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Why Is Tristana Allowed To Have So Much Range?

Best Ekko NA··67 votes·6,388 views

I lose so much to Tristana, that champion feels super oppressive. As someone who plays melee champions, I sincerely feel that she is god damn nearly unreachable. Without Flash, there's no way to get her late game because of her ridiculous range. Then, even if you can reach her, she has too many tools to get away from you. She can Rocket Jump, Flash, or knock you away with Buster Shot.

It's not like Tristana's "kit" is weak by any means. After Tristana's little bomb rework, she gained far more power than she lost. Tristana literally kept every ability in her entire previous kit, with even more added on it. Let me tell you, it really shows too. Not only in professional games.. where she is picked constantly, but also in everyone else's games. According to OP.GG, Tristana is still sitting as the 3rd most winning ADC.. that's even after getting nerfed.

All the players spamming that freelo Tristana will hate me for saying this, but I honestly believe that her extra "range" passive should be removed. Tristana gave up nothing for that extra power on her E and it doesn't feel fair at all that Tristana can have that insane range and also still do massive damage to players and towers (even at the same time), without having to worry because if someone gets close she just jumps back or shoots them away with her ultimate.

Caitlyn is supposed to be the "long range siege" champion in League of Legends, yet she doesn't do anywhere near the damage to towers. Caitlyn can't knock you away, her E animation is fairly slow, she's far weaker than Tristana who wasn't initially even meant to fill that role (and yet does better at the job than a champion supposedly created for it). Sure, it's not really a big deal if there are multiple champions who are "siege" champions, but Tristana simply has way too much range and safety for the amount of damage she deals late game.

Maybe I'm crazy, and this isn't the right answer, but I don't think Tristana will lose much if her range is taken away. She'll still be very strong, the only thing that's going to change is that Tristana players won't be able to just go on auto pilot once they have a lead and fall asleep hitting the A button on everyone from a mile away.

92 Comments

Hayaishi49 votes

She's low risk high reward.

Should literally be gutted and never allowed to be viable again until reworked.

Ahristocats48 votes

tank is not allowed to buffer cc Ornn

marksman is Tristana

[sg-lux-2]

Jet Sett8 votes

It'd make sense if she didn't have the most range, a jump that can go over walls and resets, and a hard knock back. But since she does she should definitely lose one for the sake of health alone.

AirKingNeo4 votes

Ornn can still buffer CC with his W. Instead of being CC immune, the effect still works on him but it doesn't cancel his W.

PB4UAME1 votes

Not even close to true. Played an Ornn game earlier, and Quinn was counter picked into me. she would just Vault every time I tried to W, and it would not damage her even if she went through the flames, would mark me with Harrier, and then would stop my W immediately with its mini-stun. Her auto + Herrier afterwards would break the shield and do health damage beyond, and then she could also chase for another attack or two.

It absolutely gets interrupted by CC, or Quinns Vault is bugged with its interaction.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Maybe only displacements stop it I guess?

Eeyore1 votes

Pretty certain they removed his W being immune to CC - it now just affects him normally, like it affects any channeled ability.

Azadethe3 votes

Tbh trist is extremely high risk. Most kill combos involve W. If she can't get in a kill on it, she's RIP'd. That's pretty easy to play on if you ask me. Save your heals/cc for her dive and stop her from killing her targets. Then kill her while cc'd.

I personally have no problems with Tristana, but I do generally ban her because I know some people in my elo just don't know how to play her.

-if she W's just to get into range of you, you always have the option to run. Throw a CC behind you and increase the distance between you and her.

-If she W's past you to cut you off, she's vulnerable. CC her and play heals, and kill her.

You should NEVER start the engage with Tristana unless you have a teammate who can ambush her behind her from when she tries to W to escape.

It's not like she starts the game with good range. It isn't until she's ~ level 15 and item 3094 that she becomes super dangerous, unless you were bad, fed her in lane, didn't jungle gank her, etc.

In the meantime, Jinx starts the game with massive range and completely owns any game where she goes 2/0..... (I even Grasp of the Undying Jinx, because she can keep it active and proccing the entire laning phase and end the game with 70-100 stacks for an extra 300HP, more damage, and access to anti mage healing like Second Wind and the new Bone Armor, and Overgrowth since she can just get so many cs + hp buffs from it. Works like gangbusters vs Brand Xerath Velkoz supports).

EkyonKun19 votes

{quoted}

Tbh trist is extremely high risk. Most kill combos involve W. If she can't get in a kill on it, she's RIP'd. That's pretty easy to play on if you ask me. Save your heals/cc for her dive and stop her from killing her targets. Then kill her while cc'd.

What I'm hearing is when she engages with W, have your whole team CC her to death.

So what if the Tristana just decides not to int and instead kites back with her superior DPS, burst, mobility, self-peel, and range? What then?

Durzaka7 votes

You do know that compared to other ADCs her "superior DPS" is actually MUCH lower. Just about everyone else has a way to modify the damage they are dealing (Vayne has Silver bolts and tumble boost, Kog has W and Q armor shred, Lucian his passive and skills, Draven his axes, etc. etc.). Tristana JUST has her AAs in that situation. And an increased atk spd (for 7 seconds). But her individual hits are going to do less than just about any other ADC out there because thats how she is actually paying for her range.

DeusVult2 votes

Superior DPS is her Q steroid being the strongest "on-demand" AS steroid in the game, all while she is still incredibly safe.

Also Azadethe seems to think that Trist W only resets CD if she gets a kill with the skill. It doesnt, as long as she gets a takedown (kill OR assist) meaning that she can just use it to re-position safely during a fight and get it to reset.

Which is why shes seen as low risk - high reward. Exceedingly long range, good late game DPS, mobility and self peel, and her reset mechanic doesnt force her to go in, she can use it to reduce risk and still have access to it later.

SooFr0sty2 votes

Fun fact. Resets also if she explodes her e with max stacks

Thilmer2 votes

{quoted}

What I'm hearing is when she engages with W, have your whole team CC her to death.

So what if the Tristana just decides not to int and instead kites back with her superior DPS, burst, mobility, self-peel, and range? What then?

A decent Tristana doesn't use her W to enter a figth until one or two enemies are dead. And by that time the enemy team should be running away if they don't want to get deleted.

IT3etlWEXJ2 votes

People weren't saying this right after rework when she was straight trash, although she has all the same abilities as now

SooFr0sty1 votes

Marksman items have caused these problems, along with support changes

Gamer Gallade19 votes

The biggest problem with Tristana That she is way to safe because of the passive and her jump is also the root of her problem due to how low risk it becomes especially when she gets a kill after wards.

I agree with you that they should remove the bonuses range to make her of a gunhoe dive into the battle field. (Kled is similar but he gives less of a flying fuck compared to Tristanna)

Because if they change replace her passive and her jump a means of a better engage instead of a way of chicking out of the battle.

It should fit her character better. My opinion there at that point.

Azadethe1 votes

She is safe late game but is really prone early game. That's the key. Shut her down early when her range is small. Learn to know when her W is being used offensively vs defensively (if she f's up using it, she's dead, and you can make that happen with summoner 7 or good support heals, barriers, and cc).

Itz Rewind Time6 votes

Except if you shut her down early she just has to wait for late game because she farms extremely efficiently. And even while 3/15 as soon as she's full build level 18 she can turn around and 1 shot people. Her W is only the root of her problem. She's incredibly safe with high burst, potentially three escapes, AND she's one of the best tower shredders in the game.

ModAcademy Kayn3 votes

even while 3/15 as soon as she's full build level 18

Boy, if you can't end a game that has a 3/15 Tristana with full build, I don't think Tristana is the problem.

Daddy Ants3 votes

{quoted}

She is safe late game but is really prone early game. That's the key. Shut her down early when her range is small. Learn to know when her W is being used offensively vs defensively (if she f's up using it, she's dead, and you can make that happen with summoner 7 or good support heals, barriers, and cc).

Good joke.

She's far from vulnerable early game.

Azadethe2 votes

I've been playing support since Season 4. Over 6000 games played. Or rather, I play "fill." I know what enables her and how to stop her. That's been my job in nearly 80% of my games.

Not trying to pick..... but you seem to mainly play adc and not a lot of it at Silver IV. You generally Vayne one trick.... which leads me to ask... given Vayne's own state.... perhaps you're a bit biased since she outranges you and doesn't create a lot of opportunities for Vayne to win? Vayne's one of the lowest range adcs and does far more burst than Tristana.

Your other main is Twitch..... in other words.... you play adcs that are not mobile and bet on auto attack based skills to carry you rather than using spell based adcs like Ezreal Lucian Kalista Sivir, and even though you use the subkit of auto attack builds, you barely pull 50% win rates.

in Season 7 you played Tristana for a total of 9 games..... 1 win 8 losses. That sounds a lot like me playing Tristana lol (I'm a much better support than adc, and Tristana I'm always fearing jumping in with W because I'm not a gambler). But.... yet you're complaining about her when pulling that kind of score.... There has to be a reason she wasn't freelo with you..... just as there is a reason she's not freelo with me.

Her range at level 1 is currently 558. Jinx's is 600. Cait is 650. Ashe is 600. Ezreal is 1125. Kog ma is 630. Miss Fortune is 550 but can use Q to shoot you for half your HP behind a minion. Sivir has a 1250 range on her Q. Twitch during ult is 800 range. Varus range is 575, but all his skills are 900 range +, up to 1675.

Almost every single adc brutalizes Tristana in her early game (except the ones you play; you do play Varus, but rarely)

Ionian Vulpix6 votes

It's funny. When I first started playing in S5. Tristana was garbage and considered to be one of the worst champions in the game. The only change she received since then (from what I've seen) has been a buff to her Q. Just delete RFC. That item can't be healthy.

Sõna5 votes

Tristana

Pros:

  1. Q is powerful boost at Attack speed, which is the most important stat for ADC.
  2. W has long range, damage, can be reset through kills/assists or E.. escaping ability is the most important for ADC too, instead of fucked up when you jump in, but if you manage to trigger 4 hit E, then you can jump in/out depending? seriously?
  3. E can be used on Tower, the objective of the game, fast pushing skill, AOE , can be used to clear minion wave so fast with passive, 4 hits triggers maximum damage. It's such a dream skills for any champ especially ADC.
  4. R has damage, a pushback effect to whoever the frontline is except assassin..

Cons:

  1. Mana costs?.. I don't know
  2. That's all?

Concluding all the procs, making her super safe ADC. Imagine if she has a good support like Janna/Lulu/ or any other supportive champ. She's basically unkillable. There's no other ADC champ who can jump such a long distant + free reset if E fully triggered.

Meanwhile Caitlyn Lucian Vayne , how about giving their mobility skill some reset too since trist has reset, its unfair for trist have only reset right after killing. (Sarcastically) like caitlyn's E/Lucian's E/Vayne's Q to make some experiment what result it would be? Obviously it's going to be so cancerous that Tristana's W kill reset doesn't make sense until right now, How about remove Trist's W kill reset but keep her E reset to keep the game healthy? I meant it's LONG RANGE OF JUMPING.

Daddy Ants16 votes

{quoted}

Meanwhile Caitlyn Lucian Vayne , how about giving their mobility skill some reset too? like caitlyn's E/Lucian's E/Vayne's Q to make some experiment what result it would be? Obviously it's going to be so cancerous that Tristana's W kill reset doesn't make sense until right now, How about remove Trist's W kill reset but keep her E reset to keep the game healthy? I meant it's LONG RANGE OF JUMPING.

Please No resets on Vayne Q.

The complaints about her have finally died down.

Sõna2 votes

I am saying that in sarcastic way, Tristana's W is almost the same if above champion I mentioned have reset after kills.

GodlyBane4 votes

a better kindred that gets marks for leveling up :D

UpDownLeftRightAB3 votes

Why Tristana has so much range: Because she used to only be that powerful after 50 minutes, at a time when point and click CC was more prevalent (Old sion, etc.), now with games being... compressed, she scales in range faster and thus hits that late game spike WAY before she should. There are other champs who have this same kind of compressed scaling, see Vayne, Jinx, Etc. There are some for other lanes, but pretty much because Early game is almost non existent, Riot has removed the counter to late game champs. Also, I don't think they are going to do anything about it. Because more games = more money.

Leaf on Bush3 votes

It's her thing. She always had that as unqiue trait.

I'd rather suggest to nerf anything else if (and only if) tristana is really too strong. Nerfing or just removing a champions unqiue trait makes the game boring.

Ornn

RainXBlade7 votes

Being unique =/= healthy design

Ex. Zoe.

Leaf on Bush1 votes

If you are like all the other Zoe haters i gotta tell you that "1 shotting" or "too much damage" is not really a uinique aspect that we need to preserve.

Unique for example would be the effect of her E and if you think thats unhealthy because she can just teleport right next to you to throw it in your face there are still ways to improve it like slower projctile to give more reaction time etc. You don't just remove the whole drunken or sleep effect or whatever it's called.

Daedric Etwahl3 votes

Idunno, I find Zoe annoying in every way, but when I think of what's the one thing that makes her unique, I think it's her W. And the part I think doesn't really belong in League is the RNG minion drops. Granted they've removed Gunblade and now TP from the list, which is nice, but lane phase can be made or broken if Zoe gets a really good drop or consistently gets crap ones.

Thilmer1 votes

{quoted}

Being unique =/= healthy design

Ex. Zoe.

Not to mention that "being unique" is often used as a excused for "being overpowered as hell".

BlakexEkalb3 votes

Don't worry, she's getting her a range reduced by 25..... and a passive buff...... and a w buff......

why the buffs though?

(check PBE notes)

Grimspeake2 votes

Shouldve seen her season 4

Gamer Gallade5 votes

{quoted}

Shouldve seen her season 4

The cancer that was full ap Trist. Ugh don't remind me the horror.

A side from the healing reduction and being a shittier summoner 14

Overall, she was losing her place in the game.

Grimspeake1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gamer Gallade,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LhWnYEzA,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-02-24T08:22:46.039+0000)

The cancer that was full ap Trist. Ugh don't remind me the horror.

A side from the healing reduction and being a shittier summoner 14

Overall, she was losing her place in the game.

I mean cuz her range used to scale over 1k

ProfDrDeath4 votes

You're talking outta your ass...

Her maximum range from season 1 to now was 707, back when she got +9 range/lvl and had 550 base. 17 x 9 = 153, 153 + 550 = 703.

Now, that's still a lot of range, but far below 1k.

scribbles7822 votes

Never fear, she's getting nerfed! Riot doesn't know what they're gonna do with this mistake of a champion but here's what they have right now

Attack range lowered from 550 to 525 Draw a Bead (Passive) Attack range and cast range of Explosive Charge increased from [0/7/14/21/28/35/42/49/56/63/70/77/84/91/98/105/112/119] to [0/8/16/24/32/40/48/56/64/72/80/88/96/104/112/120/128/136] Rocket Jump (W) damage increased from 60/110/160/210/260 to 100/150/200/150/300

FlameHalbrdOkido2 votes

Agreed mate

You should check out this thread

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/lT3B52ki-in-my-opinion-for-marksmen-to-be-a-healthier-class-riot-should-flesh-out-their-gameplay-niche?comment=0043

Anyways Trist has 2 things going for her, LOTS of dmg in BPS and high AS

And LOTS of safety, but u already know what those sources are

Riot needs to pick: Is Trist gonna be a high dmg dealing Marksmen, or a super safe marksmen

In the past we thought marksmen were designed to deal dmg over time, it wasn't supposed to be bursty it was supposed to be consistent and if the markmen played well and u didn't deal with them they would evetually kill you This is a situation we no longer have the honor of working with with the current place of the game. But if Trist is gonna be super safe that what she needs to return to.

I'm all up for Super Safe Trist, or High Dmg Trist, just not both at the same time. So Riot needs to pick and make the necessary adjustments

Durzaka2 votes

Tristana isnt the third highest win rate ADC.

She is barely number 8 at an almost ideal 50% (50.05%). That puts her exactly middle of the pack for ADCs.

So that means there are SEVEN other ADCs that are clearly a bigger problem than she is, if you think win rate is important.

Speeedy2 votes

Tristana only came into power when zeal items got buffed, before that she was one of the worst adc in the game (like 14th best). I don't think the answer is to nerf tristana. Her kit hasn't really changed aside from a small nerf to her E i believe last season and now her ult CD. I think in order to bring her back in line you need to buff her counters of lane bullies since they are all garbage. Get the lane to hard shove force her under tower where she has a hard time farming and this allows you to not blind pick her.

As for cait she got hit hard last year (which was right to do, and yes I am a cait main) but the fact of her state right now is she fair. Shes ok at everything and excels at nothing. You can pick other champions who can do what she can currently do and other things on top of that. Her low HP in lane makes it hard to engage since if you get all-ined you pretty much are dead. Her trap duration is so short at low ranks that the damage is unreliable so people max Q to get some damage. Most cait mains either max Q or go 3 points into Q then max traps. Her E isn't a problem either its been in a good state. The real problem is her ult. Her ult right now is used more for poke damage than execution and with body blocking it with a tank makes it a wasted ability. She definitely needs some sort of buff to make her a bit of a lane bully again. As to what that buff is I am not sure without breaking her. I thought an ult rework of making it like 200/300/400 guarenteed to hit (not body blockable) and have it scale with AP instead of AD so it doesn't get stronger and is used as an execute of carries after a fight.

RainXBlade2 votes

I still don't understand why Riot gave her 2 other extremely strong safety features on top of her scaling range from her passive, being her W and R.

"Oh someone's gonna try to walk to you, just W away. Oh, that Zed just popped his ult on you? Time to mash that R button and if I can, mash W to jump away."

ADC's are already hard enough to reach or even touch them as it is. She needs some changes that ensures that she actually has to get in the danger zone to do something and not just stand 1000 meters away and have the ability to jump away from danger or push away people who would dare to jump on her.

Who is Taliyah2 votes

I don't think Tristana's range is the problem.

The biggest problem with Tristana is that she can avoid CC with her jump.

They removed ornns cc immunity and he is a tank. Why is an adc allowed to avoid CC when it's one of just a few things that can keep an adc at bay.

TandarenZ2 votes

And if we mention the fact that her kit requires almost none mechanical skill.. :-) It just adds up so nicely ha-ha.

Pika Fox1 votes

She gets extra range per level as it transitions her from being a burst playstyle to an auto attacking based playstyle. Her passive is the one thing that keeps her relevant as the game goes on. Her mid game is trash because she no longer has burst to deal good damage, is still leveling Q to get her auto steroid, and her range is still too meh to play super safe.

xelaker2 votes

that concept only works when the adc itemization wasn't so amazeballs though...

BeNiceToOthers1 votes

The only reason Tristana is being looked at as "OP" this season , or any other late game adc for that matter is the fact that they are supposed to have weak early games and have expensive item builds. However, Riot has nerfed a ton of mage supports as well as any adc bullies, which make her early pushing from passive e less punishable. That means she can get through early-mid game without any risk. I think riot should simply nerf late game ADC's as a whole instead of nerfing tristana alone.

Best Ekko NA1 votes

{quoted}

The only reason Tristana is being looked at as "OP" this season , or any other late game adc for that matter is the fact that they are supposed to have weak early games and have expensive item builds. However, Riot has nerfed a ton of mage supports as well as any adc bullies, which make her early pushing from passive e less punishable. That means she can get through early-mid game without any risk. I think riot should simply nerf late game ADC's as a whole instead of nerfing tristana alone.

Not that other ADC's deal any less damage, but I find that they can be dealt with in their own ways. Twitch / Caitlyn both have a lot of range, but they do not have the same amount of "safety" that Tristana does in team fights. Corki / Ezreal / maybe even Varus, have long poke range, but they deal a lot less damage as a price for staying long range. If any of them want to be useful for their team, they have to take the risk of getting into auto attack range, which makes them less safe. Vayne has stealth, but again is fairly short ranged. Jhin / Graves both have reloads on their auto attacks, and neither are really long ranged. Draven has his knock back and movement speed boost, but once again he doesn't really have a lot of range. Xayah only has one tool to escape and it's her ultimate.

There simply is not another ADC on Tristana's level. After level 16 she's the longest ranged ADC in the game with an escape tool, self peel ultimate, tons of wave clear, and massive damage to both towers, and champions. Tristana has all the strengths of every other ADC in the game, without any risk whatsoever. It doesn't have much of anything to do with her early game. Tristana's kit in itself is the problem. She's allowed to have access to literally everything that makes all the other ADC's strong, and doesn't have any downsides.

TopperH1 votes

And Twitch gets to shred your whole team at once. Jinx/Xayah also have strong AOE damage with the same attackspeed steroids. Meanwhile Tristana is purely single target and has to use her long cooldown steroid on the frontline.

I'm sorry but Tristana DPS isn't superior to other ADCs, she has no AOE, is purely single target, and when her Q isn't up her damage output is actually bad.

So yes she gets to have safety and agency.

Best Ekko NA1 votes

{quoted}

And Twitch gets to shred your whole team at once. Jinx/Xayah also have strong AOE damage with the same attackspeed steroids. Meanwhile Tristana is purely single target and has to use her long cooldown steroid on the frontline.

I'm sorry but Tristana DPS isn't superior to other ADCs, she has no AOE, is purely single target, and when her Q isn't up her damage output is actually bad.

So yes she gets to have safety and agency.

LOL what??? Okay for starters, her E splashes on kill, her bomb also blows up in a large area around towers, creeps, and champions. To say she has no AoE is just plain wrong.

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