Riot should definitely look at nerfing the jungle

Rock MD··6 votes·1,860 views

Before you go any further, this is a salt post. It probably will have good points, but it's still a salt post.

I'm really tired of how hard jg determines games. Scuttle crab has made it so you get a ton of dominant early game champions and now all we're getting is Graves, Kha'Zix, Lee Sin, etc.

And honestly these champions aren't reasonable to play against. New meta for junglers is to take all the buffs, tax all the lanes, steal all the kills, and then splitpush a lane. They build a massive exp lead and become unduelable monsters because of Red Smite enabling them. Red smite is honestly one of the most busted things nobody even bats an eye at. Fact of the matter is you get a 200-300 true damage in a duel and 20% damage reduction from your target. I know this board really hates free true damage so how come nobody ever talks about red smite? The cherry on top is the damage reduction, so if you're Graves and you bought a Cleaver as your second item, congratulations you're immune to assassination attempts. Talon's not gonna be killing you. LeBlanc isn't gonna be killing you. And it's on a NINETY SECOND cooldown. Smite as an objective control tool, I can understand having a 90 second CD but the raw dueling power you get from red smite should not be 90 seconds.

Speaking of objective control, it's not fair or fun that these champions have both the best dueling potential as well as the best class objective control. It makes you reliant on junglers in every single way because the differences between a good jungler and a bad jungler are so gamechanging it's suffocating. You can win games with a shit top/mid/adc/support, but the uphill climb against a bad jg is almost impossible. They also have insane carry potential. How many times have you seen Kha'Zix rack up 10+ kills by the 15 minute mark or Graves 1v9 to victory?

It stings because even after using smite on you, the jungler will have another charge coming up soon so that he can secure the objective as well, meaning it's pretty easy to juggle both of these tasks at once. There's no tradeoff for burning an important summoner on a 1v1. It's just an extra button to press that makes you more oppressive in duels.

It's gotten to the point where the jungler doesn't gank you anymore, you gank the jungler. He expects you to be at his scuttle crab, ready to contest. He expects you to push up so he can invade. Then if you lose, he has 10+ kills so it can't be his fault, right?

And the worst part is that of my last 10 or so games, the player with the worst attitude has almost unanimously been the jungler. They play super selfishly, act like the only competent player on their team, use that as justification to take all the gold, then flame the other lanes for being so behind. In half of my losing games, someone is being verbally abused by the jungler.

So please, nerf the jungle. Make it take longer to clear camps. Make it more dangerous to invade. Nerf Red smite. Something. I'm tired of playing games where the jungler takes all the exp and gold, can easily 1v1 whoever the fuck he wants, and then flaming everyone else after he's gold starved them. I'm tired of him getting away with it because the role is so damn strong if he can get far enough ahead he can 1v5 a team if played right. I'm tired of junglers going to an audience and crying, "I can't carry these shit lanes." and getting reassured for it even though he's taking more resources than anyone else by a mile. And I'm tired of him having the best dueling potential while also being a centerpiece in groups because of how strong the objective control from smite is.

7 Comments

Tormentula3 votes

The jungle was already nerfed to ruin 50% of the jungle pool and limit it to champs that can relentlessly gank + shove your jungle out of the game via scuttle lead.

The main reason the jungle went to shit was because top laners complained about early level 3 ganks (which they put up with 8 seasons of this so why now change..i can't believe riot actually listened to that of all complaints), so now we just got who's better at getting mid priority level 2/taking scuttle for free because there's no way you win the contest unless lucky smite, which results in one jungle pretty much taking control of the entire game while yours is suffering from the jungle nerfs.

The likely reason level 3s got so opposed over the years, is because we're not back in the day when the jungle was Shyvana MasterYi Rumble Olaf Fiddlesticks, we're in the Shaco XinZhao LeeSin Taliyah Graves Camille Evelynn Kindred meta, which have nothing better to do but make your life shit, and the ones that do need to farm to 6, do it so fast and at 6 there's nothing you can really do about it (speaking as an eve main personally).

The meta is do or die, with the nerfs that became even worse because only one side of the map can actually do.

I'm surprised red smite is quiet too though. I would rather see riot revert the scuttle changes.. sure 4 camp idc but remove the crab level up so river isn't a clown fiesta level 2. Then both jungles actually have their full XP access instead of being cut off early levels at river.

Rock MD2 votes

{quoted}

The jungle was already nerfed to ruin 50% of the jungle pool and limit it to champs that can relentlessly gank + shove your jungle out of the game via scuttle lead.

The main reason the jungle went to shit was because top laners complained about early level 3 ganks (which they put up with 8 seasons of this so why now change..i can't believe riot actually listened to that of all complaints), so now we just got who's better at getting mid priority level 2/taking scuttle for free because there's no way you win the contest unless lucky smite, which results in one jungle pretty much taking control of the entire game while yours is suffering from the jungle nerfs.

The likely reason level 3s got so opposed over the years, is because we're not back in the day when the jungle was Shyvana MasterYi Rumble Olaf Fiddlesticks, we're in the Shaco XinZhao LeeSin Taliyah Graves Camille Evelynn Kindred meta, which have nothing better to do but make your life shit, and the ones that do need to farm to 6, do it so fast and at 6 there's nothing you can really do about it (speaking as an eve main personally).

The meta is do or die, with the nerfs that became even worse because only one side of the map can actually do.

I'm surprised red smite is quiet too though. I would rather see riot revert the scuttle changes.. sure 4 camp idc but remove the crab level up so river isn't a clown fiesta level 2. Then both jungles actually have their full XP access instead of being cut off early levels at river.

Why does every jungler cry the jungle has been going to shit. Every single time without fail. It hasn't gone to shit because if it was, the only champions you'd be playing are utility champions.

Junglers aren't though. They're playing aggressive picks that hoard gold and transition into huge late-game damage threats. If the meta was really that bad for junglers, we wouldn't have seen Kindred. We wouldn't be seeing Graves or Kha'Zix or anything that only brings damage to the table. We'd be seeing Rammus and Sej, Nunu and Rek'Sai and Skarner.

I really don't know how you can say jungle is in a bad spot when it favors champions that can 1v1 and become disgustingly strong duelists.

Salron2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rock MD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=M2xOPT37,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-08-24T01:21:05.582+0000) Nerf Red smite.

This is the only thing i'm here for honestly It is absolutely baffling to me that no one ever talks about how insane this has been for years when it basically autowins duels

BeastmodeOnTour1 votes

you never played jungle for a longer time,right?...

Rock MD1 votes

{quoted}

you never played jungle for a longer time,right?...

Don't necro my threads because you're salty your role is getting the nerfs it deserves.

Moody P1 votes

necromancer Moody checking in

NERF the jungle

Düff McWhalen1 votes

Wanna know what would nerf the jungle early and reduce ganks? An extra ward for every player at start. The responsibility is still on the player, but having that extra vision will ruin so many chances for a level 2 gank.

In addition, buff the clear time for tank junglers.

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