Nasus are starting to do some dumb crap were they stack klepto with ancient coin and go bonkers. I am really skeptical klepto can ever be in a balanced state if Nasus (a melee immobile champ) can abuse the mastery that way
nelogis2 votesI don't think so
I think it's actually very good that immobile melee's have the chance to use the Rune. Otherwise you could rename it to "Rune for Ezreal and Gangplank".
It's just that the Rune is overtuned, nerf it and Nasus will also be brought back in place together with GP and Ez.
But unfortunately this is Riot we are talking about so what will happen is that Nasus Ez and GP will be nerfed and then Klepto will be nerfed after Riot realizes that that was the problem and will leave the 3 champs they nerfed because of the rune in the dirt.... noicuh!
Also they will make it so you will HAVE to take the rune otherwise you are basicly trolling.
DeadUnborn1 voteskey word ABUSE, not use
nelogis2 votesBut he isn't absuing it? What is the difference between him and Illaoi? they are both USING it. You could say Ez and GP are abusing it because it works better on them than on any other champ but I don't understand how Nasus is ABUSING it.
care to explain?
TengenToppaGnar2 votesEh, anyone who gets a high win-rate thanks to Klepto might as well be abusing it right now, due to how overtuned it is.
DeadUnborn1 votessure thing
http://champion.gg/champion/Nasus/Top?
he abuses it because his Q has a very accesible CD, he scales harder with CDR than illaoi thanks to perma W slow and gets insane ammounts of gold between coin and klepto
Oleandervine1 votesAnd then we supports get our gold income items nerfed into oblivion and removed from the game because of shit like this happening.
DeadUnborn1 votesHence why klepto is crap. I think to fix it the gold generation part of the item should go offline if you are not near at least one ally for one minute. At least in Solo Q it wouldn't get abused that way
nelogis1 votesI will take my statement back saying GP and Ez abusing the rune.
Now what exactly do you define as "abusing"? The newest abuse case was from GP using double ult upon buying Raise Morale. He was abusing it because it SHOULDN'T work like that.
Caitlyn used to proc her passive 3 times as fast with Ruunans, she was abusing it because it SHOULDN'T have worked like that.
Support items are going to get gutted because poeple that shouldn't use these items are abusing it (ADC with Relic / Nasus with coin / AP junglers with spellthieves etc.)
So I define something abuse when it clearly SHOULDN'T work like that or if someone is using something that wasn't designed for them at all.
Now in Nasus case yes the coin BS is abuse in my eyes but he isn't abusing Klepto. Klepto is intented to be used after casting an ability and then proccing an on-hit effect. Nasus doesn't proc Klepto in another way, he is using an ability and proccing an on-hit effect. He just synergizes very well with the rune but doesn't abuse it.
Unless you define having extremely well synergie with something as abuse then yes he is abusing it. But then half the roster is abusing something in some way or form.
DeadUnborn1 votesabuse comes from using a certain item or rune in a way that is not intended and provokes unhealthy designs or bypasses a champions CORE weaknesses
Nasus is supposed to be a scaling champ. By synergyzing klepto with coin he comes online by the ten minute mark. Hence he abuses it. Klepto is not enhancing nasus' core playstyle, it is warping it into something unhealthy. Coin is a problem as well for sure, but the problem with klepto's random drops is that for people to consider it instead of actual damage it HAS to be overtuned or be exploitable to an unhealthy state. Riot has stated they don't want troll or trap runes (i.e runes that suck but are fun). therefore there is not place for klepto
nelogis1 votesI never said that Klepto is balanced, I agree that it is overtuned. And he has to come online in the 10 minute mark because the ADC does it after BF Sword + Zeal item and you might as well troll if your champ doesn't have an impact by that time.
But ask yourself this question "After nerfing Klepto and removing the coin thing will he still be like this?"
If yes then something core is wrong with Klepto or Nasus (Then you would have to compare Klepto with other champs and if the problem occurs there too then Klepto is the problem or vice versa Nasus is the problem)
If no then he is just using something overtuned that needs nerfing
And Klepto isn't a troll or trap rune. What else am I going to run on GP? It's Riots fault for not letting me chose between ANYTHING...
Here is what I think Klepto needs
Remove every consumable other than HP-Pot / Mana-Pot / Green-Ward / Pink-Ward Up the general Gold income of the Rune (since gold bags and higher value consumables are gone) This reduces RNG and Klepto is easier to balance
DeadUnborn1 votesI never said that Klepto is balanced, I agree that it is overtuned. And he has to come online in the 10 minute mark because the ADC does it after BF Sword + Zeal item and you might as well troll if your champ doesn't have an impact by that time.
But ask yourself this question "After nerfing Klepto and removing the coin thing will he still be like this?"
If yes then something core is wrong with Klepto or Nasus (Then you would have to compare Klepto with other champs and if the problem occurs there too then Klepto is the problem or vice versa Nasus is the problem)
Did you read the OP? my point exactly is that Klepto is the problem and no amount of tunning will put it in a good place. It will always over or underperform
And Klepto isn't a troll or trap rune.
Again did you read thorougly? My point is that when klepto is underperforming it would be a trap rune, and Riot wouldn't want to leave it in that state
What else am I going to run on GP? It's Riots fault for not letting me chose between ANYTHING...
Irrelevant argument. Whether more rune options are needed is a separate issue (IMO new runes are needed). That being said GP can take grasp, meteor, aery and thunderlords, however klepto is the optimal choice right now because of how broken it is
Remove every consumable other than HP-Pot / Mana-Pot / Green-Ward / Pink-Ward Up the general Gold income of the Rune (since gold bags and higher value consumables are gone)
So you want the rune to give you free lane sustain while catapulting you to a strong mid lane without committing to all ins? sorry that is not balanced as a rune mechanic (no way to balance high and low end users).
nelogis1 votesYes I read it and I think reducing the RNG element and generalizing the gold income is the way to balance/tune this rune out
So it doesn't "underperform" or "overperform" the general strength of this rune would be generalized like any other rune
The rune already gives you lane sustain but with this it would ONLY give you lane sustain because of right now you can get red elixier and red strength pot and gain like 30 AD and fuck over anything while having a gold income rune.
Also I didn't say it should give you 50g a proc but upping it from 5 to 10 (maybe differenciate melee and range users) might be a deal since that was the old bandit rune but since bandit rune was a lower tier rune you now have the sustain too to up the tier to a Keystone rune.
You sacrifice offensive runes to outsustain your lane opponent. You are fragile to all ins.
Taking this rune has clear disadvantages if it didn't then every single champion in every single role would take it.
DeadUnborn1 voteswhy did you say 5 to 10 g? why not 7 or 12? You have no clue what is little G and what isn´t. how often should the pots spawn on average. how do you differentiate cases where a champ might proc the ability every 4 seconds during laning phase from those cases when the proc is not as reliable. Keep in mind Inspiration gives you extra sustain from consumables as a passive.... You can't be fragile to all ins if you take resolve second for extra tankiness and sustain all your health back up btw...
nelogis1 votesI said 10g because I took the old rune Bandit as a reference since it was a very well balanced one (it was 3g on range and 10g on melee) and nobody complained about that one catapulting people into mid-game.
You can normalize the rate to "every second/third proc" and make each of the 4 consumables 25% RNG drop (I guess you need some RNG with this rune).
Well then maybe that champion shouldn't use Klepto? If you can't proc it reliably then this rune isn't made for that champ, simple as that. Same reason I don't complain about not being able to reliably proc comet as Yi.
Yes but then you hit like a wet noodle and get outraded in every trade and therefore you need more sustain -> the circle closes itslef out in that regard
DeadUnborn1 votes1.- you really under estimate passive rune buffs. notice I said "take sesolve second
2.- Bandit has an internal cap, a Keystone can't have that without being underpowered
3.- each 2/3 procs giving a consumable on average?! *checks player rank
Gold 3 seasons and jumps barely to D5, (suspicion intensifies, checks match history)
30% win rate on GP with Klepto on the last 10 games, but last season you had a 73% win rate on him... after 3 seasons being hard gold stuck. Don't mean to slander but it is obvious you are inexperienced and got eloboosted dude...
nelogis1 votesHuh?
No I DONT underestimate it AT ALL it gives you 130hp and ABSOLUTELY no offensive stats. Have you actually played the game in this preseason? You think that this measly 130hp + 5 armor or 6 MR is going to make any big difference in your survivability? yeah you can survive 3 or 4 more autos congratufuckinglations!
Bandit NEVER had a cap! It had a cooldown of like 3 or 4 seconds cant remember right. You do realize im talking about pre-rune-rework Bandit?!
Ever heard of something like an idea? imagine but just imagine that someone could actually take that and make it 4 or 5 0.0! I know I know CRAZY right?!
If you think im boosted that is on your own maybe check how many games I had played season 6 and 5 in rankeds (around 13 games in season 6 by the way). Never liked ranked, first time I ever truly played ranked was in season 7.
Also you might want to check how many normals I had played with Gangplank to practice him before starting rankeds. I have gathered around 800K points on Gangplank almost only in Season 7. But I guess just making an assumption and blaming the other guy "for not knowing the game" is easier than making valid points ey lad?
DeadUnborn1 votesoh no no, I based "the other guy doesn't know the game" on your "fix" propostion. I find it weird that you would have a resent 22% winrate on GP after having a 76% win rate last season (it is VERY weird)
a 4 second CD is a cap in case you didn't know
130 hp absolutely nothing? specially coupled with second wind... nothing? ok I'm done
nelogis1 votesI find it funny from where you are getting that winrate from
In the past 20 games I have played Gangplank 16 times and won 11 out of 16 That puts it in a 69% (hehe) Winrate bud.
Tell me what the fuck procs Bandit / Klepto faster than a 4 seconds window between each proc? Ez Q maybe if you are AFK and not standing behind minions?
And don't come up with "Nasus in his ult" he has to ult for that. The only thing that comes to my mind thats using Klepto is Draven and he has to use a buttload of mana to do it.
But I see based on your other comments here that you are stubborn and unable to accept/understand any other opinion. On which case I have to ask you why you even made a threat to DISCUSS stuff?! To fuel your own ego if someone finally agrees with you?
Escheton1 votessure thing
http://champion.gg/champion/Nasus/Top?
he abuses it because his Q has a very accesible CD, he scales harder with CDR than illaoi thanks to perma W slow and gets insane ammounts of gold between coin and klepto
He would need to walk up and hit you with it, a lot. Giving up stacks, and risking minion dmg and counter attacks. It only works vs very specific match-ups.
DeadUnborn1 votesdid you look at the win rates?
that rune path has 59.24% Win Rate accross 6107 Games. It only works vs very specific match-ups my hairy butt
Escheton1 votesdid you look at the win rates?
that rune path has 59.24% Win Rate accross 6107 Games. It only works vs very specific match-ups my hairy butt
Right, because Nasus is objectively strong right now because he just had a new skin out. Some matches it's better to go Grasp, some Klepto is better. Hell even Comet and Fleet footwork function. And he gets to pick which to take based on the match-up. Skewing the numbers towards the keystones, because is is simply more likely to win.
If you are gonna cite statistics, take your blinders off and actually try to understand the data.
DeadUnborn1 votesblinders? understand the data? 59.32% Win Rate with 6241 won games is Nasus most common build, not his higest win rate one... and it is bonkers
https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Nasus/
You pretty much just talked out of your butt and wanted me to eat it without question. Grasp has 5% les win rate than klepto and it only goes down from there
Also the way Riot works balance has no communication with skins, so there is no connection there, you are just saying kid stuff. For example see how Cassio got nerfed just before she got her new skin after I don't know how many years. People just draw the connection between win rate and new skins when it coincides and don't notice when it doesn't
Manayu1 votesIt was nerfed, Nasus is still going as wild as before.
nelogis1 votesholy shit dude this comment is a month old did you wait for the right moment all this time or what?
Bad news for ye it isn't the right moment
Nasus has a 49.52% WR he is perfectly balanced
(His design is still crap but it's balanced I guess)