Change the + 15% minion damage to +8% Armor/MR for second drag

LupusNox·Nov 24, 2014·23 votes·1,645 views

why do carries get more damage while tanks get nothing?

11 Comments

GROMMINov 24, 20143 votes

Because +15% damage to minions helps top laners farm, too.

+15% damage to minions is huge. It's the difference between clearing waves an item earlier in one combo, or not, for many champions (Talon rake, for example, with a Brutalizer)

+8 % Armor / MR would actually be an overall nerf, until lategame hits, in which it would be too powerful with five stacks of dragon, I feel.

LupusNoxNov 24, 20142 votes

No game that I have been in so far has had a team so dominant that they could get to 5 drags without the other team surrendering

or the other team has 2-3 drags while my team has had 2-3 drags

I haven't even seen it get to 4.

as for the waveclear issue, sure, but that requires your team to still get two drags, by which point most champs have enough damage to waveclear if thats what they are going for.

meanwhile their are all these AD/AP buffs and for most of the game, tank champs get shredded. It would be nice if they gave us the +8% armor/MR so that tanks can survive

supes the lostNov 24, 20142 votes

I got a team 5 dragons while playing Udyr , though in all honesty, we were stomping and just holding off for the 5th stack.

FrikgeekNov 24, 20141 votes

I got 6 in 1 game and it was still pretty close. It's pretty hard to push or get Baron vs good waveclear comps, especially when you're not super organised(it's soloQ). Dragon is your only option as it's much easier to kill and doesn't have a debuff that makes your whole team super vulnerable to magic damage. You really need those 5 stacks if you plan on diving the lazor turrets.

As for the waveclear issue, sure, but that requires your team to still get two drags, by which point most champs have enough damage to waveclear if thats what they are going for.

For midlaners, sure, but toplaners who aren't Renekton or Riven will always have trouble waveclearing. 15% creep damage really helps. Not to mention that it lets some mids even 1shot melee minions when they usually couldn't.

1RivalNov 24, 20143 votes

the whole point of the 5 dragon buffs are to end the game quicker. Every dragon buff adds an additional utility in order to push lane and structures quicker. swapping 1 for more ARM/MR is counter-intuitive for what dragons are based around

serpensortia1Nov 24, 20142 votes

Honestly, this feels wrong to me. Now that Baron provides insane pushing power, Dragon should give more teamfight power. So taking Dragon makes it easier to win teamfights, then you can take Baron, then you can push for the win.

In this regard the 15% minion damage and 15% tower damage need to be reworked. The whole dragon buff system should change. Maybe have different buffs, such as

50% base hp5/mp5
5% AD/AP
5% MS
5% Ar/MR
Triple other bonuses and burn enemies

First dragon gives lane sustain for end of laning phase, (or most of it if Pantheon :P). Second dragon gives more damage. Third dragon gives mobility. Fourth dragon then gives survivability. Fifth dragon greatly increases other bonusus still.

Drunk RummateNov 24, 20143 votes

that second dragon is actually huge for waveclearing, especially so on tanks who have trouble pushing in lanes quickly.

Colgate GatorNov 24, 20141 votes

You do realize that 15% minion damage would destroy all the enemies' first tower b principle, right?

But then again, Dragon seems to be focused in major snowball approach.

masterdragon481Nov 25, 20141 votes

I think giving an armor, mres buff is undoing exactly what taking dragon is suppose to do. Taking dragons is suppose to elevate the power of your team, hence the extra damage. Its suppose to be making it easier for the carries to kill the tanks. The idea is to NOT let your opponent get the buff, or at least to get the buff yourself as well so your teams are on even footing again.

That being said, I think the order in which the dragon buffs occur should be changed. 8% increased attack on carries should NOT be the first buff granted by dragon, it should be one of the last. Off the top of my head, I would put the movement first, the minion damage second, tower damage third, and ad/ap buff 4th. The movement will give the team getting the first dragon a few more options and better positioning, but it would require significantly more investment before the carries got their big buff.

hashinshinNov 25, 20141 votes

I think giving an armor, mres buff is undoing exactly what taking dragon is suppose to do. Taking dragons is suppose to elevate the power of your team, hence the extra damage. Its suppose to be making it easier for the carries to kill the tanks. The idea is to NOT let your opponent get the buff, or at least to get the buff yourself as well so your teams are on even footing again.

That being said, I think the order in which the dragon buffs occur should be changed. 8% increased attack on carries should NOT be the first buff granted by dragon, it should be one of the last. Off the top of my head, I would put the movement first, the minion damage second, tower damage third, and ad/ap buff 4th. The movement will give the team getting the first dragon a few more options and better positioning, but it would require significantly more investment before the carries got their big buff.

Were carries having troubles killing tanks before?

This is the third season straight of tank nerfs. Last season ended with 1 viable tank. What happens now?