Riot you need to take one of the classes out of the itemization

deadlychuck·Nov 25, 2018·1 votes·723 views

You can't have Assassins, Marksmen, and Juggernauts all using the same offensive stat.

If they're using the same itemization, then that allows each of them to dip into the other's and they're supposed to act as one of the circular balance structures in the game.

When everyone is using the same kind of weapons and constantly trying to out pace each other, it's called an arms race. No wonder AP feels so much worse, they don't have this feedback loop of constantly benefiting from when their counter gets a buff.

5 Comments

MagicFlyingLlamaNov 25, 20183 votes

They dont.

Assassins generally rely on flat AD and lethality/penetration.

Marksmen go speed/crit.

Juggernauts typically flat AD or on-hit.

The few outlying items generally get adjusted to not overlap into the wrong classes.

deadlychuckNov 25, 20181 votes

This is just not true.

Assassins generally rely on flat AD and lethality/penetration.

Marksmen go speed/crit and flat AD.

Juggernauts typically flat AD or on-hit.

Yes multiplicative scaling, for marksmen in particular, tends to come from secondary stats, but many of the benefits of the unique passives are worth far more than the loss of value from the cost of the secondary stats. With most items providing other forms of damage that they still benefit from. The only exception to this that I can think of are the item 3086 items which ONLY provide secondary stats. And a full attack speed/crit marksmen is useless, you still need to build flat AD on them.

But let's lay it out this way, when item 3071 item 3147 or item 3031 are strong, all of these classes can justify picking them up. When one of those are weak however, one of the classes feels a substantial hit to their ability to effectively fill their role, while the other classes still have their tailored items to fall back on, even if they're not able to use one of the powerful items designed for a different class.

Then you have other items which are just made for all of them and none of them, item 3812 provides the flat AD for everyone. CDR for the juggernauts and assassins. Lifesteal & spell vamp for the marksmen and juggernauts. Burst dampening for the assassins and marksmen. That's not to say that DD is OP, only to use it to demonstrate that in fact ALL of these classes absolutely can use the same itemization. As I said in my OP, they have no business to be doing so when they're also intended to act as counters to each other.

MagicFlyingLlamaNov 25, 20181 votes

item 3812 is one of those troublesome outlying items that needs a rework or removal. It also invalidates item 3072 .

I could see it changed to not have the lifesteal, but increase the damage buffer a bit. Make it a pure duelist item and require them to get sustain from other sources to survive.

deadlychuckNov 25, 20181 votes

Yes, but that has nothing to do with what I brought the item up to demonstrate.

It provides flat AD makes it a viable item across all 3 classes, even if not optimal. The fact that this can even happen, let alone so easily, demonstrates a serious flaw in the game design.

TehNACHONov 25, 20181 votes

MagicFlyingLlama's more or less got it, save for forgetting Juggernaut's all too important HP scaling.

Part of the problem you note however is not so much the fact that these champions can share items, it's that they're often forced to share items. For the longest time for example, Assassins straight up didn't have any real items for themselves. They stole crit and armor pen items from ADCs and Bruisers. Even now though, they have a total of 3 Lethality items. You can't even make a dedicated full build for them really. This is also the problem with Bruisers->Juggernauts and their sometimes abusive sometimes worthless relationship with Tank items. At the very least though Juggernauts nowadays do have enough items to make a full build with.

It's incredibly controversial to mention anything that sounds like "We need more Lethality items in the game", but the reality is with the problems you've pointed out, that's one very obvious and perhaps very necessary conclusion to take.