This is what happens when teemo gets buffed, just no, just fucking no.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bc3xhk97o48
rework or gtfo, no straight up buffs
Morello himself used to say that teemo as-is is not really meant to be competitive and there are/were no real plans to fix this.
If you want teemo buffs first demand a rework with competitive play in mind
Marshbouy2 voteshe cannot be slightly above average without being oppressive. RIOT will not let him completely go to the shitter, he is too much of a mascot.
Llanite2 votesSo what happened when Teemo got buffed? Someone played him?
CerealBoxOfDoom2 votesSo what happened when Teemo got buffed? Someone played him?
they didn't just play him
They created a scenario where the game simply wasn't all that fun to watch or play. They played a very toxic game of attrition. They made it so that the supposed counters could barely give them an inch to actually even play the game only to get starved out while teemo barely even split pushed.. he just kindof played with himself the whole match. It isn't what league of legends is designed to be. Its toxic as in "bad for the game itself regardless of whether or not its balanced"
imbalanced example - this attack instagibs anyone it hits, this is significantly more powerful than anything else and cant really be avoided. While this is toxic its toxic specifically because its imbalanced, imbalance is a form of toxicity.
general toxicity - this ability stops anyone from playing the game while red trinket is on cooldown. Until red trinket is up just alt + tab and watch some porn you don't get to play right now.
Llanite1 votesNope?
TSM could not make a move as Teemo's team camped the forest with him, while TSM could not seem to stick with each other. All the shrooms do is some damages (which is 1/2 dmg of most ult) and a slow, any non-squishy can easily step on 10 of them and still walk.
TSM was so behind that they could not afford a head-on fight, whether C9 mid is Teemo, Urgot or Yorick is irrelevant.
CerealBoxOfDoom2 votesNope?
TSM could not make a move as Teemo's team camped the forest with him, while TSM could not seem to stick with each other. All the shrooms do is some damages (which is 1/2 dmg of most ult) and a slow, any non-squishy can easily step on 10 of them and still walk.
TSM was so behind that they could not afford a head-on fight, whether C9 mid is Teemo, Urgot or Yorick is irrelevant.
and the other 99.99% of the playerbase will do any better than TSM did for whatever reason after they didn't do so well for whatever reason?
Even if it was some unexpectedly bad game at the end of the day, pro players with red trinkets still got stuck in a toxic and suffocating gameplay pattern that rewarded the other team because of teemo. Even assuming you are a professional game analyst the history of the champ does not support unconditional buffs.
Llanite1 votes99.9999999999999999% of the playerbase will do as badly or worse than being that behind during their laning, which has nothing to do with Teemo (i.e. he was 1/3/x)
Later on, they would not fight due to C9 gold and level advantage, which again, has nothing to do with Teemo. You can replace Teemo with a 1/3 Urgot and the same scenarios would take place. TSM did not fight simply because they cannot afford to, not because there was a 400 dmg shroom lied somewhere in a bush.
Lastly, you do not need red trinket to deal with Teemo shroom in an organized team, all you have to do is follow each other like a train, with the tank going in first (like youre supposed to)
CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes99.9999999999999999% of the playerbase will do as badly or worse than being that behind during their laning, which has nothing to do with Teemo (i.e. he was 1/3/x)
Later on, they would not fight due to C9 gold and level advantage, which again, has nothing to do with Teemo. You can replace Teemo with a 1/3 Urgot and the same scenarios would take place. TSM did not fight simply because they cannot afford to, not because there was a 400 dmg shroom lied somewhere in a bush.
Lastly, you do not need red trinket to deal with Teemo shroom in an organized team, all you have to do is follow each other like a train, with the tank going in first.
that has everything to do with teemo. Urgot is also toxic in his own way.
In the urgot case they wont play because they are afraid they'll get grabbed but they will still go punch jungle creeps because they have some idea if they are being watched or not
In the teemo case they can't tell if the enemy can see anything. The wards are replaced so easy and now teemo can toss his shrooms, we was already buffed and they want more buffs now because no healthy amount of buffs will ever be enough to satisfy anyone.
Teemo is not a healthy champ. Niether is urgot but at least you can try without getting rek'd from across the map against urgot.
urgot makes broke plays teemo just says "no playing"
Llanite1 votesThey also cannot tell whether there is a ward near said jungle creeps and people waiting to punch them. Teemo doesn't invent vision, simply amplify it.
If your team is so behind that you are smoked out like mice, it's time to call it quit. Teemo being better at that game doesn't make him "broken", simply put, you fell into the area he is strong at.
CerealBoxOfDoom1 votesThey also cannot tell whether there is a ward near said jungle creeps and people waiting to punch them. Teemo doesn't invent vision, simply amplify it.
If your team is so behind that you are smoked out like mice, it's time to call it quit. Teemo being better at that game doesn't make him "broken", simply put, you fell into the area he is strong at.
I didn't say he was broken, I said he was toxic
again, a ward does not make it inadvisable to even attempt to play
a teemo shroom makes it advisable to sit at your base until the red trinket is up
normal wards do not attack you. Normal wards do not attack you after the placer dies or when they start chasing you.
The amount of control teemo shrooms gives changes things to the point where even won teamfights just have to stop because you can't risk just getting your ass rek'd cuz its changing locations. You just don't get to play. Unless you have found and disarmed the shrooms across the map, even if teemo has been sitting and trolling at base you literally cannot take for granted that one of your teammates wont just slow down and start to die suddenly even though you have the area warded now.
Teemo is the poster child of hidden and unclear power. You cannot quantify the power shrooms give just like you can't quantify the value of stealth. No you really can't call teemo OP because there's no way to measure whether or not he's OP. That is how toxic teemo is to this game and why he cannot be buffed without a rework.
Whether or not teemo is OP is completely irrelevant, teemo is toxic to gameplay.
Valor Bot1 votesIsn't 'fun' subjective though? Some people enjoy playing against certain Champions, while others don't. Personally, I don't really have fun playing against any Champion so long as I'm losing badly, unless I try to make it fun for myself somehow (i.e. not taking myself too seriously, joking around with the enemy, etc.)
If you're trying to say that Teemo was overpowered in this state, then we can have a conversation from there and begin to gauge what exactly was making him too powerful. But there's a big difference between this and 'not fun to play against.'
CerealBoxOfDoom1 votes[{quoted}](name=Valor Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LslQAcNP,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2016-06-29T01:56:22.835+0000)
Isn't 'fun' subjective though?
literally speaking yes
from a design perspective calling it "anti-fun" is a short version of a much more complicated subject.
If you make it so that the players have to gauge their eyes out to win some players will do it and they will say its fun. That doesn't make it a good idea and it is not healthy for the game in general to leave one's players without eyeballs.
Some people enjoy playing against certain Champions, while others don't. Personally, I don't really have fun playing against any Champion so long as I'm losing badly, unless I try to make it fun for myself somehow (i.e. not taking myself too seriously, joking around with the enemy, etc.)
If you're trying to say that Teemo was overpowered in this state, then we can have a conversation from there and begin to gauge what exactly was making him too powerful. But there's a big difference between this and 'not fun to play against.'
again the same two issues
You literally cannot gauge teemo's power. Unless you're going to try and tell me what the worth of information is you cannot gauge teemo's power. What is the worth of knowing 10 places the enemy isn't at? That's not the same as dealing damage. If irelia deals too much damage you can tone her damage down. What is too much damage? You can measure this. You can't measure the worth of information advantage. And then it does even more. He's got that stealth and his shrooms are stealthed so you don't know if you've found them or if you passed them by or HIM for that matter. The real problem comes when he isn't doing anything at all, you can't just assume anything. If he puts all his shrooms in bot you still can't move freely in top even if you've all but won a teamfight. That's global pressure coming from the nature of his kit. You cannot just balance this away.
This is why they nerfed the karthus ult cooldown for example.
It was perfectly balanced but the cooldown was so low that the pros would avoid doing anything when karthus was on the enemy team and the games would simply extend into oblivion and nobody would do anything interesting. Its oppressive and suffocating, as in nobody gets room to breathe. There's no time for fun and no room to have any in. The window of opportunity in that case could be measured however, its even worse in teemo's case since teemo doesn't announce to the world "hey look the window of opportunity has opened" all you get from teemo is "hey look you found one or 2 or 4 I don't care I've got another batch waiting on you"
But then on top of all that you don't even necessarily know how many you stepped on. Don't blink, don't look away, don't move your camera for shit or you'll miss it. Teemo is also a case of readability issues. Sometimes you wont even realize what happened to you, that hidden power again. Especially if its in the middle of a teamfight or youre busy with something else.
again, teemo can be buffed, just not as-is. He would REQUIRE a rework for this
MunchCrunchLunch1 votesbut them teemo skins?.
he just needs an escape and that is all.