Give Darius his old Q back

Big Lincoln·Dec 11, 2016·2 votes·533 views

i don't even care if you remove the heal, in season 7 you die before the delay ends anyway

let me actually be able to do my job in a teamfight vs these cancer ADCs

and revert his attack speed

12 Comments

Moooose3Dec 11, 20163 votes

If you're seriously dying before the delay ends, pick a new champ because you're either playing or building him so atrociously wrong.

Big LincolnDec 11, 20161 votes

because it's hard to imagine Darius's 1 second delay getting him killed when he tries to regen

Shuyin178Dec 11, 20161 votes

He can keep the delay, but the heal can go.

AvienalDec 11, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LzFv09fy,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-12-11T16:04:56.676+0000)

i don't even care if you remove the heal, in season 7 you die before the delay ends anyway

let me actually be able to do my job in a teamfight vs these cancer ADCs

and revert his attack speed

Considering you did not specify how far back on 'give Darius's old Q back', it seems kind of silly to make him go back to the bonus AD scaling, remove his ability to move during it, reduce the amount of healing granted just because it has the following instead.

-His old Q did not display the hit box(super unhealthy for trades for opponents). -His old Q even had the handle apply hemmorage(again super unhealthy against other opponents) -His old Q had no delay on it(again super unhealthy move where he could basically do it instantly so it was like a Annie blasting with her own abilities, which a tank should never get the capability to pull that stuff).

This being on patch..5.16 i believe? Which also included them buffing his armor, health and range and nerfing his attack speed a bit. Seriously its like your asking for Darius to just turn into Xin'Zhao with semi'tankie stats but BS snap attack abilities, attack speed and able to high burst (thru how his hemmorage grants a big attack damage boon when a enemy hits 5 stacks?)

Heck on 5.16 too he used to gain bonus move speed PER bleeding champ thru his passive and it had this too done to it on the same patch.

Hemmorage Now deals Physical damage from Magic. Per stack damage reduced to 「 9 + (1 per level) 」 from 12 - 36 (based on level). Bonus AD ratio unchanged Total damage reduced to 「 45 + (5 per level) 」 from 60 - 180 (based on level)

I know you basically were only asking for Darius's old Q back but to me its like asking for them to revert a bunch of things on him which included much bigger damage spikes and so on. Plus an ADC's job is suppose to be able to deal consistent damage against various targets, tanks are suppose to win out in a sustained fight but that is usually against Fighters, Assassins and Mages, If a ADC builds right they should have a kit to be able to melt even tankie high priority targets. Because everyone knows a Darius is a champion you do not want to snowball and get a chance to pop his R on a low health target.

So i would suggest playing different champions depending on what the enemy team is running, Darius may be one of the two top picks for climbing in rank in the top lane but that does not mean he is some omnipotent piece of garbage against everything. Still would like to see him 'NERFED' though in terms of his niche grab of item 3071 and item 3742 , like so many other AD top lane types.

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

Plus before you say Darius is not a tank, he's listed as Fighter/Tank and basically built with mostly tank items or items with health to just item 3071 shred you, E passive shred you and then just bleed you like a blood pack while continuing the harass till he can just dunk you less you can dash away from him thru some means, if 's move speed boon, item 3742 's move speed boon, and his W Crippling strike's 2 second slow/cripple(funfact cripple REDUCES attack speed) effect doesn't ruin your chance to use a flash or similar move to jump away from him.

Big LincolnDec 11, 20161 votes

he's built tank because he has absolutely zero defensive steroids in his kit and needs it to be able to exist in a 5v5

of course his tank stats don't matter as soon as the enemies buy pen (thanks item 3036 ) because, again, no defensive steroids to amplify it like other tanks (or even Garen's W) do

Darius needs his old Q back to function in today's meta of super strong dps, I would gladly have the instant Q back with heavy nerfs to its early damage to refocus him towards late game dominance, but god damn am I tired of being worthless late game

BeatzBoyFTWDec 11, 20164 votes

Mastery 7 Darius here, and no, his current Q is a lot healthier than the old Q.

As Avienal already mentioned, his old Q typically has no counterplay since it has 0 cast time & is literally a melee version of Annie's W. The delay on his Q is healthy for few reasons:

adjusts himself to get the most hits out of it.
gives enemy some plenty of room to try to dodge it.
His E & W can already help negate the delay it does, considering the fact that both abilities grants slows.

His Q heals are already considered his defensive steroids especially when coupled with Spirit Visage. Garen's W is typically a short duration debuff with a long cooldown, plus the fact that Garen doesn't really contribute much CC & utility like Darius does (he has a pull, slow & AoE sustain, Garen has a single Silence, out of combat sustain & kitable spin-to-win).

Current Darius still builds full tank (after Black Cleaver), adding the fact that he can be quite mobile with BC's passive since his bleeds deals physical damage.

Yes, his one weakness is being highly kitable, which forcibly blocks him from 1v1 dueling most ADC champions. Even old Darius has the same weakness as well. Do note that Darius isn't meant to be the first guy to start teamfights, so his best choice in teamfight is to wait for someone else to dive into the enemy team, pick off a single enemy with his dunk to gain the bonus AD & "one damage for 5 bleeds", and you'll be shredding the enemy ADC with his 2nd dunk instantly.

Big LincolnDec 11, 20161 votes

mastery 6 Darius here, would be 7 if I didn't tilt off the face of the earth

my problem is that despite being melee and immobile, Darius has more counterplay than every single ranged DPS and the majority of mages. Why, when I manage to get past their front line, do they still have the opportunity to outplay me, but I'm forced to play the stat-check game thanks to shit like item 3036 and their unavoidable auto attacks? By all means, me getting in melee range should mean I win, especially after going through all the effort to avoid hooks and CC skillshots only to die anyway during my Q windup, because ADC damage is just that stupidly high even though I built 411 armor and 4k health specifically to survive them.

if these champions don't have that style of counterplay then Darius shouldn't either

BeatzBoyFTWDec 11, 20161 votes

Sounds really like a kiting problem you have. A start of 1v1 dueling against a fed ADC isn't the option, which is why I chose the option to kill-dunk probably a tanky bruiser or mage, and then being able to one-hit the fed ADC in order to gain the 5 stacks while having the bonus AD from your passive. That is mainly your best bet of Offence against ADCs. Take the time to do it too long, of course you'll get shredded to death instead. In the case of Twitch from your Match History, he's a toxic crap due to his DoT passive.

Big LincolnDec 11, 20161 votes

that game was a fucking mess. I had to be the one to rush Twitch because Sivir and Karthus were incompetent

it wasn't kiting either, Twitch literally stood there and let me whack on him during his ult and I still couldn't kill him through his lifesteal and his Thresh missing all CC and just throwing down shields and Redemption. not to mention Gangplank being allowed to ignore the majority of my armor because riot balance team so I just get nuked when they turn around.

it was probably the angriest I've been at league in a long time

AvienalDec 11, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LzFv09fy,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-12-11T16:41:16.502+0000)

he's built tank because he has absolutely zero defensive steroids in his kit and needs it to be able to exist in a 5v5

of course his tank stats don't matter as soon as the enemies buy pen (thanks ) because, again, no defensive steroids to amplify it like other tanks (or even Garen's W) do

Darius needs his old Q back to function in today's meta of super strong dps, I would gladly have the instant Q back with heavy nerfs to its early damage to refocus him towards late game dominance, but god damn am I tired of being worthless late game

Its called learn to summoner 4 , don't run directly right at the Tank Busters or wait for your team to start the fight since Darius is not a initiator, especially on how his kit works, That job's more for champions like Amumu Malphite Galio Kennen Zac and anyone who has the ability to jump in, disrupt multiple enemy targets and grant your team the opportunity to get the first blood advantage in the team fight. Just because a champion is a tank does not mean they are a diver or initiator of any sort.

Whenever i see people gripe that X champion is not strong enough when they literally have the kit to pull off penta kills or melt a enemy team, its always because the person does not know how to actually think by looking at the enemy team comp, their item comp and their summoner spells and especially if the enemy team has been showing any particular behavior (like the jungler pulling early game ganks or the mid laner wanting to roam to bot as soon as the mid lane is pushed up and their mid lane opponent left). That or once again 'THEY JUST RUN STRAIGHT TO THE ENEMIES' and not think to try and go thru the jungle to get close using the fog of war and bushes to surprise the enemies instead while they are focused on 2 or 3 of your team members in the lane.

Literally the main problem is alot of tanks can easily build tank items and also be monsters ( Darius ESPECIALLY with item 3071 item 3065 item 3742 item 3053 [especially this item grab so combined with it and CC based champions that can still use Courage of the colossus to EZ dive champions without dying due to 2 super health shields on a already super high health stack champion, even with just Sterakk just making them as hard to kill as a Dr. Mundo high health tank].

So it should be no surprise that any champion with AD in their title that can't be stacking flat armor penetration anymore will op'in for the % armor shredder and % damage bonus based on enemy health targets to rip apart all the mages, tanks, fighters and item 3025 wearing Ezreal who auto grab the EZ tankie items that still let them be damage dealing monsters too.

Big LincolnDec 11, 20161 votes

oh okay, so every 5 minutes i get to do my job as a melee carry. cool

I didn't have any problems with getting on the enemy. I had problems surviving even though I was by all means doing everything right myself; I landed my Qs, I spread my passive around to 3-4 people every, and I still die to sheer DPS even though I built specifically to hard counter their damage, because they bought LDR and now my delayed spell is a huge detriment to my survival because of how much damage they do to me.

If Darius doesn't need a buff, then these items need to be gutted. LDR is one of the worst ideas Riot's ever had.