:
- AD, Sustain, CDR
- AD, Crit chance, Crit damage increase
- AD, Sustain, Sheild
- AD, MR, CC removal
Meanwhile
:
- AP, Armor, Stasis
- AP, total AP boost
So what item do you think Riot should make to make Needlessly Large Rod as versatile as BF Sword?
I'm keen to the idea of 120 AP with 15 CDR and maybe something else but I'd be fine with this.
Pika3104 votesSome Dfg users are getting compensation in kit.
... and some DFG users are getting nerfs in compensation. 
Nerfs to compensate for nerfs: Riot logic
IGotScuttleCrabs1 votesShri isn't getting fully nerfed. She's getting assassin nerfed but mage buffed.
Pika3104 votesLol, you're funny.
No, Ahri is getting blatantly nerfed all around. She's going to be a worse version of Ziggs, who's already worse than: Lux, Orianna and Xerath. Ahri is going to fall all the way to low tier 2.
balbraaksel3 votesA 120 AP item that offers 10% cooldown reduction and gives one free spell to use every 15 seconds would be nice. Maybe Riot could even throw in some movement speed, health and mana and make it the mages Trinity Force item. It'd need a decent build path though which would require even more items.
ModKnightsKemplar2 votesI don't think they want that much symmetry in items. AP mages still have things like 
, which are all viable depending on the mage and the situation. Yeah, that's fewer 120 AP items, but I'm not sure that's a huge setback.
IGotScuttleCrabs2 votesI hope to see a pick up in
It really is a great item and I personally always got it with DFG due to the active putting the full slow...
Tsunday2 votesAbyssal doesn't work on a lot of mages who have actual range, Rylai's isn't good on a lot of AoE mages because the slow is weaker, Liandry's normally works best on poke mages who need the sustainability and can apply its passive continuously. In fact all 3 of those items were in part about sustainability and I'm pretty sure unless you can use their passives none of them are gold efficient. DFG was your big burst item. It gave you CDR and a damage buff. Without it not only do mages lose a lot of max AP (because all of those items have tank stats taking up their power budgets) but they also lose another good CDR option as well as losing one of the few items a mage with bad scalings could really make use of.
I don't mind DFG leaving, but there's a lot more AP in DFG than there is in any of those options above and it filled it was all around more useful on an actual mage. DFG had what a mage needed, Damage, CDR. Those items have what a toplane mage might want, they have bruiser mage stats. They aren't often midlane items, which is what the DFG is. There is definite reason to make a new NLR item.
IGotScuttleCrabs2 votesIn all fairness Rylais has 100 ap which is just barely shy of 120. Only probably is that 120 item might have well been 240 because of its insane burst potential.
I really feel we need a new big item with cdr to justify the lose of dfg. Either that or make the other CD items a little more appealing because most will agree that 
are more suited for a support or utility Mage. Not your nuker champ. And 
is very niche.
ModKnightsKemplar1 votesAgreed with your criticism on the others. I just can't think of many champions that can't just default to deathcap and be just fine after this change. I don't see anyone that it's a real problem for. Yeah, less burst, but not detrimental to anyone's build. Please, correct me if I'm wrong. I'd be more convinced by specific examples of champions that needed that item.
Tsunday2 votesI honestly did not remember they changed that. I'm a 100% botlane main. I played over 75% of my games as support last season and I think over 90% in botlane overall. I played a lot of midlane back in preseason 4 so before they changed the Rylai's AP.
I still don't think it's a item that synergizes well with most of the champions who bought DFG though so I still see reason for another Needlessly item or two.
ModKnightsKemplar2 votesI see your point. Kind of. If all DFG is supposed to be is damage, then why isn't Rabadon's good enough? Yeah, no CDR, I hear that, but you can get CDR boots if you need it that badly, and there's still CDR on the mana regen items. I just don't feel like there's an actual hole in itemization because DFG left. The active was toxic for the game, I agree with it leaving, and other items can give you the other stats. Maybe another big AP item with CDR would be nice, but I'm not bothered by not having DFG. It's still very viable to build rabadon's and hourglass if you need the AP, and there's a CDR boots option if you need CDR that badly.
I guess I just can't think of any champions that can't get what they wanted from DFG pretty easily elsewhere, except the burst.
Tsunday1 votesDFG worked on AP champs that didn't build much AP. Some of them scaled better with MPen but the CDR and burst on a high AP item made it a worthy buy on AP champs that don't scale well with AP. Rabadon's boosts other AP items so if you're not building a lot of other AP items then you aren't getting much use out of it. I feel like the real hole is that there are only 2 NLR items which lowers the total AP for mages.
and there's a CDR boots option
the champions that used DFG who won't benefit as much from DCap are the same ones who want pen on their boots.
As a support main I absolutely cry at the idea of Lucidity.
ModKnightsKemplar1 votesI'm not following your argument at all... sorry.
So, we need an item with AP and CDR, but people who built DFG didn't need AP? Why do we need that item, then?
You have champions that you are buying DFG, Rabadon's, AND DFG on? Holy crap. I have done that only once, and it was because I was 12/0 as Katarina. Never have I seen another game where that was a good idea.
Also, who brought supports into this discussion? Are you suggesting that supports were building DFG? That they need some kind of compensation? That makes no sense to me.
Tsunday1 votesI said champions that don't build much AP. For a champion that only builds 1 or 2 AP items DCap isn't useful, whereas an AP item that offered stats like CDR or something like the ERs mana on hit would be more appropriate for Champions that only build 1 or 2 AP items.
It doesn't happen often because it'd have to be a champion that could utilize all three but yeah I've seen the 3 NLR items with a Chalice or Morello, Sorcs, and Void Staff.
And I said I cry over offering Lucidity for your CDR because being a support main I know those boots are pretty much a noob trap. They work well on a couple of champions but most champions are wasting stats by building lucidity.
Knight SoIaire 1 votesalso dont forget that adcs are only about the dmg ' mages pack up some utility so they cant be just granted insane stats
Zahz1 votesim worried ap is taking to hard of a hit from losing dfg. The cdr items arent really that great in order to get max cdr which is pretty important since mages and ap assassins become largely useless if they dont have spells to fling. Leblanc for example is pretty useless outside of taking down a single target and then hauling her butt outta the fight before they entire team deletes her. She cant really split push or provide any kind fo hard cc. She can slow one guy down or 2 if u use her ult on it but again she has to be so close they will just make her go poof
Sailor Mint1 votesThere are over 40 champions with a strong incentive to build AP.
Out of those 40 champions, 3 champions built it in more than half their games and 3 more built it more than a third of the time. Just like you don't want to compensate champions who didn't rely on DFG, you also need to be careful to not overcompensate champions that didn't care about it.
| # | Champion | Popularity |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Ahri | 72.3% |
| 2 | Veigar | 61.6% |
| 3 | LeBlanc | 55.4% |
| 4 | Katarina | 43.7% |
| 5 | Syndra | 42.4% |
| 6 | Annie | 34.9% |
| 7 | Fizz | 26.0% |
| 8 | Mordekaiser | 18.2% |
| 9 | Twisted Fate | 14.9% |
| 10 | Diana | 14.7% |
| 11 | Heimerdinger | 12.9% |
| 12 | Malzahar | 9.1% |
| 13 | Lissandra | 8.2% |
| 14 | Malphite | ?% |
| 15 | Tristana | ?% |
Based on lolking item popularity data,
IGotScuttleCrabs2 votesI'm surprised Mord is only 18%.
But this isn't a RIP DFG thread. More of a what will relatively replace its spot. Obviously the active had to go but the rest of the item could have stayed and gotten a little love and been just as welcome whether through more cdr or even a price decrease.
Sukishoo1 votesA 50 AD Item that builds into 4, 80 AD items
vs
An 80 AP item that used to build into 3 items that gave 120AP.
Yeah I don't think they need to make that anywhere near as versatile or then there'd be too many high AP items, cause honestly NO ONE needs that much AP. The already enhances AP gathered from other items, so you'd be enhancing 3 other items and that'd get to be ALOT of AP if anyone build them all.
IGotScuttleCrabs1 votesDifference between the 50 ad vs 80 ap and reason most ad champ max at 400 vs ap maxing close to 800 is that ad champs tend to have much MUCH higher constant dps. If jinx had a constant 800 ad vs a ziggs with burst 400 ad, well you know why that wouldn't work.
Duke Anax1 votesI'm game. I think more options wouldn't hurt, we have defense and AP boost, how about some sustain?
Essling Rod
+ 
+ 
+ 140g = 3200
120 AP 10% CDR 100% BMR
Unique Passive: Each time a spell is cast nearby, Essling Rod draws energy from it and returns it as mana.
Unique Active: Essling Rod is planted at target position (150 range), disabling the passive, but capturing passing spells. When the collected energy exceeds capacicity, or the Rod is destroyed, the energy is released dealing damage in the area.
I somehow came about the name by combining "essence" and "lightning rod" The active needs some detailing. But you get the idea.
Voodoo Staff
+ 500g = 3300g
120AP 15% spellvamp
Unique Passive: Voodoo Staff will charge for 20% of any healing done (spells, lifesteal, spellvamp)
Unique Active - Voodoo Do : The charge is drained to heal target champion for the same amount. If the charge exceeds 50% base health of the tarrget, it can be cast on a corpse, reviving them with health equal to the remaining charge.
Too OP? Note that reviving drains charge without healing. Also the charge ratio is equal to using Spirit Visage. The revive ratio can be adjusted so that it isn't too available.