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Im gonna start taking smite top lane on AS champs

LupusNox··34 votes·19,219 views

On champs like Irelia Volibear Warwick XinZhao or Teemo , im gonna take smite top lane instead of teleport or ignite.

Why?

Because smite is the only way you can have skirmishers. And skirmishers is SUPER powerful on on-hit champs. Irelia with bonus true damage, 6 seconds of vision so that they can't weave you through the bushes and an incredible 20% damage reduction from the target, all for 750 gold. ANd then later you can upgrade it to devourers and get 40 magic damage on hit + stacks for kills and farming.

That free true damage is on a way lower CD than ignite and it gives you about the same amount of damage if you get 4-5 hits in. The only thing you don't get is the healing reduction, but the 20% damage reduction means that you win any trade, and its only on a 50 second CD.

Then, like I said, upgrade to the on-hit enchanment, and boom, tons of damage. Without their jungler just setting up a tent top lane, their is no way to lose. Plus, later in the game you have way more buff control with 2 smites for objectives, or if your jungler dies and they try a drag/baron, you still have smite to try and steal.

And 6 seconds of 20% less damage on ADC/mid in a teamfight? Fucking amazing

80 Comments

King Rei23 votes

it's this kind of talk that's going to get jungle stuff nerfed for the umfteenth time lol...

LupusNox8 votes

see, as a jungler, i too hate the fact that its going to happen, especially since the jungle is so much like the season 1 jungle that I loved, except on steroids of awesomeness, but you can't deny the fact that right now certain jungle items coughSkirmisherscough are VERY strong and can be exploited by certain people, similar to the blue ezreal with SotLE a couple of seasons ago.

OJ1912 votes

it's this kind of talk that's going to get jungle stuff nerfed for the umfteenth time lol...

then maybe they shouldn't make stuff for jungle that breaks top laners?

I don't even play top and think it's dumb

SeargentAnus1 votes

it's this kind of talk that's going to get jungle stuff nerfed for the umfteenth time lol...

Probably because the jungle stuff is overloaded in the first place >_>

JadeKnightblazer8 votes

I have seen bottom ADC grab smite to hit lvl 2 first in lane by killing golems \ frog first. Then grab challenging smite to win trades in all ins with fellow ADC. Something will have to be done like normal when jungle items start to be too good for lanes. Seems to happen every time Riot changes jungle.

Colgate Gator5 votes

The idea has some merit, but for the love of any deity you believe in, don't start machete + 2 pots.

SmokingPuffin4 votes

It's the right call. Skirmisher's much strong. Who could turn down an exhaust + surge on a 60 second cooldown? It's not like Devourer is overcosted either.

That said, expect this to be fixed in a patch, just like League of Targon's.

I do wonder if you can arrange for your top lane smiter to take a buff while your jungler does a conventional route. Something like blue side top+mid go take their red, while bot lane + jungler takes your red. Could be super depressing for the opposing top!

ProfDrDeath1 votes

Latest PBE:

Devourer now starts at 25 stacks. Skirmisher's true damage is now applied over 3 seconds.

Still, that 20% damage reduction might make the effect "worth", even if you don't do tons of true damage. And it is not like Devourer is the only useful enchantment.

Xtremey3 votes

you should see it with warwick top.

Knight Devout2 votes

Well, TP and ignite had different strategy behind it, but I guess that picking smite over Ignite may work, occasionally, considering that you first need a 750 gold investment for no stats.

LupusNox2 votes

eh, you get 475 gold to start, thats machete and 2 pots. you can go to lane already lvl 2 with most of these champs if you take krugs/froggy right off the bat (use smite at that point, no reason to hold onto it. Now your a level ahead, you would have to be retarded to give up a kill before you farm up the meager 350 gold needed for the upgrade.

Talamare2 votes

eh, you get 475 gold to start, thats machete and 2 pots. you can go to lane already lvl 2 with most of these champs if you take krugs/froggy right off the bat (use smite at that point, no reason to hold onto it. Now your a level ahead, you would have to be retarded to give up a kill before you farm up the meager 350 gold needed for the upgrade.

The only problem with this is if your Jungler is also starting same place Only a single smite gets the buff

Crazycatperson2 votes

For the love of god, do not start machete and pots. Machete does literally nothing useful for you in lane and you have to get 750 gold to get the upgraded one, you should be able to get it with your first back even without starting machete.

Grand Eleven2 votes

When they introduced jungle items this was a problem. Remember a certain gauntlet getting picked top lane repeatedly until it was nerfed into the ground? I said repeatedly then that making jungle items is a mistake and a nightmare to be balanced...

... but they double-downed in S4 anyway and gave us Feral Flare and madstone .... that worked great ....

... of course when something fails to balance well for two seasons it only makes sense to build even more jungle items for the 3rd season.

This is why I both love and hate the preseason. It's wacky.

Edit: to clarify the problem, items are globally available. This makes them a problem by nature as unless the jungle functions identically to a lane in terms of gold/level generation you end up with items that are balanced differently than the rest of the items in the game ... making them either universally efficient or inefficient. In other words: the world will buy them ... or no one will. There is no inbetween.

Jungle has to be balanced independent of items before you can introduce jungle specific gear or it will never work. If you try to make items balance the jungle for you it will fail based on the principle of junglers acquiring gold/levels at a different rate than the rest of the game.

DeynaTaggerung2 votes

HEHEHE doesn't skirmishers blade just scream Zed? It increases auto-attack damage, exhausts the opponent, and with Devourer applies on hit damage for, what? 6 seconds, yeah, that's as long as I was staying anyways. As for everyone worry about early game effectiveness, just go smite gromp and you get poisoned attacks. (Blue side only for top laners, srry)

Raid Boss Shiba2 votes

People have figured this out in the first 2 days of 4.20. It works pretty well at gold elo. Skirmisher and Skirmisher+Devourer are gold efficient and provide pretty good utility, not to mention strong late game scaling. And with the strong late game scaling benefits of Dragon buffs, having 2 smites makes contesting dragon quite a bit easier. Thus, smite has strong dueling, team fight, and objective-grabbing benefits, making it a really strong trade over TP/Ignite top.

However, given how strong Devourer is, I have a feeling it'll get nerfed 4.21. The item provides far too much and exceeds the other three options (the only other good one is Magus).

SS Enforcer2 votes

Idiotic idea... I mean, it doesn't really matter what happens in lane, it matters how good you control objectives. And that means teleport is still superior.

Rot Panda2 votes

This guy letting the secret out. but its ok, at least he isn't on to doing this as an ADC yet.

BeatzBoyFTW1 votes

Do note that the "smite on champion" only works when you purchase an upgraded machete. If you start with some item 1055 item 1054 item 2003, followed by mostly a item 1053, your smite is just some "championless" large minion kill-smite, meaning your smite is pretty much useless in the first 6 minutes I suppose, as mostly the enemy would have killed you by now with the help of summoner 14. If you're unfed while your top is (like hell), carrying smite seems like a burden.

I wouldn't recommend going summoner 11 in-lane. You're just gonna get things nerfed like people trying mid Soraka & jungle/top Alistar .

Talamare8 votes

Do note that the "smite on champion" only works when you purchase an upgraded machete. If you start with some item 1055 item 1054 item 2003, followed by mostly a item 1053, your smite is just some "championless" large minion kill-smite, meaning your smite is pretty much useless in the first 6 minutes I suppose, as mostly the enemy would have killed you by now with the help of summoner 14. If you're unfed while your top is (like hell), carrying smite seems like a burden.

I wouldn't recommend going summoner 11 in-lane. You're just gonna get things nerfed like people trying mid Soraka & jungle/top Alistar .

Its honestly as simple as not going ham until after your first back

750g is not difficult to reach

LupusNox5 votes

Hence you start item 1039 and get item 3715 and item 1001 on the first back at about 5 minutes. Its not that hard to not give up a kill by that point, if you do simply because you have smite and not tele, then you shouldn't be playing top lane. After that point you are unkillable 1v1, and you just roll and draw jungle attention which allows your team to pressure mid/bot, countergank, or take drags while the jungler is top

Talamare17 votes

Hence you start item 1039 and get item 3715 and item 1001 on the first back at about 5 minutes. Its not that hard to not give up a kill by that point, if you do simply because you have smite and not tele, then you shouldn't be playing top lane. After that point you are unkillable 1v1, and you just roll and draw jungle attention which allows your team to pressure mid/bot, countergank, or take drags while the jungler is top

I would probably not start Machete I would do a normal Longsword or Cloth Armor or Whatever start, then save 750g to buy upgraded smite instantly

Drukyul13 votes

I would probably not start Machete I would do a normal Longsword or Cloth Armor or Whatever start, then save 750g to buy upgraded smite instantly

I remember back when some of the dumber Ezreals were starting with Machete to rush Elder Lizard. Easiest lanes ever.

Samflash33 votes

Yup. Also, smite top lane allows you to secure those pesky last hits that you wouldn't get.

Sneak Dog2 votes

You can use your smite to grab an early jungle camp and hit level 2 before the other person.

Ninpire4 votes

You can use your smite to grab an early jungle camp and hit level 2 before the other person.

And put your jungler behind... no

ModWulf Helhammer2 votes

think he meant an enemy camp

Sneak Dog4 votes

If you have a toplaner that can jungle, you take the krug/gromp near toplane when your jungler starts at red buff. He won't need that camp, you'll hit level 2.

Drizzle1 votes

It will take the jungler more time to clear the rest of the jungle before the mob respawns enyway.

Garens Harem2 votes

{quoted}

It will take the jungler more time to clear the rest of the jungle before the mob respawns enyway.

siq necro

Drizzle1 votes

You need to do more than that in order to annoy.

Ryvaku1 votes

Wouldn't you need a certain jungling item to smite champions though?

Marthian2 votes

Yes and said jungling item is somewhat cheap and pretty amazing for the cost.

Narasimha1 votes

You know what? Go ahead. If it means you don't get to have summoner 12 summoner 14 or summoner 4, thats more than an even tradeoff. Also, its only 20% less damage to you. They can and probably will just switch fire to someone else.

Blithweevile3 votes

You're ignoring the scaling true damage on-hit from a 750gp item... It's a LOT of damage on anyone with an attack speed steroid like WW, Yi, Fiora.

LupusNox2 votes

Its meant to be an instant lane win item, because atm, it is

sure ignite has its benefits, as does tele, but smite is on a WAYYYYY shorter CD, so you can trade with it way more often. As for flash, I'd continue to use it or ghost as the champs secondary summoner

not going smite/ignite shaco here...

Drunk Rummate1 votes

you're going to spend 750 gold for a 6 second active on a 60 second cooldown?

okay... i'll just build 2 longswords and trade with you when it's on cooldown.

Zanathax2 votes

This. Anyone who wants to take smite into lane... please play against me. Not with me. This is simply dumb. You will put yourself SO far behind early doing this - a jungle item(so you can use smite to do the snazzy new stuff) is almost the cost of a vampire scepter. 2/3 of a sheen. the same price as chain armor. and the machete start is AWFUL in lane - it does nothing for you! You're gonna start machete 2 pots versus flask and 3 pots. Or cloth armor 5 pots? Or Doran's and a pot? That sounds like an AWFUL idea, especially since they're gonna probably get 1 kill on you if they have a brain since they're gonna have a big advantage, since you can't even USE smite until you have that 750 gold jungle item... that does NOTHING to help you in lane.

I don't care what your gold 5 ranked buddy told you, that's a TERRIBLE idea! It might work great versus bots or something, but everything else being equal it's freaking horrible!

CyberJacks1 votes

Playing champions with relatively strong early games or great sustain are what make buying skirmishers on a toplaner viable. Considering the item is 750g you will be behind as you have a smite which cannot be used on enemy champions until you buy it but its a trade off of weak early game until you can buy skirmishers to strong mid/ late game. Playing a champion such as Warwick or Fiora gives you great synergy with the skirmishers as their ultimates activate on hit effects, giving you ridiculous single target damage and crushing your lane opponent. Playing safe for the first 6- 7 minutes makes it well worth for the damage increase after buying the item.

Lets just do a little match really quick using Warwick as an example

say your lane opponent is at 3/4 hp at level 6 the true damage added to each hit is 33 with Warwick ulti channeling for 1.5 seconds and doing 5 hits this turns out to be an added 165 true damage to his already 250 damage ultimate you now have 4.5 seconds left to auto attack your lane opponent and chances are you blood scent is also activated giving you increased chasing potential as well saying you put in another 4 - 5 autoattacks that will be another 132 - 165 true damage added this is a bonus 297 - 330 true damage on an opponent with around 1000 hp total at level 6 compared to 170 damage on ignite at level 6

and as the game goes on your damage just increases making it a very viable strategy also taking smite makes it possible to take a camp at level 1 if your jungler isnt starting there and reach level 2 quickly to make up for the lack of ignite

NinjaToad991 votes

I've seen some people take it mid for the items too.

Cozarkian1 votes

Here's my proposed solution:

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/BR9muu06-suggestion-for-lane-smite

OJ1911 votes

you're going to spend 750 gold for a 6 second active on a 60 second cooldown?

okay... i'll just build 2 longswords and trade with you when it's on cooldown.

So.... never because they can just hold it until either you engage or they can hard engage without possibility for escape.

Velasan1 votes

Actually the item doesn't give many benefit stats compared to actual laning items you would build first. The enemy can also just move away for the few seconds your skirmishers is active.

So, for example taking the time to build the extra item on irelia is actually probably worse than just building more of your triforce or etc in terms of damage and reduction.

There will be unique cases where the advantage synnergizes so much that you will build it anyways, but that is not as often as you would think.

In fact I'd like to see someone try it on teemo. I really would.

The Nerf Doctor1 votes

I did this before I read your post and holy shit it works so well. 20% Doesn't seem like a lot but masteries don't seem like a huge boost, can you imagine your enemy having them and you don't? Plus as you mentioned smite has a 1 minute cd while other SS have 3+ mins.

Yura May Zing1 votes

Already started doing this xD

Blackwindy1 votes

wow thx dude you got it nerfed on pbe -.-

AccelGated1 votes

i do this check my match history :D

Dehorn1 votes

youll get crushed vs good top laners. they'll take advantage of you not having any combat stats til 6+

MrBuffington1 votes

Skirmisher's nerf on pbe, rip

Taking smite on a laner is really fun though; I'm thinking of taking it on top or support even, stalker's seems really cool on someone like Thresh who can use it to land hooks easier, plus he isn't as item dependent so he could probably spare the 750 gold mid game. Also lets you control objectives or counter jungle, lets you get a good, quick leash for your jungler in the early game, CS minions you can't reach, counter jungle, control scuttlecrab in river, etc etc. Stalkers seems like a lesser exhaust on a much lower cooldown.

Ipiyaka1 votes

The funny thing is that I playedRekSai as a Adc against Lux andLucian while Soraka was afking half the time because I hadsummoner 11and summoner 4. It was hard early game without soraka but then after I got item 1419 I was able to 2v1 them with ease. Mostly because I build high attack speed anyway.

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