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I don't care how well you end up doing or how good your stats are...

DunkinNoobs··3 votes·984 views

If you pick some dumb shit that doesn't fit the team comp, and we end up losing, it's your fault. If we desperately need front line control out of top lane but pick GP instead, it's your fault if we end up losing even if you play really well. Having a reasonable win condition is exceedingly important and by picking champs that don't fill the teams needs, you often guarantee that your team has no win condition other than "snowball so hard that comp doesn't matter". Let me tell you, that is not a reliable win condition. No matter how good you are at your champion, betting the match on your entire team snowballing out of control is an incredibly stupid move to make.

This doesn't just apply to top laners not picking tanks; it can also apply to mid laners not picking champs with adequate range and CC, junglers not picking champs with adequate early pressure potential, adcs not picking champs with adequate dps potential or adequate mobility, and supports picking champs that go against the rest of the teams flow. Picking Zed when your team needs AOE magic damage and CC will probably fuck you. Picking Warwick when the enemy Elise has multiple high kill pressure lanes to gank will probably fuck you. Picking Ezreal or Lucian when the enemy team has 3 tanks will probably fuck you. Picking Soraka when the rest of your team is playing high pressure playmaker champs will probably fuck you.

24 Comments

k wìx7 votes

Disagree.

1.) The pick order is very important, If i first pick, and your last pick, I get the advantage of picking whatever I want to play, while you have to react, and pick based on the 'comp' of the team? it's pretty unfair. Players who pick last should be given leniency in regards to comp.

2.) Many players are only good with 3 or 4 champions and sometimes they dont have a 'frontline' pick or a good 'cc' pick.. This isn't their fault, its just the nature of putting 5 random strangers in a game and hoping for the best. You can't blame someone in that way - its not just or fair.

3.) Use your judgement and leave the game if you think its going to go south because of champion picks. That's a personal judgement call you have to make. It's probably the best solution for this problem.

I would say that pick comp is important - and you should consider it, but if you take a champion in a role, do decently well, have good stats, and you lose? its definitely not your fault because you didn't "pick a tank." That's bullshit.

Chamuel854 votes

I entirely agree with this. Also, it's a game. Play what you want to play. I'm a support main, and I don't accept "You need to pick Braum cuz we need a tank." No, go away. I'm going to play the champion that I want to play if that's what I want to do. If we so desparately needed X, you should have picked it if you think it's so necessary.

Erockandroll1 votes

[{quoted}](name=k wìx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Lb2ssWrj,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-01-10T15:34:16.838+0000)

Disagree.

1.) The pick order is very important, If i first pick, and your last pick, I get the advantage of picking whatever I want to play, while you have to react, and pick based on the 'comp' of the team? it's pretty unfair. Players who pick last should be given leniency in regards to comp.

2.) Many players are only good with 3 or 4 champions and sometimes they dont have a 'frontline' pick or a good 'cc' pick.. This isn't their fault, its just the nature of putting 5 random strangers in a game and hoping for the best. You can't blame someone in that way - its not just or fair.

3.) Use your judgement and leave the game if you think its going to go south because of champion picks. That's a personal judgement call you have to make. It's probably the best solution for this problem.

I would say that pick comp is important - and you should consider it, but if you take a champion in a role, do decently well, have good stats, and you lose? its definitely not your fault because you didn't pick a tank. That's bullshit.

Honestly, if you want to form a comp, you pretty much need to start before the first picks come out. (i.e. discuss it during the ban phase) And with pick intent, no one should really be blindsided by someones champion pool. (If you wait until last pick to find out your teammate isn't comfortable with tanks, the whole team done goofed)

It's also shows a lack of trust in the last pick. Though not everyone can fill ones expectations, their are many who can still contribute to the team comp. (e.x. I'm not to keen on tank supports, But I can easily play an enchanters with enough shields to be tanky, and provide poke/peel)

k wìx1 votes

Then I think your argument should be a bit more about opening up communication during the starting moments because:

1.) NO one says a word during champion select unless they want a role - not even in gold/plat level ranked.

2.) The vast majority of players do not even show PICK intent because they fear it will be banned by their own team? Or maybe they are just clueless as to the feature? idonno.

It would be cool if the game could warn you about being low on a given role like 'you dont have any tanks' or ' you lack cc ' .. I think HOTS does this.

Erockandroll1 votes

[{quoted}](name=k wìx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Lb2ssWrj,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2017-01-10T15:56:42.116+0000)

It would be cool if the game could warn you about being low on a given role like 'you dont have any tanks' or ' you lack cc ' .. I think HOTS does this.

Don't know about HOTS, but I think mechanics like that wouldn't work too well, due to how much the meta shifts, and Riot doesn't particularly want to enforce or encourage a particular meta. The necessity of a tank, or the amount of CC you need for a comp, is completely relative to what that comp is trying to accomplish. (A Liss/Kennen can easily provide Team engage due to their kits, and not need to be tanky.)

But that's another reason why we need more communication, if everyone has different opinions on what the comp should look like, your actual composition is going to look like a mess. Also cause I don't think everyone has the same definition of Tank. Sometimes they actually mean a Vanguard with legitimate team engage, other times, they just want someone who doesn't die in 2 seconds.

k wìx1 votes

I just consider this part of the "magic of solo queue." Or ranked in general - its fun to see who's shitty comp will win them the day.

vOmvbrawfU1 votes

My favorite is when top and jg both pick squishy "carry" champs and then demand the support play a tank.

Randomonium4 votes

This implies that everyone has a champion pool large enough that they can fit whatever role their team needs them to fill. I think that's an unrealistic expectation. If your top laner isn't comfortable playing tanks then why force him to play one? I can't tell you how many times someone has picked a champion because "it synergized well" only to get complete dominated in lane. Nevermind the whole auto fill issue. If one of my teammates gets auto filled I want them playing their best champion in that role because they're already at a huge disadvantage playing a role they don't play that often.

I do agree with your over arching concepts that people need to communicate more in champion select and need to be more flexible in their picks. There's no reason not to pick a champ that synergized well with your team if you know how to play them. That said, it's unrealistic to expect every person to have at least 1 champion of every class or subclass that they can play in ranked.

Big Lincoln2 votes

nah its Darius every game bubbi

gold 4 for life son I'm never climbing again

Elohaven2 votes

No - it's your fault since for not carrying.

"If you want something done, do it yourself."

DunkinNoobs1 votes

GL carrying when you have no frontline against Fizz, Jax, and Kha'zix.

Elohaven1 votes

Kha'zix is easy for me to face actually.

I destroy those 3 with Teemo....

..And Teemo is really weak this meta.

Meep Man2 votes

So, say, in your opinion, if we "need" some Physical Damage in Top Lane and I pick Singed and then go 10/1/5 and get 312 CS while getting my lane all the way to the enemy inhibitor, we lose because of me?

DunkinNoobs1 votes

{quoted}

So, say, in your opinion, if we "need" some Physical Damage in Top Lane and I pick Singed and then go 10/1/5 and get 312 CS while getting my lane all the way to the enemy inhibitor, we lose because of me?

If we end up losing because the enemy team just stacks 200 MR a piece, yes, we lost because of you.

SchmidttyGames1 votes

In this case specifically, the loss would fall on your ADC. If they all built MR to counter Singed, your carry should be having a field day.

This is a 5 person game. There are no over-reaching reasons why someone caused your team to fail. You all failed together.

Alex h87211 votes

[{quoted}](name=RAMP Schmidtty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Lb2ssWrj,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2017-01-10T16:47:03.867+0000)

In this case specifically, the loss would fall on your ADC. If they all built MR to counter Singed, your carry should be having a field day.

This is a 5 person game. There are no over-reaching reasons why someone caused your team to fail. You all failed together.

But bot lane insta-locked Ziggs apc so clearly its the toplane singed's fault /s. LOL

Wolf Queen2 votes

You do realize this is solo queue? Comps dont matter till high plat+ and even then its iffy. Many people are 1 trick pony, even challengers. You think they give a crap about comps?

DunkinNoobs1 votes

{quoted}

You do realize this is solo queue? Comps dont matter till high plat+ and even then its iffy. Many people are 1 trick pony, even challengers. You think they give a crap about comps?

People in high elo pick around their 1 tricks; they don't just pick and then try to force the 1 trick to change. If they get a 1 trick Singed on their team, they pick around having a Singed splitpush.

xBushx1 votes

ONLY if he was last pick. IF I first pick I am picking whoever the FUCK I want....Team should build around you. Last three already got to ban out champs they dont wat to play. Least I can do is play one I WANT to play. So IF I am first pick....build around me and if this is remotely close to what happened you cannot blame someone for their pick EVER.

EVERY Team CAN beat EVERY TEAM.

That's strats next level.

DunkinNoobs1 votes

{quoted}

ONLY if he was last pick.

That's implied. Can't know what your team needs if they haven't picked champs yet.

xBushx1 votes

Making sure...because last pick SHOULD pick to suit the team. UNLESS it is a complete lost cause (Team is way top squishy to protect anyways) at which point play a split pusher lol

Limmie1 votes

I'd rather a teammates to pick something that they're solid at and know how to play than to pick something they have no ideal how to just to fit the teamcomp. It's also on everyone's shoulders to realize the team's weakness and play around that. If you have to frontline and you're still grouping up for the midgame aram instead of spreading and force picks, it's on you.

DunkinNoobs1 votes

Looks like a bunch of people enjoy losing games because of stupid picks. Enjoy your -20 LP retards.

Bronze Bonanza1 votes

{quoted}

If you pick some dumb shit that doesn't fit the team comp, and we end up losing, it's your fault.

Is that supposed to stop me?

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