ryze Top in season 4? even more fun to deal with than Lulu sometimes.

Cosmic WarperMar 13, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Thief of Space,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MMKEPZQ2,comment-id=000d0001,timestamp=2017-03-13T21:15:08.835+0000)

Remember Top in season 4? even more fun to deal with than Lulu sometimes.

when those two were meta top/mid laners.... that shit made me want to never play top or mid. Laning phase was complete aids

Danyul TargaryenMar 13, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cosmic Warper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MMKEPZQ2,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2017-03-13T21:05:39.680+0000)

She's not supposed to be viable mid. Anyone who thinks that lulu should be viable in a sololane has never experienced the cancer that was s4 lulu top and mid

why shouldnt she be? If they just balanced her around mid she would be fine but they are trying to keep both alive

Cosmic WarperMar 13, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Danyul Targaryen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MMKEPZQ2,comment-id=000d0002,timestamp=2017-03-13T21:22:44.682+0000)

why shouldnt she be? If they just balanced her around mid she would be fine but they are trying to keep both alive

no, they're not trying to keep both alive. They have been trying to kill sololane lulu for a long time now. If lulu ever gets back into a sololane and it becomes meta she will be gutted again because of how obnoxious it is to play against.

Danyul TargaryenMar 13, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cosmic Warper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MMKEPZQ2,comment-id=000d00020000,timestamp=2017-03-13T21:55:19.689+0000)

no, they're not trying to keep both alive. They have been trying to kill sololane lulu for a long time now. If lulu ever gets back into a sololane and it becomes meta she will be gutted again because of how obnoxious it is to play against.

yes they are they said it in the last buff they did. Riot doesnt give a fuck if a champ is annoying to lane against. Yasuo AS Long a they arent out of line nd mid lane lulu can be that

xeviMar 14, 20171 votes

lulu isnt just obnoxious in a solo lane. she's completely unfair as she still bring utility when behind. Enchanters simply cannot be part of a solo lane as long as the enchanter subclass is the high utility mage role. They become obnoxious with their waveclear, shields, heals, and cc and don't fall off if they're behind since they still provide utility.

When you play Yasuo or Jayce , you run the risk of being useless since you're squishy and deal next to no damage if you don't get an early advantage and go 0/3 in the laning phase. With Lulu , you still become relevant due to your utility.

Sire HippingtonMar 13, 20173 votes

Honsetly, as a top main since S2, i don't think that's a valid reasoning. Sure, lol was pretty annoying to deal with, but so is every damn ranged champ that is used top. I actually prefered faceing lulu vastly comapred to Jayce or Quinn, or kennen, or gnar...hell, even rumble and ilaoi are way worse to face in many matchups....

xeviMar 13, 20173 votes

the difference is jayce/quinn fall off and dont have the utility to remain somewhat useful when 0/10. lulu does.

RookPusherMar 15, 20171 votes

Isn't that the benefit of utility? It has a downside. When your ADC is mauling people, and slow farming and you're bored to tears. You also get nuked in team fights.

xeviMar 16, 20171 votes

Remember that we're talking about solo lane enchanters. Enchanters are supposed to provide utility to the team with a minimal to medium amount of damage. Being able to solo lane (mid especially) implies you have the damage to waveclear/get kills/what not. This pretty much means that champions intended for the solo lane are screwed over by this.

Let's take an 0/4 Viktor and 0/4 Lulu . Viktor doesn't bring much utility to his team aside from his w and lacks damage to be of much significance (since he's behind) and is pretty much useless. Lulu however has the utility to be useful although behind and is not useless despite being 0/10.

Now let's say both are 4/0. Viktor has the damage to be very useful in teamfights and pretty much wins teamfights as long as his team peels for him. On the other hand, as per the implications of an enchanter being able to solo lane, a 4/0 Lulu will also have the damage to be very useful in teamfights while also being able to peel for herself and others.

Although a 4/0 Lulu probably will not provide as much damage as the 4/0 Viktor , she still removes the risk factor of losing lane and becoming useless due to the utility she provides (on top of being fairly hard to lane against because of the shields, waveclear, and cc). Additionally, she isn't super severely out damaged by Viktor (once again to the implications of a solo lane enchanter).

TL;DR: Solo lane enchanters being meta (or strong) means they'll provide just a little less damage than their utility-less counterparts while being safer and less riskier to play due to the utility they provide.

Thief of SpaceMar 13, 20174 votes

Meanwhile Jayce LeeSin and Fiora are having their time of their life while Azir Shen Sejuani arent allowed to have fun without getting gutted immediately. Rito Favoritism strikes back if Lulu gets nerfed for existing in the lcs.

Laxfan52Mar 13, 20175 votes

To be fair, azir needs a small scale rework because he has too much power late game with too much range.

RainXBladeMar 14, 20173 votes

Azir used to be really insane to where he could push towers faster than ppl could teleport to defend them. Coupled up with the fact that his ult's wall had a very long duration and that it granted movement speed back then and his base damages we're really high, well yup. Azir at his prime was way harder to fight against than release Camille or Yasuo.

Apollo JeticMar 13, 20173 votes

Don't worry, Jhin has been meta since his release, Riot can't nerf pro faves

kappa :^)

SkorchMar 13, 20177 votes

Depending on where you look Jhins playrate (While still high) Plummeted by 10% with the DFT nerfs, and hes now sitting on 50-47% winrate

MissingKayoMar 13, 20172 votes

Meta isn't necessarily OP though. And LCS pick meta and non-competitive pick meta is extremely different.

Athenes LuluMar 13, 20173 votes

She has one of the highest winrates as support in champion.gg this patch because people just braindead max E and pretend to be "a better version of Janna".

If that's some more information that you should be aware of...

SasogwaMar 13, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cancerous Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MMKEPZQ2,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-03-13T19:34:21.929+0000)

She has one of the highest winrates as support in champion.gg this patch because people just braindead max E and pretend to be "a better version of Janna".

If that's some more information that you should be aware of...

I don't understand, why is it pretending if she has a high winrate because of it? Also does that mean braindead max E and staying back is the best thing to do to win?

(genuinely asking here, I'm not a Lulu player)

Athenes LuluMar 13, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I don't understand, why is it pretending if she has a high winrate because of it? Also does that mean braindead max E and staying back is the best thing to do to win?

(genuinely asking here, I'm not a Lulu player)

The thing with E max is it only encourages players to blindly shield and deal damage. What interaction is there other than encouraging stat-checking "plays"?

Q max encourages much more "skill" and interaction which is to dodge it, and W max has plenty of interaction and you get rewarded for picking and choosing the right targets at the right times to click W on.

Before the buffs were delivered, Lulu players had to do more decision making with mana management so she can't just shield/poke willy-nilly. I'll try to make this as simplified as possible:

Lulu's Q got nerfed. Q max is no longer optimal, so people resorted to maxing E
E max encourages people to play her like Janna, however it is VERY mana costly. Most people completely overlooked the fact that E max = insta-mana drain, and all wondered why Lulu "sucks", "runs oom too quickly", and "needs buffs".
Riot listened, they buffed her Q.
Her Q is still nerfed, so it's still not worth maxing. Hey, did its mana cost got decreased? Even better, we can spam E EVEN MORE now!
Wait, why is she one of the top supports (high pickrate + winrate) right now?

A good reason Lulu had such high mana costs on everything despite being super spammable is to encourage players to be more wise on mana management, and so that lanes will be as little oppressive as possible. Trimming down mana costs would only destroy that purpose.

If that clears up a bit.

Sadistic VeigarMar 13, 20173 votes

But she will be. Because she's pretty fucking obnoxious as a support after her buffs.

KnoyleMar 13, 20175 votes

Zyra Malzahar obnoxious you say?

(yeah they aren't real supports but goddamnit they still get thrown Bot more than once every 500 games which is too much for my taste.)

lslandsMar 13, 20171 votes

well after their reworks they cant mid either.

3TWarriorMar 14, 20171 votes

malz mid actualy has a higher winrate mid than bot

RainXBladeMar 14, 20171 votes

Yeah, "supports". What's their utility? The ability to kill the enemy ADC so that the ADC they're "supporting" with can farm? Oh wait they can't because they take the farm like all autofilled supports would.

KnoyleMar 14, 20171 votes

Believe me nothing is more annoying than seeing some douche "support" but that isn't what I was getting at.

Glory ln DeathMar 14, 20171 votes

Sion ObNoxus, you say?

MâidenMar 14, 20171 votes

When malzahar becomes pick or ban for supports and rito still hasn't looked into it, you know they don't care about bot.

But when janna was mid lane all hell broke lose and now her Q cost 20% of her mana and literally is the same mana cost as her lvl 1 ult. Rito logic.

Legacy HydralphaMar 13, 20172 votes

Shen is ready for a friend. Let them be LCS nerfed together.

Sagan ForeverMar 13, 20173 votes

Azir , Vladimir , Ryze , Shen can you be our friend?

MelledoneusMar 14, 20174 votes

Bitch he started the friend circle.

Danyul TargaryenMar 13, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Legacy Hydralpha,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MMKEPZQ2,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-03-13T19:06:29.952+0000)

is ready for a friend. Let them be LCS nerfed together.

lmaooo no shen needs to be lonely

Glory ln DeathMar 14, 20171 votes

Shen isn't Amumu. He's the one who's supposed to be ignoring you, not the other way around.