What Kind of Things Does Aatrox Need?

Legacy Hydralpha··6 votes·1,976 views

A lot of people have made posts like this, so I thought I'd follow suit. So, Aatrox, yeah. He's weird. He feels clunky, his stats are bad, and when he's good he can be toxic to fight. An unkillable drain tank that does a shit ton of damage, not fun is it? I'm not an Aatrox main, but I do like the champion, he's one of the few that fit my playstyle of bruiser/juggernaut style champions. I want to say what I like about Aatrox and what I think should change, we all have different opinions, so the other posts people make on Aatrox may not address my ideas. I really don't want Riot to fuck up Aatrox more, because sometimes they tend to make mains of certain champions lose interest in their main because of reworks, some Malzahar mains might get what I'm saying.

#Riot's Current Thoughts on Aatrox > * Shifting the passive to a windowed one (proc that grants AS/AD and revive if off CD for a duration, with some downtime). Goal is to offer periods of comparative strength and weakness (lot of the issues we've had with Aatrox's game health have been due to the nature of his revive passive)

  • Removal of % health costs, probably a flat health cost on E. One of Aatrox's big issues is that he's pretty feast or famine, stat checking people hard with a drain tank pattern or just dying. Giving him the flexibility to build defense more (health) without getting as punished by his kit for it gives some good fallback options/alternate builds.
  • Changing the W heal so it's not dependent on his AD, or as extremely different above/below 50% health. Ties in with the build path options above, with a % missing heal looking like a fairly likely mechanic.
  • More details and context next week.

#What I Like About Aatrox

  • Drain tank. Is that a toxic playstyle? Yes. Does he get countered by one item? item 3165 item 3123 item 3033 Three, actually. I play Aatrox to try and be this hard-to-kill blood god with tons of lifesteal.
  • Passive, I like the revive mechanic integrated into his kit, as well as the AS bonus. I'm OK with changes to it, but try to keep the core of the passive being the revive and AS.
  • Top and Jungle capabilities. Aatrox is decent enough top lane and jungle, but he's lackluster unless you know the champion completely. Aatrox is supposed to be a top laner, but hopefully his rework does address his jungle and keep it viable too.
  • E - Blades of Torment. It's actually a pretty solid ability that I like. Gives Aatrox a way to poke out, generate Blood Well, and slow people. Aatrox doesn't have much CC in his kit asides from his Q - Dark Flight, which is really clunky, more on it later. I hope E - Blades of Torment either stays unchanged or receives small number changes.

#What I Think Should Change About Aatrox

  • His base stats. I remember someone else saying that Aatrox's stats were too low to be a bruiser or a melee ADC. Aatrox's stats are pretty bad, less than 2000 base health at level 18 and some other poor stats, Aatrox is very item reliant and can't cover all his flaws at once. Buff some of his base stats or move around some power.
  • Q - Dark Flight feels really clunky. It takes forever to land, has a small hitbox, and it feels weird to get hit by some bullshit like Caitlyn traps during the flight. I suggest completely replacing the ability. Give Aatrox a mobility spell, but not this clunky BS. Perhaps a drilling attack where Aatrox flies forward, stops on the first champion/monster hit, and knocks them up while dealing physical damage? It'd be cool to see Aatrox drill through the air.
  • W - Blood Thrist/Blood Price needs changes, Riot is right. This, and a lot of other things in Aatrox's kit, is feast or famine. That's the kind of playstyle left for assassins or just anyone in this fucked-up meta because of how quickly games end. Perhaps have Blood Thirst scale off of health and Blood Price off AD?
  • Aatrox's ultimate, Massacre, is probably his most badass ability, from a thematic and gameplay standpoint. You become the embodiment of war, growing huge and devastating everything in sight. As cool as the ultimate is, it needs changes doesn't it? What if Massacre caused Aatrox's basic attacks to strike in a cone? (not like Titanic Hydra behind the target, but just a big sweep in front of Aatrox) Or Massacre can buff allies with bonus attack speed and health regen something something. Aatrox, by his lore, should be a GREAT teamfighter, since he just jumps into fights and urges his allies to bring forth blood to feed his blade.

Aatrox could be an awesome champion, and he has one of my favorite archetypes. A literal war demon that rushes into battle headfirst with his only goal being to spill blood. Keep that idea in mind and Aatrox could end up as a good champion, hopefully. I'm super excited for his changes, which may even be the size of a mini-update like Alistar or Shyvana. I love Aatrox, but I don't play him more because of the state he is in. He's fun, and amazingly powerful under the right conditions, but that doesn't mean there isn't problems. You know who else is fun and amazingly powerful under the right conditions? Yasuo, and we all know people hate him a lot. (Could we make him less annoying, don't even really need to nerf him, just make him less toxic.)

Here's to Aatrox and hoping Riot doesn't ruin their game more. Oh, and for all the shit I say, Riot isn't actually that bad. You can tell they're trying, they just aren't really doing the right thing yet, but it's getting there. Good luck to the players and Riot's balance team!

And since I love to include pictures at the end of my long posts: http://img08.deviantart.net/7244/i/2014/185/b/0/aatrox_by_alimika-d7p9jjo.png

20 Comments

Ralanr3 votes

Personally I think they should change his ult to not be a super mode.

Imo super modes aren't really fun to fight against or very interesting. They're just a stat boost for a limited time, leading your options to "do we have equal stats? No. Do I have lower stats? Yes. Ult."

Look, we all think super sayian was a cool thing and getting such a power up feels great, but all it amounts to is you hitting harder or moving faster. There's no real strategy or new gameplay in it. No way to really play around it either except to avoid fighting them in that state. But you enter that state to enhance your ability to fight in the first place.

I have the same feelings towards Vayne's ult. Yeah she gets invisibility, but she also gets a big stat boost and I feel like I'm not getting outplayed, but outstatted.

Legacy Hydralpha3 votes

Thematically, Aatrox's is pretty cool, and it feels satisfying to use for me. But as you said, it isn't too interesting or fun. And I know what you mean about getting outstatted by champions like Vayne, Nasus, and Renekton. Maybe if they kept it as an AoE sorta effect?

Ralanr1 votes

Potentially, though I still fear that it's not really solving the problem.

I honestly don't know what you could replace it with. Maybe a utility ult to enforce his thematic of inspiring bloodlust in others?

Legacy Hydralpha1 votes

I was going to say that, but isn't basically a super mode for the whole team?

Ralanr1 votes

Depends really. Taric's ult is kinda a supermode, but it has a bit of counterplay with that delay for example and it's only making allies invulnerable.

Though an offensive ability would be difficult to not make into a massive stat check.

Legacy Hydralpha1 votes

What if Aatrox's ultimate was a huge blood storm that scaled off how much blood he has stored, increasing the size and damage? Could have some additional effects, but that's all I can think of.

Ralanr1 votes

Hmm...could work.

midnight oil242 votes

I feel like they could do more with transforms. Like give them new moves. Like, say, when renekton ults he gains a new q or passive temporarily?

Asayake 5150glow2 votes

Honestly Renekton is clunkier than him.

He literally stuns himself during his E and his W. At least his Q is cancelable, but since you can't Q as you're W'ing or E'ing, still feels clunky af.

Then his ult's got this weird little animation too. Yeah so does Aatrox, but his is quicker, and looks nicer.

Also, I've never had a problem with Dark Flight except as an escape. As a diver, Aatrox shouldn't have a good escape, so that's fine. The problem is, he's so weak that there's almost no fights where you actually want to go in, meaning his Q is basically an escape, and one that's designed to be a bad escape.

I think Aatrox's E should be more impactful in teamfights. It's decent in lane, but maybe some sort of hitting multiple champions effect, like, a heavier slow or more damage after hitting a champion, should help him out. Or making it stronger at melee range to help his dueling and burst. Also, give it an auto attack reset and make it more cancelable (similar to Rengar or Riven Q).

W is definitely a problem. Squishy as Aatrox is as a Diver, he's got the stats of an assassin with the playstyle of a diver. In other words, his stats are shit, and W using health doesn't help. Maybe upon ulting or something, he gets to proc W every two hits? That's an idea for in combat, not sure what you'd do for his out of combat problems.

R should get some AD scaling, bonus AD, or onhit damage. Also damage reduction based on # of champions hit.

I think there should be two main ways to play Aatrox: An onhit draintank duelist, with a item 3153 item 3748 item 3065 build (with his healing more as a base stat/scaling on his own stats rather than lifesteal based, because lifesteal is too heavily countered by armor to be useful on someone with 0 penetration), or as an AD diver, with item 3074 item 3812 item 3071 to do some heavy burst, following up with dps, like a Nocturne but with more tankiness and CC.

Legacy Hydralpha1 votes

You make a lot of good points that I can agree with. Another person (Ralanr) said that ultimates like Aatrox's or Renekton's super saiyan mode isn't very interesting, so I don't think any changes should be made to it until it's potentially replaced. I agree with the separate playstyles, though.

midnight oil241 votes

I like those sorts of transforming ults tho ;-;

They could do more, to be fair. In my champ concepts I have a thing called judgement that gives a form change and changes some moves around, which they could use for ults. Like, what if Aatrox's w gained a blood well increase on the heal in his ult?

AHeroNamedHawke3 votes

{quoted}

Honestly Renekton is clunkier than him.

Are you playing with 300 ping?

Renekton hasn't stunned himself with his W longer than the target for some time, and you can cancel out of the W animation with Tiamat for a bonus hit

His Q doesn't even stop movement (unlike all of Aatrox's abilities) and his E has 0 startup

Are you saying that being unable to smash your keyboard and use every ability simultaneously makes a champion "clunky"?

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Charles Barklius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Lf4zGYYE,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2017-02-20T19:38:29.299+0000)

Are you playing with 300 ping?

Renekton hasn't stunned himself with his W longer than the target for some time, and you can cancel out of the W animation with Tiamat for a bonus hit

His Q doesn't even stop movement (unlike all of Aatrox's abilities) and his E has 0 startup

Are you saying that being unable to smash your keyboard and use every ability simultaneously makes a champion "clunky"?

Longer than the target means he still stuns himself.

I usually used the Tiamat+Q cancel or Tiamat W, didn't know you could cancel his W with Tiamat.

Let's just say I play Riven and am used to ulting during my E, doublecasting after E'ing (it's super similar on Renekton too, I always E+auto+WQ in and get frustrated when my Q doesn't go off), and being able to Q during my E. Also being able to cancel Q and W with move commands, which you can't really do with Ren W (it still takes a long time).

Ahristocats1 votes

more scaling like with crit force instance more utility less draintanking

Legacy Hydralpha1 votes

more scaling like with crit force instance

I don't think Aatrox should have crit as a reliant stat. It'd give him more item affinity like with item 3046 and item 3031, but that's more for Tryndamere than Aatrox.

more utility

I assume by utility you mean helping his team more. That would definitely help, but I think to really get that he'll need to be addressed in the Diver update.

less draintanking

By now, drain tanking is a core part of Aatrox. It's a bad mechanic, but for now it's what he does. As I said, Diver update could cause him to be a bit less of a drain tank.

Ahristocats1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Legacy Hydralpha,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Lf4zGYYE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-02-20T14:30:14.281+0000)

I don't think Aatrox should have crit as a reliant stat. It'd give him more item affinity like with item 3046 and item 3031,

so?

[{quoted}](name=Legacy Hydralpha,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Lf4zGYYE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-02-20T14:30:14.281+0000) but that's more for Tryndamere than Aatrox.

hahahha yeah, that's also more for yasuo, yi, gangplank! but not aatrox!

[{quoted}](name=Legacy Hydralpha,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Lf4zGYYE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-02-20T14:30:14.281+0000) I assume by utility you mean helping his team more. That would definitely help, but I think to really get that he'll need to be addressed in the Diver update.

his utility is garbage right now, and what more aatrox should be about "inspiring allies"

[{quoted}](name=Legacy Hydralpha,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Lf4zGYYE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-02-20T14:30:14.281+0000)

By now, drain tanking is a core part of Aatrox. It's a bad mechanic, but for now it's what he does. As I said, Diver update could cause him to be a bit less of a drain tank.

doesn't matter if it's core, just reduce it like they did with ww

Fawksea1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Sona x Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Lf4zGYYE,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-20T14:41:29.184+0000)

so? but that's more for Tryndamere than Aatrox.

hahahha yeah, that's also more for yasuo, yi, gangplank! but not aatrox!

his utility is garbage right now, and what more aatrox should be about "inspiring allies"

doesn't matter if it's core, just reduce it like they did with ww

how did they reduce it with warwick? if anything warwick has more drain tank now than before seeing as he almost builds full tank with no attack speed and still heals up 50% of his hp with one ulti

Ahristocats1 votes

they reduced it by making his passive healing only if below 50% hp

Big Lincoln1 votes

as a skirmisher aatrox needs a way to outplay opponents and have some way of sticking, too. atm he has the same problem as trynd; it's laughably easy to kite them around and make them worthless as opposed to fiora or yi

the correct choice would be to make him a juggernaut though desu

inplane1 votes

I feel like Aatrox needs some Taric love. By that, I mean adding more complicated mechanics in his kit. He's so straight forward that both the player and the opponent know what to expect from Aatrox. His Q can definitely have some kind of invincibility while in the air. Something like flying up on first cast and then targeting an area to land in on second cast. That alone gives unpredictability and outplay potential that can be seen from a mile away, possibly leading to healthier burst patterns.

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