Fixing Swain's Healing: One Idea for the Rework

ModKnightsKemplar··1 votes·373 views

Swain’s healing is the most obvious contention about his current kit. It allows him to turn into a raid boss under the right conditions; that’s fun for the player, but it’s not fun for the opponents unless there’s some kind of counterplay. I want to make a proposal for his rework that gives it that counterplay.

Let me start by just giving you the idea, and then I’ll lead you through the thought process that led me to it so we can discuss it.

Swain siphons the life force out of his opponents and gets a % of his health and mana back when he gets a kill or assist. The % scales with level, not with AP. This would not apply to minion kills (Swain cannot heal from minions anymore).

Swain’s healing is pretty integral to his kit, so I don’t want it removed. Instead, I want it balanced around clear success and failure cases. Right now, Swain presses R, and Swain heals. I think this ability needs counterplay by allowing the opponent to kill Swain before he can heal. This gives a bigger swing between the success and failure cases with Swain’s ult. It also removes the weird interaction Swain has with enemy minion waves, since fighting in the wave is actually good for Swain, while it’s bad for almost every other champ in the game.

My opinion is that his passive is the perfect place to put this. Using dark magic to siphon life force out of dead enemies is still pretty in line with Swain’s current kit, and his passive already restores mana. We’re getting rid of the “Dangerous Game” mastery, so let’s put it in Swain’s kit, instead, eh?!

This way, Swain would have to kill enemies to get that sweet, sweet nectar of life. This allows it to be countered by things like shields. And living. I would also propose that we remove the AP scaling to limit, but not eliminate, snowball from that part of his kit. I would start at 2% per level for champs. I would not give it back on minion kills. This could also be scaled more like Garen passive, instead of linear with every level, if that works better. I’m more interested in the overall design philosophy of “health back on kills” than I am in the nuts and bolts; you can increase or decrease the % or change the scaling as necessary to balance it if the idea is good.

Let’s look at an example for why I think this is a good idea. We’ll look at two Swains; the current one, with no changes, and the “new” one I propose here. For the purposes of this discussion, let’s just say he has the new passive and no healing on his ult anymore. This will allow us to thought experiment the design with as little complication as possible. Let’s assume both teams are roughly equally competent, as well. Things obviously change when one team is much better than the other.

Right now, when I play Swain (I play him mid a lot), a common strategy is to press R and run at the enemy marksman into the middle of their team. I typically do this after landing a sick W, which roots them. I lose most of my health on the advance. BUT that’s okay, because I have Zhonya’s Hourglass. I press “2”, but this is where the story diverges for the old and new passives.

With old passive, I sit there and drain their entire team for dayz; meanwhile, my team advances (if they aren’t scrubs) and do some cleanup while I heal, and when I come out, I can help mop up whoever isn’t dead already. Even if my team leaves me hanging and the enemy marksman doesn’t die, I come out of hourglass healthy and they have to waste more cool downs and attacks on me to keep me from healing to full and escaping. Even if I botch my engage, it costs the enemy team quite a bit to kill me, so my team can sometimes still win the ensuing fight. The success case, where I kill the enemy marksman, and the failure case, where I don’t, are only slightly different (provided I have competent teammates).

With this new passive, things can be very different. If I kill the enemy marksman, it’s all good, and plays out much the same way. That’s good and healthy; if you can’t protect your marksman from Swain, you should probably lose that fight. But, in this case, if I don’t kill the enemy marksman, I get no heals (remember, no heals from ult here). This means that I will die quickly when my hourglass timer runs out, and the other team can continue on in the 4v5 with little penalty from my botched engage. That’s how it should be.

I know that Swain will get reworked in other parts of his kit, of course. The point here is to brainstorm a healthier way to express the “spellvamp” fantasy that Swain has; it’s something that we players love about him, and I think many of us would love to keep it if possible. It’s also a relatively pretty unique passive, which is a bonus.

Anyway, please chime in! Swain mains, what do you think? Swain haters, would that be a better version of Swain? Riot, did you already playtest this and it’s terrible? If I'm wrong, let's talk about why I'm wrong, and see what we learn.

10 Comments

Infernape1 votes

So give him Cho's passive?

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Edit: thought you were talking about feast. Yeah, I guess Cho does have that passive. Interesting

jwebb01131 votes

well he is a slow to ramp up champ who is a monster mid game... and being a dps mage who is close range and immobile being able to heal while using his ult. which the duration of his ult is directly related to mana pool and regen of mana... and so his healing is conditional with his ult and mana resources. and there are already items in game that reduce healing. if you are worried about swain raiding you with his ult and healing and not dying... then you arent locking him down with cc or using healing reduction , grievous wounds or ignite vs him. for him to do majority of his damage he has to be up in the faces of the enemy exposing him to damage, cc and focus of the enemy

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Current Swain is balanced. But that's not the same as being healthy; I think the fact that this game even has grievous wounds is an indication that healing isn't properly tuned to be healthy.

I'm not often worried about anything of Swain's; I'm typically the one playing him. I'm making observations about unhealthy playstyles as a Swain player here.

GW counter him, but I think if they would tune healing right, they could do away with GW altogether and the game would be better off for it. As far as mana goes, that's not a real limitation, imo. Yes, you do run out if you use it improperly, but like I noted in this example, mana isn't an issue. I would run out, then my team would mop up, we take a tower or two and I back. Mana doesn't factor into any of those decisions significantly, so I don't think it's a practical limit on Swain's power.

jwebb01131 votes

you yourself said he is balanced.

there are all kinds of conditions in which is healing is effective.

alot of champs have healing or hp resources that grievous wounds helps against

its just like how armor helps vs physical damage and mr helps vs magic damage

so if there is counter play and he is balanced and his power in his ult/healing is conditional

then how is he not healthy or consider toxic

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Health and balance are not the same.


Consider a hypothetical champ named Badchamp. That champ has a passive that reads "when the game starts, Badchamp has a 50% chance to instantly win the game. If he does not win the game, he loses the game."

Badchamp is balanced. Badchamp has exactly 50% win rate. The picture of balance. No champ, actually, could ever possibly hope to be more balanced than Badchamp, since Badchamp's kit guarantees a 50% win rate when averaged over enough games.

However, Badchamp takes no skill to play and has absolutely no counterplay at all. There is absolutely nothing that either team can do to effect the game when Badchamp is picked.


Swain can be balanced and unhealthy at the same time. He doesn't have to be as extreme as Badchamp for that to be true. His healing provides lop-sided, snowbally gameplay that many players find frustrating. I love him as a champ, as I said, but I'm not defending him as the picture of game health. There are problems with his kit; that's why he's getting the rework to begin with.

I'm happy to discuss the nuances with you, but I don't think the starting point for that discussion is "Swain is fine." He's pretty clearly not. The community at large has a pretty solid consensus on that, and the reason is his healing. Champs that heal when they deal damage are frustrating, which is why I provided an alternative to that.

jwebb01131 votes

lol

so swain has no counter play? and takes no skill to play

champs that heal with they do damage is bad

then all adcs?

darius?

warwick?

nasus

hmm all of these champs unhealthy too ?

Titanium701 votes

Sorry, but what i read into your suggestion:

You create a massive snowballing champion that can't do ANYTHING when behind. This would backfire so hard! x'D

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

That is the biggest danger, for sure. I would hope that the rest of his kit would give him tools to deal with being behind, though. It isn't as though just his passive has to be responsible for that.

Titanium701 votes

Well.. you basicly created a passive that activates on Kill - that in it selfe leads to snowball. There are very view examples that actually work out.

The only example that comes to my mind is similar to your example, Trundle . And this one only works since he works different is does not reli on his heal - unlike certain others. ^^

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