Riot why do you avoid talking about Bruisers?

IsIsGankedParis·Jan 30, 2015·2 votes·554 views

We haven't had much discussion or anything done on them besides nerfing Bruisers and Tank items.

Renekton was in a sense the "king of top lane" then got his items nerfed, his ult nerfed.

Riot then said they were going to buff laners to Renekton's level.

They buff Jarvan and Rumble then are never heard from again.

Why aren't Bruisers that actually NEED help being buffed? Why do the likes of Darius, Garen, Olaf, etc., have to suffer for so long now?

Why do the immobile Bruisers have less damage than some other champions that have insane mobility along with sustain?

When will Bruisers be talked about again, because we are getting pissed off that Bruisers without a ton of gap closers and insane sustain can't be viable.

5 Comments

SmokingPuffinJan 30, 20153 votes

The basic problem is that bruisers are mostly unhealthy designs. They mostly win by having more stats than the other guy. That's why top lane has historically been a lane decided by first blood.

The classical bruiser kit of targeted gap closer, high base damages, and stickiness is a really linear thing. Very little outplay potential. Basically, I would argue that every one of these kits (examples: Irelia Renekton Shyvana Fiora Jax ...) needs a rework.

Notice that bruisers that don't have this sort of pattern, like say LeeSin JarvanIV , are quite well loved by Riot. It's not that Riot dislikes the idea of tanky melee dps, it's that Riot regrets the kit designs they made in the XinZhao era.

TheDuelist999Jan 30, 20151 votes

I don't get why people say this like it's unique to top lane champions obviously if i go back to bot lane with a pick axe when my opponent has a bf sword I'm going to get bullied by my opponent. Now obviously that edge isnt as strong since there is another player to factor in. In mid lane my opponet come back with a nlr vs my bw his spells are going to hurt more.

TehNACHOJan 30, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Now obviously that edge isnt as strong since there is another player to factor in.

That's the point.

Bot lane's dynamics are like 50% support player, 50% synergy between support and ADC. You don't win by (just) having the stronger ADC, but (especially during the early game while supports are clearly much stronger than the ADC they are standing next to) playing around the unique characteristics Supports bring to bot. Raw power and stat checks is not the determining factor.

{quoted} In mid lane my opponet come back with a nlr vs my bw his spells are going to hurt more.

Well, yeah, that's a much more defined point. At the same time though, in a fight between two mages, there tends to be a lot more skill shots and AOE effects that you can actively dodge and play around. In a fight with an Assassin, there's a lot of ability canceling that comes into play (well timed Shunpos, for example). It's so much more entirely possible to turn around a bad mid lane if you play to your skills. While yes raw stats tend to win here too, there's still so much more grounds for victory than a simple stat check like two bruisers would probably revolve around in top.

SmokingPuffinJan 30, 20151 votes

First blood gives an advantage in every lane, obviously. However, first blood only reliably decides top lane. If Jax is ahead of Irelia, there is no sequence of plays that leads her to win a 1v1 fight. The same is not true of a mid lane matchup between Orianna and Syndra, or between Ahri and Zed.

Comeback potential is based on kits. Most of what a bruiser does involves getting into melee range and then dealing sustained damage. Very little of what classical bruisers do is avoidable or surprising. You don't outplay Shyvana, and she doesn't outplay you. As a result, bruiser kits are stat-centric -- if the other guy does more sustained damage than you, there's just no way for you to overcome that disadvantage.

When a mage is ahead of another mage, it's possible to outplay them to get the advantage back. You can make them miss their skillshots. You can exploit your different range profile to put down free damage. You can act like you're roaming bot, then catch them at the brush when they follow. None of these moves are available in a classical bruiser versus bruiser battle top.

Only Play DariusJan 30, 20151 votes

Nothing like a hyper mobile enemy escaping you because they can dash through a wall. You know it's over the moment you see them start running towards a wall. You can burn flash and chase them, although in the end they win because you used a 250sec cooldown spell to chase after a champ that used a 20sec cooldown ability.