Why are Lee and Kha getting random buffs?

Monstermushmush·Jul 26, 2019·50 votes·14,701 views

There's legitimately no reason for them to get buffed. They aren't weak champions. One could argue that Lee is stronger than most, but all I know for sure is that they don't need these buffs.

55 Comments

Jennifer420Jul 27, 201930 votes

lee ALWAYS gets buffed before worlds. EVERY SINGLE TIME

which imo would be fine, if the worlds patch would be for worlds servers only.

Blue Moon WolfJul 26, 201926 votes

Worlds. Need to get them in peak LC$ condition.

hoganftwJul 26, 201918 votes

Riot wants them in the meta for more views

Death by GlamourJul 26, 20197 votes

Lee is fun to watch but kha and rengar? Would rather watch Maokai and DrMundo slap eachother around in toplane

Voluug13Jul 26, 201925 votes

Lee ''outplaying'' an Ashe by doing the most repetitive play ever isnt fun anymore.

General Esdeath Jul 26, 201923 votes

{quoted}

Lee ''outplaying'' an Ashe by doing the most repetitive play ever isnt fun anymore.

Dude didn't you see that? He hopped to a ward and landed his ultimate skill shot and then landed a nice skill shot on the Ashe that can't move. He must be the best player ever.

nm1010Jul 27, 20193 votes

He ward hopped then used his totally fair "R roots the opponent on cast but not me for some reason" flash play that requires much skill.

General Esdeath Jul 27, 20192 votes

{quoted}

He ward hopped then used his totally fair "R roots the opponent on cast but not me for some reason" flash play that requires much skill.

Really makes me wanna sit through 30 minutes of commentary and memes and then 20 minutes of farming just for that one play, and now I want to watch ads and buy skins and team passes!

Death by GlamourJul 26, 201910 votes

tbf he doesn't even use the ult to kick people into his team anymore, just uses it as an execute

its kinda sad

Voluug13Jul 27, 20191 votes

Thats because Lee can now build full damage and not be punished for it. He doesnt fall off against anything that isnt tanks or juggernauts.

Baby GhoulJul 26, 201916 votes

I wish Riot would explain those buffs in particular because nobody was asking for them.

Lee Sin is the most played jungler right now and the second most played champion overall.

General Esdeath Jul 26, 201910 votes

[{quoted}](name=Baby Ghoul,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MEojUBaA,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-07-26T23:05:26.699+0000)

I wish Riot would explain those buffs in particular because nobody was asking for them.

Lee Sin is the most played jungler right now and the second most played champion overall.

I'm sure when the patch notes drop we'll get some well detailed and complex explanation as to why these changes were made

LC$

ProExpertKingJul 27, 20191 votes

Lucky for you, I made my own comment where I list out what Riot looks at when buffing/nerfing a champion and then gave a little reason why the probably did it. Upvote it please so people can see it.

AlterMordredJul 26, 20197 votes

dArK StAr lEe sIn is on its way!

MorbysJul 26, 20196 votes

You're complaining about 5-10 dmg increase on his Q? GTFO of here.

General Esdeath Jul 26, 201912 votes

{quoted}

You're complaining about 5-10 dmg increase on his Q? GTFO of here.

10 damage adds up when you're farming in the jungle, and when you're fighting tanky champs. I've had a lot of times where I survive with 20-50 HP, and this change would prevent me from winning.

ZephyrDrakeJul 27, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=General Esdeath ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MEojUBaA,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-07-26T23:56:01.606+0000)

10 damage adds up when you're farming in the jungle, and when you're fighting tanky champs. I've had a lot of times where I survive with 20-50 HP, and this change would prevent me from winning.

Guess we shouldn't buff anything then since someone out there survived with 5 hp from some random ability.

General Esdeath Jul 27, 20195 votes

{quoted}

Guess we shouldn't buff anything then since someone out there survived with 5 hp from some random ability.

No, we shouldn't just be buffing champions because we feel like they haven't been buffed in a while. Both these champions are fine and seeing plenty of play already.

ProExpertKingJul 27, 20191 votes

I made a big big comment explaining roughly why I think they are getting buff with a bit of a TL;DR at the bottom of it that might help out why they are seeing buffs.

PopcornBunniJul 27, 20196 votes

Is it really worlds time already?

DeusVultJul 27, 20195 votes

The patch that they use for worlds is locked in months in advance so teams can practice what champs and comps they are going to use without having to adjust to further patches.

So the "worlds" patch should be 2 patches from now, or 9.16

meanwhile when Worlds is actually happening, the rest of us will be on 9.19 or 9.20

I cant really see a reason to buff lee (who is a good champ in pro play atm) or Kha (who has a large number of high elo OTPs) other then trying to move them more into the spotlight of pro play.

ATM the pro tier junglers are Sejuani (very conistent, High CC, high tankiness) JarvanIV (lots of engage+ early damage) and Sylas (although he just got nerfed) LeeSin Olaf Skarner Gragas RekSai are all honorable mentions, but not top tier atm. Kha doesnt get attention because he brings 0 utility (W evolve is ok, but its not why you pick him) and pro junglers dont get as much gold as soloQ heroes, which means Kha cant hop his way to victory

Hayaishi2Jul 26, 20195 votes

This game's balance is a joke.

NaalithJul 27, 20195 votes

Jesus Christ. I'm so GOD DAMN tired of Lee Sin being in almost every single game I've played for the last 7 years of this game since he released. Yeah there's been pockets of time where he drops off because something else in the jungle is super OP, but he always crawls his way back. He's been nearly omnipresent for like, 3 seasons as well. Give it a rest, Riot. He's already such an oppressive pick with his early game that allows him to duel other jungles and gank nonstop, he doesn't need any buffs.

In the past Riot nerfed champions like Xerath and Poppy to the ground because they were in too many games and were annoying. In season 5 or 6 when Sejuani was reworked they gutted her and said "we know she's underpowered but she's been meta all season so we're going to leave her for a while to give players a break." For some stupid ass reason Yasuo, Ezreal, and granddad Lee Sin can't just go for a few months. It's so fatiguing playing against these same champions over and over, and Lee Sin is borderline OP right now I have no clue why they would push him like this.

KrypticBeingJul 29, 20191 votes

Ok but compare yasuo gameplay to sejuania residentsleeper gameplay. I can agree with ez and lee. Lee is too easy to play and ez dmg is just really disgusting. But with yasuo if u cc him he dies unless he is 20/0

ProExpertKingJul 27, 20193 votes

Ok so first let me layout how Riot does things according to a blog post linked here https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2019/07/dev-life-of-a-patch/

ABR = Approved Ban Rate which is ~7% Conditions in *Bold are Buffs while Italics are nerfs

Level of Play

Nerf if ANY are true

Buff if ALL are true

Average

Gold1 and below

>54.5% win rate while ban rate is below the ABR

>52.5% win rate while ban rate is above 5x the ABR

<49% win rate

Skilled

Plat4 to Grandmaster

>54% win rate while ban rate is below the ABR

>52% win rate while ban rate is above 5x the ABR

<49% win rate

Elite

Challenger

>45% ban rate

<5% presence

Pro

Top 5 Pro Regions

>90% presence on current patch

>80% average presence across 2 consecutive patches

<5% presence

Kha'zix had been relatively stable at just slightly above 50% winrate before taking a sudden nose dive for no concernable reason. Lee Sin on the other hand has been struggling at a 48% winrate for a while now which might not be due to item or counter changes so they result in buffing him.

Summoner SpeIIJul 27, 20193 votes

kha is pretty dog shit after his R evolution nerf tbh, outclassed hard by champs like reksai, lee on the other hand isn't weak but still gets hard outclassed by some junglers early game, also his voice change is a nerf too (KAPPA)

Tahminatrix Jul 26, 20192 votes

I think this is what riot thought we meant when we asked for season 7 to come back.

iiGazeiiJul 26, 20192 votes

Obviously what this means is that they're gonna be Star Guardians.

Livin like RivenJul 27, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Obviously what this means is that they're gonna be Star Guardians.

Honestly, a Star Guardian Kha'Zix that evolved and got different parts of the uniform would be pretty funny.

ProExpertKingJul 27, 20191 votes

I doubt star guardian Kha'zix would be a thing. More likely Void Bringer Kha'zix or whatever they decide to call what you fought in the Star Guardian game mode.

Livin like RivenJul 27, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I doubt star guardian Kha'zix would be a thing. More likely Void Bringer Kha'zix or whatever they decide to call what you fought in the Star Guardian game mode.

Yeah, I doubt it too, I was just saying it'd be funny to see. Like instead of wings he just gets a twin-tailed ribbon. And his stealth upgrade could just make him blush, so you know he's shy and wants to go hide.

SweedishGunnerJul 27, 20192 votes

Either for Worlds or the random champion buff generator landed on them.

Same kinda reason Cass got buffed and immediately hotfixed...no reason.

VelasanJul 27, 20192 votes

Lee will probably never be meta again unless they break him. There are too many other bruisers to compete with. He isn't the only strong champ at lvl 3 anymore.

Elise (who has always been his counter) is still strong right now. Then you have Graves and Warwick and Volibear and several other bruisers who can fight him early. Then you have tanks that he has a hard time dealing with like Sejuani. Plus Poppy is getting buffed and she just makes Lee Sin useless.

They would need to over buff him or break his kit just to put him back in the meta. What bothers me is that they seem content to do this. Sure would be nice if when one of the champions I like to play wasn't meta they would go break their kit for me to make them relevant again!

Crescent DuskJul 27, 20191 votes

It's a total joke.

Lee Sin is already oppressive as fuck early. It's like they want to make a second Rek'sai that they have to nerf the next patch.

ProExpertKingJul 27, 20191 votes

According to most LoL stat sites, he's sitting at ~48% winrate which is under the 49% winrate threshold to warrent a buff. He's also been at that state for a few patches in a row so I think it's about due.

Crescent DuskJul 27, 20191 votes

{quoted}

According to most LoL stat sites, he's sitting at ~48% winrate which is under the 49% winrate threshold to warrent a buff. He's also been at that state for a few patches in a row so I think it's about due.

lol, and meanwhile Akali and Ryze have particularly bad win rates and don't merit any buffs.

ProExpertKingJul 27, 20191 votes

They have been getting change after change after change cause they are oppressive in high elo and dead weight in low elo. Pretty sure they have a blog post about it.

Crescent DuskJul 28, 20191 votes

{quoted}

They have been getting change after change after change cause they are oppressive in high elo and dead weight in low elo. Pretty sure they have a blog post about it.

Right, but the point is champions ought to be balanced where they are played well. Otherwise the likes of Aatrox and Kalista and Syndra would be permanently meta due to being more difficult to pull off by lower elo but being oppressive in high elo.

You playing a hard champion doesn't mean their potential ought to eclipse the competition to make up for poor play by lower elos. It is up to the low elo one trick to improve their mechanics if they want to play mechanically intensive champions.

ProExpertKingJul 28, 20191 votes

Kalista (currently which is why she hasn't gotten a nerf in a while) and Syndra aren't oppressive in higher elo and you just made a massive misstep Wanna know why Aatrox just got a huge change? They removed his revive on ult and replaced it with an increase in healing from physical damage against champions. That's to make the champion easier to use in lower elo because you can just mindlessly run into a 1v5 like how most people play him in soloq and actually survive maybe while pro players stop getting that revive all the time and winning every 1v2 or 1v3 every single game. You can't have to constant LCS winning because they got Aatrox and he's pretty much two people in one champ while everyone else has to sigh in pain because some dumbass top laner picked Aatrox because the pros do and just feed, making the game unfun for everyone involved.

Crescent DuskJul 28, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Kalista (currently which is why she hasn't gotten a nerf in a while) and Syndra aren't oppressive in higher elo and you just made a massive misstep Wanna know why Aatrox just got a huge change? They removed his revive on ult and replaced it with an increase in healing from physical damage against champions. That's to make the champion easier to use in lower elo because you can just mindlessly run into a 1v5 like how most people play him in soloq and actually survive maybe while pro players stop getting that revive all the time and winning every 1v2 or 1v3 every single game. You can't have to constant LCS winning because they got Aatrox and he's pretty much two people in one champ while everyone else has to sigh in pain because some dumbass top laner picked Aatrox because the pros do and just feed, making the game unfun for everyone involved.

It was a 10% healing buff in a game where most people against Aatrox take Grievous Wounds. It's a massive nerf to him and he's been a headache to balance since they've tried to make him usable by low elo despite his oppressive performance in high elo.

Kalista is not oppressive in elo because she's NERFED and purposely kept irrelevant. Syndra in high elo is pretty much constant pro pick for a reason; she's one of the signature lane bullies, yet in low elo she sucks because people can't play her.

ProExpertKingJul 28, 20191 votes

Syndra is picked much more often but is anywhere but a constant pick unless you mean constant as in she's actually decently played and well liked by pro players, kinda like Orianna as well. Rumble is also one of the signature lane bullies that higher elo players play but lower elo players normally feed on but just like Syndra, she's not a pick or ban champion so isn't oppressive. Not like the Urgot Aatrox top lane every single game from before. Rek'sai is another good example of good in higher elo and bad in lower elo. Wanna know what though? There are champions that are the other way around. Garen, Yi, Amumu are so simple that they dominate lower elo while being completely useless in higher elo. Why do you think they've been changed to have a bit more going on to them? Garen having the whole villian mechanic, Yi having his alpha strike changed, Amumu having his passive reworked where instead of reducing mr, it will apply bonus true damage from any magic damage while his ult now applies his passive to all enemies hit. It was all to make these champs more viable in higher levels of play. Now if you have lots of high aoe magic damage, Amumu is such a great champion because of that insane amount of true damage you will be doing. Got a swain top and Anivia mid? You better believe you wanna get amumu for that fucking stupid amounts of true damage from a good ult. Added so much more value to team play and existing abilities that weren't changed much. They are still just about never played by anyone in really high elo but it does help lower elo players who attach to these types of champs to start thinking about stuff like that.

KrypticBeingJul 29, 20191 votes

Ryze fluctuates a lot mostly cuz people dont know how to play.

InfernapeJul 27, 20191 votes

Forcing their appearances at Worlds in November.

ColteJul 27, 20191 votes

tencent plays lee and kha [sg-ahri-1]

YaraUwUJul 27, 20191 votes

New skins probably.

Sodeb LacudomiteJul 27, 20191 votes

And why is Rumble getting random nerf? Isn't he pretty weak atm?

ProExpertKingJul 27, 20191 votes

according to op.gg, he's been kinda strong the past few patches but is probably horrendous to deal with in pro play. He's probably either a pick or ban in high elo which is what results in nerfs

iTaLenTZJul 28, 20191 votes

Because its that time of the year again

TotalJerkJul 28, 20191 votes

That Lee buff is actually a joke, tbh. The spent years balancing Lee around ward-hopping, then gutted warding to the point where he has to spend a cooldown higher than most ultimates to utilize it. Now they are trying to balance him around a world where ward-hopping is barely a thing.

InfernapeJul 28, 20191 votes

{quoted}

That Lee buff is actually a joke, tbh. The spent years balancing Lee around ward-hopping, then gutted warding to the point where he has to spend a cooldown higher than most ultimates to utilize it. Now they are trying to balance him around a world where ward-hopping is barely a thing.

Then again most Lee players (at least from what I've seen in pro play) run Ingenious Hunter anyway. It affects trinkets.