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Can we talk about how broken Malzahar is right now?

Barkley··83 votes·11,172 views

I've been playing a whole lot of malzahar lately. You know why?

because its the easiest laning phase you'll ever have in your life, and you basically CAN'T have a bad game on him unless you're being greedy, over extending, or just playing poorly. The game is YOURS to lose if you play malzahar. There is virtually zero risk to this champion, unless you purposely take risks.

Enemy -CAN- reach you? K. Press E, W, walk back toward your turret. Rinse and repeat. Zero risk, probably get better CS than my opponent. Enemy -CANT- reach you? Awesome. Press E, W to auto-farm the entire wave flawlessly, then harass the hell out of my opponent.

I had a bad laning phase? That's fine. I'll still have the highest CS on the map before the game is over because I literally press 2 buttons to farm an entire wave. I don't even have to be there! I can just walk into a lane, hit E, W, and walk away. Zero risk. And if someone comes to mess with me, I just press R on them and they die - or at least dissuaded. Whether I win lane or lose lane, I'll still be relevant.

I had a good laning phase? Even better. Now I can E, W push my wave, and go basically insta-kill whoever I want by rolling my face on my keyboard. That was fun! Back to my lane to go press E, W again. Rinse and repeat.

Enemy jungler trying to fight my jungler? Let me just walk over there really fast (my wave is pushed anyway, haha!) and press E on him. Cool, we won the fight!

Oh no... a big team fight is happening. Better Q,E,W Q,E,W Q,E,W until somoene steps out of position and press R on them. Good thing everyone's silenced so they can't counteract my poke at all.

Oh no... There's a turret in our way... good thing I can press W and melt the turret like a fed ADC. I don't even have to aim it! I just press W and then Right Click, and the tower is dead a few moments later. I don't even have to stay near the turret, at the first sign of danger I can just walk away. My voidlings will get the job done.

Oh no... The enemy has assassins that can 1-shot me! Good thing this zhonya's hourglass thingy is a thing in this game, and builds wonderfully into my playstyle. Oh, and my passive shield blocks a ton of damage and CC. Oh and I can build Rod of Ages and be totally fine. Oh and I ran barrier. Oh and there's that Rune now that gives me a free zhonyas, too. Oh and my team is peeling me. Oh and if I do all of these things, I can still 1-combo your tanks AND your squishies, I'm just safer while doing it. No real trade off.

196 Comments

42628756 votes

You've played 6 games this preseason as Malz. With a whopping 50% winrate and a kda of....2...yeah, broken as hell, better nerf Rito!

Disembark3 votes

Yeah while I don’t agree with HOW OP got to the conclusion, he has the highest winrate in every elo right now (ever since preseason).

Actually he was really good before preseason (played a lot in worlds too).

He’s not only broken but he’s also toxic. Targeted rannged suppression, in interactive waveclear, 2.5 sec ranged silence. I mean cmon...

He’s pushing 55%+ win rate but boards won’t address him because “mages being shit” is fotm

SociopathFriend5 votes

Targeted rannged suppression

That roots him in place and prevents any other action without canceling it.

in interactive waveclear

Malzahar's waveclear is arguably one of the most interactive in the game considering you can actually do something about it like killing the voidlings he require to do it.

2.5 sec ranged silence

That is a skillshot and a delay.

He’s pushing 55%+ win rate but boards won’t address him because “mages being shit” is fotm

He's pushing 55% win rate because he's the lone distant suppression champion now. This naturally makes him very good when teams work with him. If your team abandons you and doesn't care you'll fair about as well as Mordekaiser since you auto-push waves. He's also a fantastic anti-Assassin which is presumably why he has such a high winrate- he's a counter champion.

Succubús GF1 votes

In lane phase what does that have to do with anything? And in teamfight it doesn't really matter because if they focus you your team will collapse on them.

That roots him in place and prevents any other action without canceling it.

With Morello or RoA he can generally ew for a full wave clear. You killed his voidlings? He can q the wave to reset his e.

Malzahar's waveclear is arguably one of the most interactive in the game considering you can actually do something about it like killing the voidlings he require to do it.

Yes. his ONE skillshot that is arguable one of the best soft ccs

That is a skillshot and a delay.

So he is uninteractive, counters the entire pool of mid lane with the exception of three champions according to op.gg, AND is too good at literally everything? And that's okay? K cool. [sg-lulu]

He's pushing 55% win rate because he's the lone distant suppression champion now. This naturally makes him very good when teams work with him. If your team abandons you and doesn't care you'll fair about as well as Mordekaiser since you auto-push waves. He's also a fantastic anti-Assassin which is presumably why he has such a high winrate- he's a counter champion.

SociopathFriend2 votes

In lane phase what does that have to do with anything? And in teamfight it doesn't really matter because if they focus you your team will collapse on them.

Noted- Malzahar somehow picked out someone important on your team and somehow your team is in no position to stop him from doing so or saving the member before the rest of his team joins the fight? Sounds like someone wasn't in proper position and was punished.

With Morello or RoA he can generally ew for a full wave clear. You killed his voidlings? He can q the wave to reset his e.

So if he blows all 3 of his basic abilities he can clear a wave? Shocking. Also I'm waiting for how that's anymore interactive than any given mage that uses abilities to clear the wave- several from much farther away than Malz has to be and none of which have the ability for you to kill their waveclear option exempting cases like Zyra or Heimer.

So he is uninteractive, counters the entire pool of mid lane with the exception of three champions according to op.gg, AND is too good at literally everything? And that's okay? K cool.

Define 'interactive' instead of spamming keywords. I already pointed out how his laning is more interactive than pretty much any mage and you proceeded to sail right past it so clearly we're not using the same definition. Also he most certainly does not counter the entire mid lane pool minus 3 champions, ether you're not reading the data correctly or op.gg isn't displaying it correctly.

Trash MammaI31 votes

He's been the same for ages though, he's never had a rough laning phase nor has he ever really been a risky champ

Somebody Love Me1 votes

Except he didn't have access to all this damage before.

SweedishGunner27 votes

That's bullshit, before his rework he had plenty of damage.

RainXBlade6 votes

Shrugs from PTSD from Pre-Rework Malzahar

Red Wreckage18 votes

nope sorry. we're all too busy right now trying to get Yasuo nerfed some more. we're also currently focusing on Zed AD assassins to get them nerfed cause mages are just completely useless right now. we also need to get tanks buffed some more cause how dare anyone try to hit tanks in lane while they are trying to farm. any resistance should be immediately punished with half HP bar in 1 second to tell aggressors who is the boss. we also have to defend weak ADC as many are trying to get unjustified nerfs to them.

so yea we don't really have time for noob stuff like malz

Bronze 6 Yasuo8 votes

Attack of the Mage mains

iDarkWind5 votes

I mean, look at the top win rates on mid lane: http://euw.op.gg/champion/statistics

Full of AD Assasins. It's so stupid.

Ah, and don't forget about AP Itemazation, buffs pls.

NineTailedMystic2 votes

You know there are outliers to every problem right? A small handful of over performing Mages don't excuse the ones that don't see play.

Void Baboon RF17 votes

How's this any different from any mage with a bit of range. In fact one of Malzahar's hardest lane match ups does the exact same thing Orianna except she's been in meta since the beginning of time.

I really get tired of doing this but you're gold 5 with 6 games played as Malz with a 50% winrate. You've never been punished by someone that understands Malz pre lost chapter and especially pre 6 is one of the weakest laners in the game. You've never played against anyone who understands that Malz is strong not because of his laning, but because of his incredible synergy with any jungle post 6 and how punishing he can be if you die in a gank and played/warded accordingly.

It also might blow your mind, but Malz was always an anti assassin. That's always been his niche, even when everybody forgot he existed. He was the anti assassin that was incredibly susceptible to all ins, ganks and poke because of his immobility and shorter range. The only thing thats changed now is he's got that stupid new passive that mitigates these weaknesses substantially.

ªTeemo6 votes

Orianna doesn't just do the same thing, she does everything

TotalJerk1 votes

You offered no concrete explanations to what his weaknesses are. The only thing he truly has is that if your champion can outpush him or can easily kill voidlings without spending a lot of mana, he has a hard time last-hitting under tower.

EfficientDynamo3 votes

Little hint: you can kill voidlings with one AA. Don't want him to auto clear the lane? AA his minions and watch him go OOM.

kendrask13 votes

Play Anivia or any long range poke control mage and everything will be fine :)

Bronze 6 Yasuo15 votes

No. Zed is more op nerf pls. XDDDDD

Faceroll Tactics11 votes

MaGeS aRe HiLaRiOuSlY wEaK

SB Arneeman6 votes

Malzahar is strong, but he falls off lategame, especially vs long range adcs. QSS completely negates the ult cc so they can kill him. 3 of his skills deal single target damage, while he doesn't have the same dps as Cassiopeia or Azir.

Kloak4 votes

item 3140

General Esdeath 1 votes

If you use QSS for his E you're gonna have to sit through his ult

NineTailedMystic6 votes

QSS can't cleanse his E anymore.

Ren Amari4 votes

Cough You forgot that people have to build a 1300 gold item that isn't part of their main build to carry a game against him Cough

This makes it almost impossible for you to get QSS before 20-25 minutes. And before then you are at the mercy that your team doesn't need you to dive their adc, while this asshole presses R on you. Kek

A real fix for this is simple. Make QSS a core item for people to build before 20 minutes, and then make his ult clensable. This champion is banned by me every game because he counters me carrying people.

CrisisEchoes4 votes

People forget anivia hard counters malz. She farms harder, she pops his shield instantly, she has higher utility in fights, and she wins all 1v1s . Malz mid not so strong.

Malz support on the other hand.... that shits cancer

Barkley2 votes

{quoted}

People forget anivia hard counters malz. She farms harder, she pops his shield instantly, she has higher utility in fights, and she wins all 1v1s

Please read my replies to other similar claims.

And lets say for instance that you pick anivia and you just choose to babysit malzahar wherever he goes and just completely match his every move to take him out of the game.

That's fine, but now the game is 4v4, and all you've done is take away their underfed, underfarmed, shut-down malzahar while removing your high-income, high-score self. That's a loss for your team.

Your other option is to NOT babysit malzahar after you beat his purple ass in with ice crystals.

Cool. See you in 15 minutes when I have more CS than you and a point-and-click death ray.

CrisisEchoes2 votes

mmm this isnt very accurate. Anivia kills malz, and she outscales the fuck out of him. She cant die in 1 rotation due to her bird jesus passive. Malz gets fucked if he doesnt kill with his ultimate. He cant when anivias a thing. A normal combo in lane pre 6 looks like anivia staying back and qe him/wave while outranging him.

Post 6 anivia just ults malz and then has priority for the rest of the game, because malz is squishy enough for her to 1 combo and he cant outshove, he cant outsustain, and he cant outteamfight. Anivia ult single handedly zones the fuck out of a fight. Not to mention if anivia times the wall right she can cancel a malzahar ultimate with it. If she presses w the second he ults it cancels malz ult

Barkley4 votes

{quoted}

mmm this isnt very accurate. Anivia kills malz, and she outscales the fuck out of him. She cant die in 1 rotation due to her bird jesus passive. Malz gets fucked if he doesnt kill with his ultimate. He cant when anivias a thing. A normal combo in lane pre 6 looks like anivia staying back and qe him/wave while outranging him.

Post 6 anivia just ults malz and then has priority for the rest of the game, because malz is squishy enough for her to 1 combo and he cant outshove, he cant outsustain, and he cant outteamfight. Anivia ult single handedly zones the fuck out of a fight. Not to mention if anivia times the wall right she can cancel a malzahar ultimate with it.

If I'm playing malz mid, I ban anivia for all of these reasons.

but in the hypothetical situation that she gets picked, I just hang back and farm with E + W, which is brainless work. If she kills my voidlings, I just summon more. Her ult costs way more than my W, she'll OOM long before I do.

I'm never gonna fight her because I know I can't, and I know I don't need to. So it just ends up being a farm fest in the middle of mid lane. If I get ganked, I run. Maybe flash. Whatever. My passive keeps me pretty safe from all that. Once I get rylais, I'm virtually un-gankable.

If my jungler comes, she's dead. Period. Unless we misplay it really poorly.

Once lane phase is over, she goes and does her bird thing, and I go and do my purple wizard thing. May the best man win.

That's just counterpicks for ya. The problem with your argument, though is that Anivia is pretty much the only person that can hold a candle to malzahar, and anyone who plays malz knows this and will ban her.

That leaves quite a number of mid laners who are just super oppressed by malz, or go even with him.

That also leaves my original argument that even if malz gets dumpstered in lane, he's still relevant no matter what. I don't agree with your notion that anivia "shuts down" malzahar.

Makes his life hard? Sure.

Shuts him down? I don't personally think so.

CrisisEchoes2 votes

At that point its just a matter of player skill, but the matchup is favored towards the bird. If a d5 anivia main was vs a d5 malz main the anivia main would be able to win the game based off of the matchup alone providing everyone else had equally skilled masters allies and no crazy rng occured.

Sure malz can come back into the game, but if this was a viable strategy to win games vayne would legit be 70% winrate +

Ahri Azir Cassiopeia Ziggs Zyra Xerath can all do very well vs malz in his current state. Malz struggles vs high poke high waveclear high range champions. His only available windows to kill are at 6 till like lvl 8 (late laning phase) with a jg gank.

It takes skill to pull off high poke high waveclear champs like that. Its why youre probably winning. But ones that hold spacing vs malz will literally make a malz ragequit

Barkley1 votes

{quoted}

Ahri Azir Cassiopeia Ziggs Zyra Xerath can all do very well vs malz in his current state. Malz struggles vs high poke high waveclear high range champions.

I disagree with this as well.

Malzahar can push equally well vs these champions, and for a much lower mana cost. These lanes just turn into a farm fest. I can stand as far back as I want to to avoid poke and farm safely with my E + W, which costs me almost nothing with Dorans Ring + E Passive + Manaflow band, while these champions run out of mana (except maybe xerath) trying to keep up.

When they oom, I pounce, or if I'm scared of them because of their lane behavior, I just keep shoving and don't let them go B - making them miss a buttload of CS and miss crucial item power spikes.

If they B, I damage or take their tower.

I win.

CrisisEchoes2 votes

farm fest in cassiopeia/azir lane is a losing game. They both out dps/utility malz lategame. Cassiopeia wont go oom after first back. Azir might struggle a bit for a while. But if it hits late he auto wins.

farm fest in ziggs/xerath/ahri lane is a skill based lategame. Wouldn't be guarenteed either way. Ziggs has almost infinite mana if used correctly. Xerath is the same.

Any of these champs can run tp and stop a tower falling. Or call for a jgler to hold wve while they get items.

NineTailedMystic2 votes

lolno. A non-fed Ahri is a worthless Ahri.

EternalShock3 votes

Because of no resistances laning vs him as anything but a mobile mage has become impossible .

After 6 he completely shits on u if u aren’t zed and even then he has his ulti for Hanks

He’s just become more annoying than he was before

Wonko The Sane2 votes

How to beat Malzahar in lane: kill the voidlings. Pick a champ with some sort of waveclear, or even a good autoattack, and the instant he EW's, kill the voidlings that spawn. Congrats, you've just mitigated his entire pushing strategy. Pre-6 especially, you will crap all over him. I've been on both ends of the matchup, before he has an item or two, almost all of Malzahar's pushing power is in the W, you can't kill a minion with just E without stepping forward to auto it at least a couple times, which can be easily punished. I definitely feel that Malz is a bit on the strong side at the moment, but he can be very easily beaten in lane.

Barkley1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wonko The Sane,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=M1cV9EOQ,comment-id=001c,timestamp=2017-11-28T17:41:39.387+0000)

I definitely feel that Malz is a bit on the strong side at the moment, but he can be very easily beaten in lane.

Cool, you beat him in lane. Congrats. In 15 minutes hes gonna come back with just as much CS as you, maybe more, and all your effort will have been for nothing.

ViresIntus722 votes

Malz is getting a slight nerf in the upcoming patch. But I mean hes not invincible by any means. Azir and Xerath have equally easy lane phases and punish those who get too close. God forbid velkoz hard countering Malzahar too.

He's OP if you don't know what your doing against him. Easiest way to counter him is to AOE or hard target his pets so he cant farm efficiently. He's also squishy as a mage should be so when team fights start occurring just target him before he gets to cycle through his CD and cause more damage. Problems with his ult, just perform a stun/knockup/generally any cc and cancel his ult.

As for "who the hell do I think I am" I main Malzahar and I know his pro's and con's. Overall hes a solid pick but that does not mean he's without fault.

C0deineCrazy2 votes

Just ban him...

Barkley4 votes

{quoted}

Just ban him...

This should never be the answer for a champion, from a balance perspective.

C0deineCrazy1 votes

From a balance perspective. All champions can't be completely equal... So there are some that are stronger than others... So ban him. It's common sense.

Barkley7 votes

{quoted}

From a balance perspective. All champions can't be completely equal... So there are some that are stronger than others... So ban him. It's common sense.

Banning should be a strategic tool, not a balance solution.

Banning should be "This champion is good against my champion, so I'm going to ban him."

Not "This champion is good pretty much no matter what, so I'm gonna ban him."

The 2nd implies an issue that needs to be addressed.

C0deineCrazy1 votes

I've got an idea!!!! HOW ABOUT WE COUNTER MALZ WHEN HE IS PICKED OH WOW WHAT A GREAT IDEA. There's another solution that you just pointed out to me... Also, QSS makes him useless...

C0deineCrazy1 votes

Or take cleanse... which you still get Hp dmg but avoid the Stun... Wow. That was easy to counter. Point proven

Barkley3 votes

{quoted}

Or take cleanse... which you still get Hp dmg but avoid the Stun... Wow. That was easy to counter. Point proven

If i'm not mistaken (and I very well may be) you can't cleanse suppress.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

But even so, my point is that if malzahar is 0-20 dog shit, you still just burned a very important summoner to survive his ult. Good luck if anyone else has hard CC, because your QSS and/or cleanse is now on cooldown to the garbage feeder malzahar.

C0deineCrazy1 votes

If he's 0-20 i hope the game is over. But i understand it's hard to end games in your Bronze 5 elo. Also, just stay out of his ult range is he's a carry... This is exhausting explaining myself to a child.

CrisisEchoes4 votes

Uh youre literally on an unranked account. Lemme guess, your buddies account is challenger and youre gonna post his op.gg here to prove that youre actually challenger? XD

*waits patiently for xxNoobkillerXXx69s op.gg

C0deineCrazy1 votes

your way of proving that you're right is to say you're being outsmarted by an account lower than lvl 30.. Wow. You just keep pointing out to everyone else that you are slow. You are a funny guy.

CrisisEchoes2 votes

and just like that you prove that youre a troll.

GripaAviara1 votes

Hmm funny how almost everything you said here can apply to lux, but Lux is balanced according to the boards

I agree, though, Maltz is definitely not a healthy champ

MangelinaJolie3 votes

What?

Lux cannot clear waves with two spells unless she ults. She will need to AA.

Lux Q can be cleansed and does not require QSS.

MR is significantly more impactful against Lux as she has no %HP damage and poor base damage.

Lux is ENTIRELY skillshot reliant. Malzahar is not, and at best in that argument is his Q, which is not needed for a full all in (Lux Q is) and works best for trades and peel.

Lux might have range but she can easily be dove during laning phase if she is not holding her Q or it is on cooldown. There is an abundance of burst that will eat through her first shield proc and kill her before it returns.

I mean honestly, not joining the Malz hate here, but this is so incredibly off base.

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