Let's talk about Ahri.

Lao Fu the Tiger··9 votes·1,185 views

I am not one to rush to conclusions without testing first. That said, I'll admit, I haven't tried Ahri on the PBE yet, but I plan to as soon as possible.

From a theoretical standpoint, however, I'm simply curious. Let's compare pre-DFG removal and PBE Ahri.

After her rework, here are the effective buffs:

  • Move speed on Q.
  • .15 extra AP scaling on Charm.
  • Better Foxfire targeting.

And her effective needs:

  • No damage amplification
  • Higher mana costs for her already small mana pool.
  • Less range on Foxfires (150, even).

I understand the desire to make her a kiting mage. It's different, but not necessarily weak. However, how much is the MS boost on her Q worth in comparison to the power of her other abilities? Is it worth these nerfs?

EDIT: Okay, so after trying her (albeit against a relatively weak opposing team), she still FEELS good. Her W range definitely seems to be hit a little too hard, and you can definitely feel the hit with the extra mana costs. However, as far as her kiting potential and trading potential go, she's actually not too far off.

Discuss :)

10 Comments

Sir ArmaMalum2 votes

If I could possibly reword your ending to "how much is the MS boost on her Q worth?" I think that's the real question here. Personally I value it very high, because it is a sudden burst of movement, relatively spammable and is on top of her ult's 3 large (and now more reliable) dashes. Others may not value it as high because in their opinion they cannot capitalize on it without enough damage.

Thus the discrepancies in views whenever utility is involved, because it's incredibly reliant on the skill of the overall match-up. A skilled Ahri player can use it to amazing (and oppressive) effectiveness, but the smaller the skill gap is the less that utility makes a difference. Because a skilled opponent will be able to trade/dodge/position better.

Lao Fu the Tiger1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir ArmaMalum,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LoReULZn,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-02-02T22:44:26.603+0000)

If I could possibly reword your ending to "how much is the MS boost on her Q worth?" I think that's the real question here. Personally I value it very high, because it is a sudden burst of movement, relatively spammable and is on top of her ult's 3 large (and now more reliable) dashes. Others may not value it as high because in their opinion they cannot capitalize on it without enough damage.

Thus the discrepancies in views whenever utility is involved, because it's incredibly reliant on the skill of the overall match-up. A skilled Ahri player can use it to amazing (and oppressive) effectiveness, but the smaller the skill gap is the less that utility makes a difference. Because a skilled opponent will be able to trade/dodge/position better.

I agree. I'll actually edit my post to your wording.

Like said, I'm in queue now to try her out on the PBE. She could be relatively decent. I don't claim to be an avid Ahri player, nor have I been, but I did enjoy her kit pre-rework, I've enjoyed it up to this point, and we will see how I enjoy it now.

Sir ArmaMalum1 votes

Good stuff. And thank you for making a discussion focused thread that allows for iteration on both sides, we need more people like you here.

Avalon Bright1 votes

Then what they need to do is get rid of the move speed. Sure it's fine and kind of cool but she's gone four years without it. Fix the lack of DFG in another way. But it is absolutely insane to completely gut her most used skill. It's going to kill her farming, kill her damage, kill her sustainability, and just wreck her already subpar early game. Half of her issues in the past came from the fact her mana is absolutely terrible and a simple combo would leave her almost empty. Now they do exactly that over again, except her damage is completely carved out on top of it. Not to mention issues with this season's already terrible-across-the-board new mana regen.

ValyrianBlade2 votes

Wow... I'm starting to get why everyone on this game seems to hate Riot.

I didn't like the changes in the first place after the DFG removal. W/e, I liked Ahri enough I kept playing her and got used to it. I felt she was weaker than she had been before, but also was safer so it was a fair trade.

Then this. Ouch. That is WAY too fast of a reaction. Seriously, why did Warwick get more than a month (with devourer) and Ahri gets like a week AFTER A COMPLETE CHANGE? I mean, the WW change - nothing about him changed so it's not like players didn't know how to fight him. Ahri has changed considerably and people have no idea what to do. I keep seeing teammates chase her and I'm yelling inside my mind for the idiots to stop. Why in the world would you chase a kite-mage with burst? SERIOUSLY.

The new Ahri is worthless and as soon as people stop chasing her everyone will realize that. She'll be valuable defensively but won't be able to do much offensively. Chasing a full health Ahri is just a stupid idea.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

But so many plays are made in this game because people are dumb and try to chase. Just ask any Singed or Kalista.

SmokingPuffin3 votes

why did Warwick get more than a month (with devourer) and Ahri gets like a week AFTER A COMPLETE CHANGE?

Calendar timing. Like a lot of companies, lots of senior staff at Riot is gone in December and they run with a skeleton crew that's just enough to keep the lights on. Nobody takes vacation in January. It is pretty awkward that Riot decided to make the preseason, a time when they really ought to have all designer hands on deck, happen to coincide with the holidays. Oops.

The new Ahri is worthless and as soon as people stop chasing her everyone will realize that. She'll be valuable defensively but won't be able to do much offensively. Chasing a full health Ahri is just a stupid idea.

I am really impressed with new Ahri's laning strength. I don't think that is going away, and I think that is what is driving her win rate.

Avalon Bright1 votes

Edit: Misread post, thought these were still talking about previous changes.

That said, Riot is simply insane. I have absolutely no idea what they think they're doing or how they even come up with their idea of "balance" anymore. I'm not even going to say they needed to remove the movespeed from Q.

The only thing they need to do is wait more than a bloody WEEK before suddenly completely gutting a champ. People have played against Ahri for four years and now suddenly her entire playstyle is changed, and Riot is somehow insane enough to think her winrates right out of the gate are remotely indicative of where she's going to be in the long run.

Hell, she was at 58% a few days ago and she's already dropped down to 55% today. She already has huge mana issues as is and now basically her only real harass ability is going to be costing as much as an ult at level 9. I don't even have words for how stupid this PBE update is across the board.

76Summers1 votes

im beginning to think that riot regrets making certain champions...look at lee,ahri,irliea man...the list goes on

Llanite1 votes

Then how do you explain the boom in her win rate AND popularity? AFAIK she jumped from 48 to 57% win rate (even at plat/diamond). Dueling suffered, yes, but her laning is much safer and better teamfight presence.

Now if you look at your colleague Fizz who fell from 51% to 42% win rate across ranks.

More from Gameplay

More by Lao Fu the Tiger