Who else thinks that playing vs Illaoi is oppresive?

The Cane Master··12 votes·1,825 views

Starting from the Q width, to providing 30% armor pen to multiple people at once, to late game half HP burst if landed E on anyone + passive applied and essentially made 5v4 with one skillshot). The only real weakness she has no escape tools, meaning that she should be easy gank target. But wait, if you come and gank you'll get double killed, because she deals EVEN MORE dmg when outnumbered. If you somehow, by some godly miracle manage to kill her without dying, guess what, she'll still be able to outduel your top laner and deal more DPS. It's like playing vs Vayne with AOE dmg, the scaling is ridiculous and there is close to nothing you can do about it.

The only way I can see Illaoi bringing to the balanced state is for her to get Tentacle Smash width reduced, less dmg on E and maybe be affected by item 3110 (so that there is at least one item that you can itemize against her). I would also think to code Tentacle Smash to be considered an auto attack, so that you can maybe get item 3075 and let it retaliate damage a bit.

P.S. I understand the the whole concept of ''pick AP lane bully'', but Malzahar was the only one who could counter her and be a competitive pick and he's just gotten the nerf. https://www.champion.gg/champion/Illaoi (scroll down to ''champions that counter Illaoi'').

140 Comments

ItsOrval7 votes

Illaoi is so easy to play against, just dodge her abilities, go in. Or let her pull your spirit, and harass her.

Lugg4 votes

You have obviously never faced a good Illaoi. I bought her last week and i'm 12-1 on her so far. She's so incredibly broken it's sad.

ItsOrval5 votes

Well yeah, if you chose someone like ryze top, or someone incredibly squishy then thats going to happen. Thats why you dont do that lol.

Lugg4 votes

I have faced all the meta tops so far and it's literally been freelo. I had one game where I took 7 towers and all 3 inhibs by myself and there wasn't anything the enemy team could really do about it.

She is stupidly broken.

Astôlfo5 votes

Not really, the people you're playing against must have been idiots then.

Lugg3 votes

I think most people can't win with her because you have to hit skillshots. If you can hit them, she is basically unbeatable 90% of the time.

Astôlfo3 votes

Uh, the same logic applies in reverse. As good as a person can be with hitting skillshots, people can also be equally good at dodging them.

Lugg3 votes

The hitboxes on her abilities are pretty good, so it's not that hard to land them.

Astôlfo3 votes

And people also learn to dodge said skillshot hitboxes. It's not that hard to dodge Illaoi's skillshots.

LordGeovanni2 votes

its not that hard to dodge her q tentacles while taking free damage form Illaoi herself and losing out on farm or taking the tentacle shot healing her and taking a shit ton damage and maybe giving her more gold when you die

Astôlfo3 votes

Uh, it's not free damage if she lands a skillshot on you or you don't know how to dodge a skillshot/the tentacles targeting Vessels. If you dodge the skillshot in the first place, you wouldn't be taking that damage whether it's from the Q or E reflect.

LordGeovanni2 votes

the free damage is her spirit pull where you take damage no matter if you dodge the q or not and she can still keep up with you because you cant dodge auto attacks like her tentecles but you cant deal damage back to her when she has a tentecle slamming down or she will chunk you for 30% of your hp and heal up. dodge the E as if illaoi players dont hold it for point blank range or when some one is attacking cs because thats what i do

Astôlfo2 votes

Uh yeah no. If she got your Spirit, it meant she landed a narrow slow-ass skillshot that can't go through minions on you. That's your own fault. That's not even close to free damage.

And uh, you shouldn't be doing extended trades with her anyways. Or if you do, back off out of her AA range before she'd W you. If you dodge the Q and E and stay out of her W range, she's not going to be hitting you with tentacles.

Holding the E for pointblank range is stupid. And if someone is attacking CS, if they were half intelligent, they'd either do it behind their own minions, or just stop attacking and dodge first when she Es and then go back to CSing.

Astôlfo2 votes

Uh, or, don't be a stubborn idiot like you keep acting. Stand behind minions. Or, just dodge it altogether. It's incredibly easy to dodge. I can say this both as someone who plays and mains her (level 7 mastery) and someone who plays against her. She doesn't give me a hard time with dodging her skillshots at all. The problem is when the rest of my teammates don't know how to play against her at all usually.

Guyy Fieri2 votes

Lol. I was agreeing with a lot of what said until this. Her Vessel is actually not that hard of a skillshot to miss. It's hitbox is quite misleading and while yes it can be dodged its not like it's the easier thing in league to dodge.

Astôlfo6 votes

Uh, mostly because people are idiots and don't know how to play against her for the most part? So they play against her thinking she's just a typical melee top. Which is completely incorrect. That's not her problem, that's theirs.

ReZisT Lust5 votes

those exact people keep autoing her when she ults too lol*[slayer-pantheon-popcorn]*

LordGeovanni2 votes

a champion that forces you not to fight but doesnt allow you to get away its good design. move or die with 7 tentecles 2.25 teemos wide all around you

ReZisT Lust4 votes

7 tentacles means shes gotten her ult off 5 close proximity people plus a spirit and a passive tentacle its not that easy to keep a full team in your ult unless theyre brain dead and you have a thresh ult around all of you lol

LordGeovanni2 votes

you can get a 7 tentacle ult that has 3 passive tentecles 1 tentecle spirit and 3 actual enemy champions around

ReZisT Lust4 votes

im jjust basing it off when theres a 5man gank on illaoi whos pushing top

Astôlfo5 votes

tfw people are actually complaining about her I guess it's hard for people to step to the side

The Cane Master2 votes

Yeah, I can see that you are Illaoi main, no problem with your argument whatsover. As majority of people are bronze and silver (you among them http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=nep2une+), do you think they are able to do this https://youtu.be/cAi3602DsMA?t=5m53s That was Box Box with 1.5 million+ mastery with Riven. While you as a bronze IV player can do 1v5 pentakill without any major skill involved (you are maining Illaoi for a reason).

Astôlfo5 votes

Maybe I know more about Illaoi because I play her that much? And the fact that you're Plat 2 and still crying about Illaoi is hilarious.

TTK Dreadnought7 votes

I wish a 5v1 as illaoi was as easy as people say.

any smart team can win a 5v1 on illaoi. Its generally harder to 5v1 than it sounds.

Astôlfo5 votes

People love to cry instead of learning.

Caytheles3 votes

Dude,just think about it. You are bronze trash.... and if a plat is having trouble fighting your main. Then your main is basically freelo. Infact even i have trouble fighting illaoi. she is too opressive.

Astôlfo5 votes

And you're G5, you really can't be contributing either when you know nothing. And that's obviously why anyone who's actually intelligent knows how to beat her and does it fairly well, right?

Caytheles2 votes

Im not saying she is unbeatable. but it takes too many resources and skill while all Illaoi players do is Blindly smack what they can and have their passive do their work for them.

Its basically a No skill High reward kind of thing. and i may be gold 5, yeah so? Ranked is a joke this season. The fact that you are still bronze is just as laughable.

Astôlfo7 votes

Illaoi is low skillfloor. She's high skillcap. She's also very rarely played. Hence, most people not knowing how to play against her, which is really easy to do so. So, they play against her like they think any other typical melee toplaner matchup would be. Except it's not. And they do badly. Then they blame Illaoi instead of themselves.

Also, I started mid-December 2015 and haven't really cared or put effort into actually becoming better, which is why I don't really play Ranked at all. I mostly just play Normals for fun and just play whatever champion I want that fits the mood at the moment I'm picking instead of committing to a few and learning them that well. I can count the ones I've stuck really close to on one hand.

I'm saying using ranks is a sort of meaningless argument when you can't really be talking and the other person doesn't even care about ranks.

zlumpy6 votes

But without rank shaming we would have pure anrchy!!!!

Lulz jk right on man I agree with everything you said. Seems to me people just don't wanna bother learning new playstyles and champs outside their mains, and that makes them complain when their main gets beat by a specific champ.

Guyy Fieri1 votes

I don't know I just play Gnar and she can't even touch me

LordGeovanni2 votes

except your build path on her is incredibily bad

Astôlfo2 votes

Uh, except it's not. But okay bud.

LordGeovanni2 votes

thats why you lost every one of your recent games with her your first item should be hybrid hp and ad not deaths dance to help with survivability and ability to bully enemies out of lane. Black cleaver is most common frozen mallet is also good

Astôlfo2 votes

Please don't talk if you don't know jackshit. Death's Dance is core on her for splitpush build and in general. Black Cleaver is trash unless you're playing teamfight Illaoi because of the armor shred so your allies can do better. Except, Illaoi is an amazing splitpusher, soooo.... Frozen Mallet on her is terrible and not worth it at all.

LordGeovanni2 votes

I didnt call deaths dance bad i called it a bad first item. black cleavers passive is just a convenient op passive to have along with your health ad and cdr you get from black cleaver. that is why its core on illaoi no matter where you play her. frozen mallet makes it impossible for anyone with out a blink or dash to dodge your tentecle and unlike ibg you dont have to wait for a 2 second cooldown when useing it not to mention the second biggest hp item in game that she scale with because of her missing hp regain on tentecle slam and ad which illaoi scales over 120% with her tentecle passive.

Astôlfo2 votes

No, it's not even a bad first item. Again, please educate yourself before trying to speak on something you don't know anything about. Black Cleaver is better in teamfighting situations because your teammates will be able to take advantage of said armorshred. Illaoi's better as a splitpusher. Getting Cleaver on a splitpusher is pointless because you can shred all the armor you want, that's just going to be you. Death's Dance also gives CDR and massive AD as well as a ton of lifesteal.

Illaoi's not a tank. She's a lifesteal/sustain bruiser. She doesn't need just health for the reason of having health although it does work its way in (with things like Visage for better healing/Sterak's/etc). And Frozen Mallet only applies on autos, you don't need to spam autos. An ability + an auto or W and the spellblade proc from IBG is more than enough. Also, Frozen Mallet is just incredibly expensive and none of its sub-parts are worth owning in the early stages, unlike with IBG for example, where Sheen is good if it's an easy bully lane or the other part (forgot its name, the 1000 gold one) if you have to play safer.

See, with the heal, you'd want better heal. You don't need more health, because % missing health is always relative and you'd heal it back anyways. Yes, I know how Illaoi works, you don't need to tell me.

LordGeovanni2 votes

Illaoi doesnt need 1 shred of life steal because her tentacles passive fill the role of lifesteal doesnt mean you cant get it but to call her a life steal bruiser shows how little you know. She is a juggarnaut some one who is meant to fight and deal tons of damage but be able to take a good amount of damage too and that is why both she and darius have missing health regain when they hit their spell for it. tanks in the up to season 4 sense of the word dont build damage beyond sunfire cape or cinderhulk at all. illaoi is not a tank illoai is a juggernaut which is a subclass of fighter a which is a group of melee characters that fight prolonged battles and do damage over time rather than upfront burst or burst crit. tanks in the season 5-6 sense build one damage items not counting cinderhulk and build the rest defensive items or aura items.

Astôlfo1 votes

lmfao

Her tentacles do heal her. Not very much without any items to help unless the enemy team players are idiots and just let her hit them over and over for free.

Yes she is a juggernaut. I never said she's a tank. She shouldn't be building tank ever. She needs AD. She can take damage because she's inherently somewhat bulky and builds things like IBG/Sterak's/Visage. The main reason she can take damage is because she just heals it back with Warlord's/Dance/Visage.

You are literally arguing with me and telling me the same things I'm saying and then trying to say I'm wrong. But please, I'm sure you know soopooo much more than an Illaoi main about Illaoi.

LordGeovanni2 votes

im not argueing with you im telling you will kill yourself with deaths dance first she does build items that help her survive but they start out as hp and ad items to scale her passive with both damage and healing to make her a damage threat and tanky at the same time. deaths dance can do that but only after the full item is built before which your kit cant really protect you with out the health for you missing health regen to scale off of

Astôlfo1 votes

Uh, no. You're not even slightly correct. Second Doran's Blade on an early back, or preferably Vampiric Scepter on a later back is better. For an easy bully lane, I go Sheen, and for a more defensive lane, I go with the other part to IBG (the 1000 gold one).

Why do you keep trying to tell someone who knows far more than you about the very topic they're trying to educate you on? lmao

TTK Dreadnought1 votes

Second Doran's Blade

I prefer having the Corrupting Potion. I'm extremely good at managing her mana, but it allows me to sit in lane while the other player has to recall an extra time or two. Its also helpful because if i do end up expending mana (like due to being ganked earlier than normal) then i can regen enough mana for lvl 6 quickly.

I also run 3 scaling mana regen glyphs and 3 Spell vamp quints. so i can sit in lane for quite a while without recalling in addition to having some extra healing in a fight.

TTK Dreadnought1 votes

This is my usual build. of course i change it though as needed.

I also run 3 spell vamp Quints instead of AD quints to increase general sustain especially in lane where a Q can end up healing for 100 or so depending on the minion wave.

item 3071 item 3111 item 3025item 3053item 3812 item 3033

item 3143 item 3068 item 3065 item 3748 item 3142 are just a few situational items i use. In regards to item 3102 , i perfer to not build it, but will if really deemed necessary because of how easy it is to proc.

LordGeovanni2 votes

that if built in that order is a great illaoi build not so sure about mortal reminder but if you can survive sure

TTK Dreadnought1 votes

I buy mortal reminder because of the sustain that is often found in games. whether it be the opponent buying a item 3812 item 3074 item 3072 item 3146 or champions with sustain like Darius Gangplank DrMundo VolibearVladimir Swain XinZhao .

The bonus armor pen is perfectly fine because usually there's at least 1 tank on the team. but its really about the Grievous wounds. Illaoi does damage in a large area and applying grievous wounds on the entire enemy team will destroy their ADCs bloodthirster and such.

Especially when most ADCs buy the item 3036 and there may only be a single summoner 14 on the team. I consider item 3165 annoying but not the best at applying grievous wounds.

So if me having executioner/mortal reminder turns a possibly one sided 5v5 even more to our side. then i'll take it.

If only the ADC has sustain, then i'll skip it though.

BladeSteel4 votes

So then go main illaoi and carry? If she's so broken go play her lol.

The Cane Master2 votes

The post is about balance, that is for Riot to stop the abuse of something overpowered as much as Illaoi by providing a counterplay, either by another competitive pick, itemization or something else. Currently none of that is available against Illaoi .

Astôlfo4 votes

It would help if you'd use a brain before you made a thread like this.

Guyy Fieri1 votes

Your point does have some validity but at the same time, we all know that the hitbox (even after getting fixed a little bit) is a little bit suspect.

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