Teemo Shrooms and Shaco boxes shouldn't grant vision in Dominion

Cloud273·Dec 24, 2015·3 votes·797 views

No one else gets free wards on this map. Why should Teemo and Shaco get them? Vision is extremely OP and I don't think anyone should have it for free.

25 Comments

Sneakyy XDDec 24, 20152 votes

{quoted}

free

Both champions are balanced around the design idea of those abilities granting sight. They lose power they would otherwise have in exchange for that vision.

Cloud273Dec 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Both champions are balanced around the design idea of those abilities granting sight. They lose power they would otherwise have in exchange for that vision.

In reality they haven't "lost power" at all. They both do an insane amount of damage. And they also CC you.

Sneakyy XDDec 24, 20152 votes

{quoted}

In reality they haven't "lost power" at all. They both do an insane amount of damage. And they also CC you.

Yeah they have, because if their stuff didn't grant any vision, they would deal more damage and/or CC for longer.

Cloud273Dec 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yeah they have, because if their stuff didn't grant any vision, they would deal more damage and/or CC for longer.

So much stupidity in this post. It's a f*cking AOE slow. How much more CC do you need?

DrCyanideDec 25, 20151 votes

Enough to compensate for the five minutes of vision you'd propose removing.

What's five minutes of vision worth in terms of CC? What's it worth in terms of damage? That's what you'd have to give Teemo.

It's worth pointing out that there champions maintain vision on these skills for Twisted Treeline and Howling Abyss. What makes the Crystal Scar so different that they shouldn't have vision there but maintain it on the other maps? If they should lose it on the other maps, what makes Summoner's Rift so different that they should keep providing vision?

MinardeDec 25, 20151 votes

Small correction in that, unless Riot did another stealth buff, Teemo's shrooms last 3 minutes for TT/CS.

VictoryDance96Dec 24, 20151 votes

Why not?

Cloud273Dec 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Why not?

Because no one gets free wards in dominion. Teemo shrooms and Shaco boxes grant vision of wherever they place them (until they're destroyed obviously), so they have something that no one else gets (for free). The damage isn't the problem (granted maybe it's a little strong for such a small map), but the vision is the real issue here.

VictoryDance96Dec 24, 20151 votes

In reality, they are not "free". They both cost mana and use an ability slot.

Makior72Dec 24, 20151 votes

You are talking about a game mode that is almost exclusively bots anyway.

MimyDec 24, 20151 votes

Ashe

EvilMerodachDec 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Kalista Nidalee Quinn RekSai Rengar Warwick Zyra also have a decent amount of 'vision control.' Though some is situational and some isn't 'free.'

To OP: It's a unique strength for a game mode. If Teemo or Shaco need map specific nerfs, I don't think it should be their traps that should get nerfed. Probably cd on Teemo's move quick and Shaco's Q..if they're even OP...

MimyDec 24, 20151 votes

teemo is hardly even playable on SR... so him being strong on dominion is sorta a balance.. maybe? idk

How is his move quick a problem? there's a lot more champions with more mobility than that...

and it's not like his shrooms give him a lot of vision.. and they're not very free, they have a bit of a timer before you can place one...

if you have trouble with shrooms/ jack in the boxes tell your team to get item 2047 and they'll be null and void as you basically deny him shrooms and kill them all and that takes a big chuck of his power out.

I think this item also might deactivate the sight the shrooms give... (Kind of like a sweeper to a ward... Idk, test this see if I'm wrong.. )

item 2047 250 gold.

Twisted Treeline #Crystal Scar Howling Abyss

Grants your champion True Sight icon** stealth detection for 5 minutes or until they die. **

EvilMerodachDec 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

How is his move quick a problem? there's a lot more champions with more mobility than that...

It's not a problem, it's more of just a fairly boring part of his kit. 'Hidden power' and whatnot. Trim the boring power, leave the unique things. This is even assuming he's OP and needs a nerf at all. Which I don't know, I don't play crystal scar. Just saying..nerfing his vision because he's one of the few people who have vision on the game mode, is...eh....like blending all the crayons till you get gray... Is it 'balanced?' Sure. Is it fun? No...

But when I think of Teemo I think of mushrooms and poison and annoying ~~laugh~~ blind. Not 'guy who can get from point A to point B slightly quicker than anyone else.'

MimyDec 24, 20151 votes

Hidden power? What? whats so hidden about the fact that his W is only a speed boost? xD (passive and active)

but who doesn't have 1 or two passives anymore on ALL THEIR SKILLS?

If teemo needed a nerf riot would nerf him, not be buffing him like they are..

MinardeDec 24, 20151 votes

Oracle's, nor any of the other vision items, have ever deactivated trap vision. They simply allow you to see nearby invisible enemy units.

Furthermore, Extract is a poor solution to true sight. The pace and flow of Dominion makes deaths common and expected. Rebuying Oracle's after every death is a large goldsink. That's why the vision items (Lightbringer, Sweeper, and Twin Shadows) were added. Unfortunately, the removal of Twin Shadows means there isn't an AP vision item anymore.

MimyDec 25, 20151 votes

hey shut him down early like most people do, get ahead, buy that, takes 30 seconds to get 1 mushroom..

250 isn't much on dominion... it has a higher gold income rate than SR..

and I don't know if riot would really care balancing around dominion as it has nothing to do with ranked and like 3% of the player base plays it... maybe less?

Idk I'm bronze,

#maybe I'm not capitalizing on teemo's vision as I should

but I don't really notice when people step on my shrooms alls I see is me getting a kill or an assist from them.. xD

don't get me wrong I have some map awareness, but the vision teemo's shrroms grant is soo tiny.. it's hard to catch sometimes... whereas I can catch an enemy with a ward.. Like the only time I get anything out of that vision is when I have them in the bushes at bot lane or jungle and I know no one is in there (Close to me).. xD

and that's on SR... I knew the price reduction wouldn't affect bronze much.. lol they still don't buy pinks..

Maybe decrease the shroom vision? to where 3 shrooms are needed for a full sight in the bush instead of 2...

MinardeDec 25, 20151 votes

Gold gain in Dominion is high enough that it's generally not possible to shut anyone down. 30s is also a massive amount of time to spend on anything, much less on clearing a single shroom. 250 gold by itself isn't much, but 250 gold every 2-3 minutes or so adds up quickly.

Well, even if you don't instantly notice someone stepping on your shrooms, you should notice whether your shroom is still there or not. That in itself provides some information about enemy locations.

Cloud273Dec 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

teemo is hardly even playable on SR... so him being strong on dominion is sorta a balance.. maybe? idk

How is his move quick a problem? there's a lot more champions with more mobility than that...

and it's not like his shrooms give him a lot of vision.. and they're not very free, they have a bit of a timer before you can place one...

if you have trouble with shrooms/ jack in the boxes tell your team to get and they'll be null and void as you basically deny him shrooms and kill them all and that takes a big chuck of his power out.

I think this item also might deactivate the sight the shrooms give... (Kind of like a sweeper to a ward... Idk, test this see if I'm wrong.. )

250 gold.

Twisted Treeline #Crystal Scar Howling Abyss

Grants your champion True Sight icon** stealth detection for 5 minutes or until they die. **

His 52% win rate begs to differ. Yea, he's definitely "unplayable" in his current state. Next time do some research before posting stupid sh*t. Teemo is still a VERY strong champ. They should've nerfed him harder like they did with Gragas. Then you'll know what it truly means to be "unplayable".

MimyDec 25, 20151 votes

Not very much top lane, mid and bot lane he's good..

and those lolking % probably don't mean much.. People can get carried..

and plus, it's not a 52%...

it's 50.03%

so you know.. as you said..

Next time do some research before posting stupid sh*t.

And learn how to play against teemo. it's not hard... any high elo will tell you that.

Cloud273Dec 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Not very much top lane, mid and bot lane he's good..

**and those lolking % probably don't mean much.. ** People can get carried..

** and plus, it's not a 52%... **

it's 50.03%

so you know.. as you said..

And learn how to play against teemo. it's not hard... any high elo will tell you that.

Actually it is 52% (53% if you round up). And who said I use lolking? My statistics come from champion.gg. So again, please do some research before posting stupid sh*t.

http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.winPercent&order=descend

MimyDec 25, 20151 votes

Who uses that?

Idk I dont need to listen to someones who doesnt know how to beat a teemo.

Not even that hard..

IcyPepperDec 25, 20151 votes

No one else gets free wards on this map.

Define "free," because I'm sure what you're complaining about are existing champion abilities.

What, you're telling me that all abilities are "free?" Pfft, might as well take away "free" lifebars and "free" movement speed while we're at it.

Cloud273Dec 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Define "free," because I'm sure what you're complaining about are existing champion abilities.

What, you're telling me that all abilities are "free?" Pfft, might as well take away "free" lifebars and "free" movement speed while we're at it.

Fine. If you want to argue semantics, I'll play your game. No one else gets wards on this map. I love how everyone always twists my words. Now stop being stupid and give me a reason why Teemo and Shaco should have something that no one else gets on this map.

IcyPepperDec 25, 20153 votes

Because Teemo and Shaco are the only ones who have mushrooms and those boxes, respectively.

It'd be like taking away dashes on a specific map, or taking away the ability to heal entirely.

It's one thing to nerf a mechanic, it's another to take it away entirely. Vision is a part of those champions' power budgets.