Is 10 bans really too much to ask for with 130 champions.

Tentakill Myself·Feb 5, 2016·187 votes·6,705 views

Each role has at least 20 champs that are viable in it. It would be impossible to ban out an entire ROLE and might even add more diverse gameplay.

152 Comments

Vanic998Feb 5, 201629 votes

Technically, they're 129 champions but i agree anyway. Riot would have to increase the amount of champions owned to do ranked from 16 to about 20 though.

XIII VanitasFeb 5, 201618 votes

Way better for inexperienced players that just hit level 30 and are already rushing ranked games.

NiyxFeb 6, 20162 votes

inexperienced FTFY

Alex SloanFeb 5, 201616 votes

Nope, at the point we are at right now, I believe the game NEEDS 10 bans.

NiaphimFeb 5, 201614 votes

I don't understand this "But new players will have to grind more to get into ranked". As if they didn't have to LEARN twice as many champions (at least their abilities, to play against them) compared to s1-s2.

GreatLichtFeb 5, 20164 votes

{quoted}

I don't understand this "But new players will have to grind more to get into ranked". As if they didn't have to LEARN twice as many champions (at least their abilities, to play against them) compared to s1-s2.

Agreed, New players need to spend a lot of time in normals to improve their skills on champs and roles if they want to climb out of bronze/silver otherwise stuck in bronze 5 forever, plus about smurf accounts they should grind normals a lot and could have get chance to learn new champs they haven't done on their main accounts. So required amount of champs in order to enter ranked games is pointless and let increases amounts of champs to have for requirement to meet to enter ranked games so we can have 10 bans.

arc95Feb 5, 20168 votes

not 10 maybe 8 but 6 is good...you need to remember not all 130 champions are viable and under 1/2 are actually good enough to warrant picks/bans in a game were you actually trying to win...and of those pick-able champs many aren't ban "worthy"(many supports and situational picks) regardless of the amount of bans

like how often do you see Fiddlesticks Galio Gragas Sivir Urgot Yorick Cassiopeia Velkoz Swain Karthus etc

Itadaki SeiekiFeb 5, 20164 votes

{quoted}

not 10 maybe 8 but 6 is good...you need to remember not all 130 champions are viable and under 1/2 are actually good enough to warrant picks/bans in a game were you actually trying to win...and of those pick-able champs many aren't ban "worthy"(many supports and situational picks) regardless of the amount of bans

like how often do you see etc

My Bard has seen bans, and I get Urgot banned sometimes when I play really well in Bronze/Silver.

" aren't ban 'worthy' " Isn't a thing. People just never see them do any good so they don't ban them out. My Bard gets occasionally banned after trouncing an enemy team with style.

ShifuneFeb 5, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bard and Soul,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LtVr15ej,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2016-02-05T20:41:43.777+0000)

My Bard has seen bans, and I get Urgot banned sometimes when I play really well in Bronze/Silver.

" aren't ban 'worthy' " Isn't a thing. People just never see them do any good so they don't ban them out. My Bard gets occasionally banned after trouncing an enemy team with style.

Trust me, in low elo, no one is banning a champion because of you. You imply that these champions are banned because of something you did, which I can almost guarantee isn't the case in low elo.

RavenstikerFeb 5, 20163 votes

{quoted}

not 10 maybe 8 but 6 is good...you need to remember not all 130 champions are viable and under 1/2 are actually good enough to warrant picks/bans in a game were you actually trying to win...and of those pick-able champs many aren't ban "worthy"(many supports and situational picks) regardless of the amount of bans

like how often do you see etc

You see Sivir Cassiopeia and Gragas quite often though

MazerRackhemFeb 6, 20165 votes

{quoted}

not 10 maybe 8 but 6 is good...you need to remember not all 130 champions are viable and under 1/2 are actually good enough to warrant picks/bans in a game were you actually trying to win...and of those pick-able champs many aren't ban "worthy"(many supports and situational picks) regardless of the amount of bans

like how often do you see etc

Gragas was #1 jungle until preseason, Sivir was a top picked adc last season, Urgot was a highly contested mid pid for about 4 weeks, and Cass, Swain, and Karthus all showed up in pro play (meaning they're viable) at least once last season. That is just last season.

Frankly, there are a few champs that are too weak to show up in Diamond play, but the RIOT has done a good job with balance for the most part and most champs are viable at the top level. More importantly ALL champs are viable below Diamond. I have seen Diamond players wreck on absurd champs that never get picked up. If you're not diamond and you know how to play a champ to its full potential, it is viable no matter who it is.

BastionKrossFeb 5, 20167 votes

The main arguments against it seem to be:

But you can ban an entire role!

No, you can't. Even if all five members of both teams decided to all ban a certain role (something that would probably not happen often if at all) ten bans could not ban out an entire role.

But now you need more champs to get into ranked!

We've all seen the people that hit level 30 and leap right into ranked and feed because they weren't ready. And if you're smurfing, part of the price for smurfing is leveling your account to 30 and buying all the champs and runes needed to play ranked. This is a problem that should be solved with better IP gains, not less bans.

But pros can have their champs banned out!

If a pro is defeated by five bans, then he's not much of a pro. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask a pro to be proficient with more than a handful of champs at any given time. If you ban out all of one player's mains, you have left the other four players on the team their mains. And it's not like pro matches can't just keep the six bans if pros complain too much anyway.

Gregor GysiFeb 5, 20163 votes

You want status quo to be changed. You have to tell me why. I don't have to tell you why not.

But so many OP champs!

Assuming people do actually ban the "OP champs": OP tier -> deleted. Tier 1 -> OP tier. Tier 2 -> Tier 1 and so on. No gains.

Assuming people do not ban the "OP champs": It's worthless then anyways.

But there are way more champions back when 6 bans was decided!

Your point?

But it looks better on the new champ select!

So what.

"More diverse gameplay" (OP)

How? The amount of champions available decreases. Balance rotations are going to do the metashifting anyways, no need for more bans.

5000000000000000Feb 6, 20165 votes

Bans are meant to get rid of your counters or just champions you don't want to deal with. Right now, OP champions are a thing so bans are used to get rid of those. Maybe as a top main, you don't want to deal with Fiora, regardless of whether she's OP at the time or not. That ban isn't worthless, since that increases your chance of success too. And more bans would increase diversity instead of the top 16 pick/ban champs, we'll have top 20 pick/ban champs. The concept of "power pick" wouldn't exist--at least not as much as it is now.

GypsyleeboyFeb 6, 20166 votes

Hello, thread that's been made hundred of times but no one ever realizes it'll never happen! I'll just upvote this and be on my way, good luck for the 100th time.

SociopathFriendFeb 5, 20165 votes

So apparently not everyone thinks of this- so I'm just gonna leave this here.

Current champion requirements for Ranked: 16 champions owned That's 5 champions on your team, plus the 3 bans. Times 2, so 16. Currently the IP cost of that would be, at minimum. 12 x 450 = 5400 4 x 1350 = 5400 For a total of 10800 IP. That's bare bones too, you wouldn't have a single Assassins at all if I remember right. And it assumes you didn't buy a single rune.

Now let's say they increase this amount: Still 5 champions on your team, but now with 5 bans instead of 3. Times 2, that's 20 champions. 12 x 450 = 5400 8 x 1350 = 10800 For a total of 16200 IP. That's 50% more of a requirement just because you want more bans. And it assumes you bought no runes at all and never bought a single champion that wasn't the cheapest possible.

The game is already known to be very hard to get into- how is making Ranked even more difficult to join going to help this problem that already is acknowledged to exist?

And why should you be given more bans anyways? There are not 10 OP champions at any given time. Bans are for the extreme cases that are just blatantly too strong- not champions you think are too strong or don't want to deal with. Edit: And actually I'm pretty sure you can ban out an entire role with 10 bans, or at least all the viable champions of the role.

UirayaFeb 5, 201624 votes

This is mostly wrong.

The "get into" argument is for the game in general, not ranked. Ranked is FAR TOO EASY to get into right now, and SHOULD be tightened up in several areas. You can spend barely 10k IP in champs and jump into ranked, and then lose every game because you're an idiot who doesn't know the first thing about how the game operates. That's an argument for locking it down, not preventing needed game functions like more bans.

Secondly, bans are exactly intended to ban out problem champs for your strategy- that's code for "shit you don't want to deal with". But when you have as many broken nonsense champs as this game does, it becomes "work out what the ban meta is and follow it unless you try to get one of them yourself". Since the balance team has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that their one priority is keeping LCS big plays champs in vogue and that they couldn't care less about the state of the game for the rest of us this problem is not going to go away anytime soon. Ten bans should be seen as a minimum.

edit: Also, the "ban out an entire role" argument is complete nonsense. For this to happen, you would need 10 players to have the same idea at the same time (remember, teams cannot communicate) and the second player decides to go for it after a single ban. This simply isn't going to happen in the real world, and even if the stars align and it does ONCE, who the hell cares? Both teams are now at the same disadvantage.

plantersFeb 6, 20163 votes

While im not necessarily in the camp of adding more bans, I feel to some extent you just need to learn how to play against some things, some people will spend money on champs and with the soon to arrive hextech crafting, it will be fairly easy to get more champions. Maybe not a cake walk but much more doable than it is now.

Poptart EvelynnFeb 5, 20165 votes

The reasoning for only 6 bans is competitive play where they could ban a players entire champ pool with 4-5 bans.

But solo que bans should be treated differently.

willuwontuFeb 6, 20165 votes

Really, 20 viable champs? Name 20 Viable Supports and ADCS. Go ahead I'm waiting.

RendarkanFeb 6, 20167 votes

Supports/ Off Meta Supports Bard Blitzcrank Braum JarvanIV Kayle Maokai Lux Malphite Nami Morgana TahmKench Thresh Rammus Volibear Annie Anivia Amumu Alistar Chogath

ADC/Off Meta ADC Ashe Caitlyn Corki Draven Ezreal Graves Gnar Jinx Jhin MissFortune Kindred Orianna Nidalee Lucian Lulu Teemo Varus Vayne TwistedFate Twitch

I'm sure I missed a few dedicated supports like Galio and Leona and a few other ADC's.

ElewdFeb 6, 20163 votes

Teemo and Nidalee arn't Adc's, Anivia doesnt work as a support, mana costs are too high, replace that with Zyra. Galio can't support for same reason as Anivia, and he has no real peel besides his ulti, his shield heals him.

RendarkanFeb 6, 20163 votes

I said Off Meta as well. Any ranged AP like Teemo and Nidalee can build item 3115 and boom your AD damage is compensated for.

Anivia is good for a more experienced Anivia player who can land the stuns to set up easy kill and can force flashes with her wall/ create gaps for escape. Galio falls in the category of this as well and requires extended knowledge of his kit.

ElewdFeb 6, 20162 votes

i would've listed kayle and jayce over teemo and nidalee tho. and for supports you didn't even list Sorakka Sona or Janna, who are meant to be supports.

RendarkanFeb 6, 20163 votes

I did say i probably missed a few of the dedicated sups.

elon wątrobaFeb 6, 20162 votes

Half of them aren't viable, good luck with marksman orianna on bot lane.

RendarkanFeb 6, 20162 votes

It's not as hard as you think. item 3115 is an AP AA best friend. It doesn't hinder your ability to output damage and Ori's passive also adds extra damage for consecutive AA on enemies. The Ball of her skills adds to her overall ability to attack, defend, and slow enemies. Her ult can also be used as an execute on squishy enemies and as a defensive mechanic against chasers.

elon wątrobaFeb 6, 20162 votes

Marksman not gimlicky on-hit build :D.

willuwontuFeb 6, 20163 votes

Note the Viable that means they should be Viable Off meta picks are not typically viable. However props for trying.

Supports: Galio, aniv, j4, are definitely not viable like yi and yasuo supp isn't, cho'gath is not really viable despite how awesome he is (them mana costs or he would be) i'll give you that you missed leona, and came up with a list that's pretty much accurate.

Adcs:

Orianna adc? This ain't season 1/2, Kindred definitely is not viable as an adc, that's like saying mordekaiser still work (HInt: it doesn't), TF adc isn't truly viable as an adc, same for gnar and nid. That's like saying ahri adc is real (it is, just not viable). I'll give you that lulu works, but gets more inefficient as the game goes on. And as for teemo **** him. Just because a champion has a ranged attack doesn't mean they are an adc. Also You missed Quinn.

RendarkanFeb 6, 20168 votes

Malicious can back me up on this one. Morde isn't an ADC.

Aside from that it takes the know how and right ADC/Support team to pull it off. You just don't send Nid into bottom lane and tell her good luck with a support that doesn't work well with her. Same goes for TF and Gnar. It takes extensive know how and skill to make it work. Amost all those champions i put in have some form of long range poke ability that can also be used as a high damage output/execute. Kindred can be played as an ADC and can be done successfully but you would have to sacrifice high amounts of stacks off your passive and snag a few from enemy Gromp/Blue Buff or the Scuttler near bot lane. Ahri wouldn't work like TF, Gnar, or Nid because of the fact she relies on ability spam over auto attacking and lacks several passive buffs those peticular champs have. Gnar's three hit passive, TF's E, and Nid's passive mark then cat form rape ability. For Orianna see above.

As for Teemo I don't see why people hate on him other than the fact that he was one of the few rare stealth champions in S1/2. He is very easily countered now and quite frankly is really fun to play against.

For the support part of your counter case Galio, J4, Anivia are far more capable to support than Yas or Yi simply because they have abilities that can benefit as support. Cho'gath is also a viable off meta support as he uses relic shield well and has an AoE knock up, slow, and silence that can keep his ADC on the better side of their health bar. Yas isn't a reliable support as his wall takes too long on cooldown and he takes away from his murder power. Anyone who plays Yi support is an idiot as he isn't designed to be one. Like Yas, he is a straight murder champ.

theArtifactsFeb 6, 20165 votes

How about NO BANS. Then all op champs can fight each other until they get nerfed.

SKT T1 Maddog98Feb 6, 201636 votes

That's called Blind Pick

BattalionFeb 6, 20163 votes

For whenever you want to see how OP Graves Jungle is...You can fight another Graves Jungle, to camp your double Fiora top lane. Maybe waltz on down to the Corki - Yasuo mid lane. and have a jolly time as you see Tahm Kench (v) mark the map and pop up for the gank on the Vayne and Janna bot lane, with his Lucian.

CppLFeb 5, 20164 votes

8 bans would be enough ,at the begining.

Shyvana ViJannaFeb 5, 20166 votes

I agree with eight. Ten bans seem too much right now.

Melinda MayFeb 5, 20163 votes

{quoted}

8 bans would be enough ,at the begining.

Agree, they could at least start with 8.

EdMurphFeb 5, 20161 votes

Jax, Mundo, Jhin, Fizz- I see those bans every match. This only leaves open space for 2 more bans and one of those is USUALLY Illaoi... Definitely up the bans to 8.

RogueWillFeb 6, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Jax, Mundo, Jhin, Fizz- I see those bans every match. This only leaves open space for 2 more bans and one of those is USUALLY Illaoi... Definitely up the bans to 8.

I don't remember when was the last time I saw Illaoi picked or played. She just doesn't work unless the enemy pick a dive in composition

I AM BRUCE VAYNEFeb 5, 20164 votes

I agree. with all the new champs, I feel each player should get a ban vote.

MadraFeb 5, 20164 votes

10 bans would be good.

SecretlolzFeb 6, 20164 votes

IF they stopped being so scared about nerfing popular and unfun champions harshly, this wouldn't be an issue. Why are Graves, Lucian, Lee Sin, Ahri, Thresh and Co allowed to continue being so good while everyone else recieves a crippling nerf the second they become good ?

But sadly the balance team is pretty incompetent adressing problems correctly, so yeah we need 10 bans -.-" maybe more

1 800 MID LANEFeb 6, 20163 votes

I talked to so many mid lane mains who were excited to see something other than Azir/Viktor/Orianna/Lulu mid in LCS. This sort of thing would make LCS vastly more interesting and, as Riot's track-record shows, that should be spot-on of what they want.

Take Not8sFeb 6, 20162 votes

wut in the mother fudge are you talkin about I see azir viktor oranna lulu once maby every 50 games played

Lost HpFeb 6, 20162 votes

So if i ban your most 5 played champion what woud you do?

Beside can you say your on the same lvl of gameplay with this 6 champion?

What woud you do if all 10 bans are targets at rolls Caitlyn MissFortune Quinn Draven Jinx Tristana Ashe KogMaw Lucian Corki

Alistar Bard Blitzcrank Thresh Nami Soraka Sona Janna Leona TahmKench

not to forget a team coud pick the remaining champions before you have the chance

PokkuFeb 6, 20168 votes

Now that bans are split, I don't think 10 total bans would be a big issue. The probability that a role is completely banned is non-existent. And if it happens, it would just be a creative and refreshing game!

ADCs open after the bans you listed above: Twitch Ezreal Jhin Varus Vayne Sivir ( Urgot Kennen Mordekaiser ) Supports open after those listed above: Karma Zyra Taric Braum Nunu Zilean Lulu ( Lux Anivia Fiddlesticks ) So still a plenty of options, and finally not the same champions every game.

PeachsPropertyFeb 6, 20161 votes

"lets ban 10 champs!"

all free week champs are banned

player #5 only bought champions that are currently on free week and now has no champion they can play and is forced to watch the timer whittle down and be punished for not choosing a champion