Now I don't disagree with Xerath being nerfed so don't misunderstand me.... but MF hasn't been touched in MONTHS and has a far higher winrate than Xerath with almost 3x his pickrate to top it off.
Oh and Riot is actually indirectly buffing her by making black cleaver even stronger...
RiotRiot MapleNectar49 votesWe're testing some direct changes to MF right now, we'll be shipping something on 7.24b. She'll also be getting knocked down a few begs from changes to sorcery that are going out with the patch as well.
Rebonack8 votes[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=At8kEzEa,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-12-08T01:09:54.840+0000)
We're testing some direct changes to MF right now, we'll be shipping something on 7.24b. She'll also be getting knocked down a few begs from changes to sorcery that are going out with the patch as well.
I've noticed since the pre-season changes that except for a few pretty major outliers (MF and Ez, mostly) no Marksmen are particularly standing out right now.
Do you suppose this has something to do with how stompy early game has gotten due to lower resistance/HP? If mistakes are punished MUCH harder, it seems to me that the state of bot lane would tend to lean 'who makes the first slip-up' rather than what champ you're playing, since everyone explodes equally fast now.
RiotRiot MapleNectar6 votesPersonal belief is that the early game domination of sorcery (primarily comet) and lethality, are a bit overtuned, allowing utility marksman like MF/Jhin/Varus to crowd out other marksman that need to scale up with gold. We're looking at some changes which should start making that less true, and as such I'd expect we start to see a re-emergence of some more variety of bot laners, but we shall see!
TBH not sure why you're getting downvoted, it's a reasonable question :/
AetherArising2 votes[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=At8kEzEa,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2017-12-08T17:14:04.646+0000)
Personal belief is that the early game domination of sorcery (primarily comet) and lethality, are a bit overtuned, allowing utility marksman like MF/Jhin/Varus to crowd out other marksman that need to scale up with gold. We're looking at some changes which should start making that less true, and as such I'd expect we start to see a re-emergence of some more variety of bot laners, but we shall see!
TBH not sure why you're getting downvoted, it's a reasonable question :/
If you want to bring MF, jhin, and varus back down to size, then here's a suggestion
Majorly reduce the lethality bonuses on RANGED attacks and champs. It's daggers for assassins, and the assassin class was meant to rush them. Giving ADCs an item conducive to large burst in short periods of time, and ADCs are a class meant for whittling down the front line from afar, it kinda seems wonky that at 2900 gold you finish your lethality item which lets you shitstomp everyone in lane with a couple Qs and autos
Daddy Ants3 votesIf you want to bring MF, jhin, and varus back down to size, then here's a suggestion
Majorly reduce the lethality bonuses on RANGED attacks and champs. It's daggers for assassins, and the assassin class was meant to rush them. Giving ADCs an item conducive to large burst in short periods of time, and ADCs are a class meant for whittling down the front line from afar, it kinda seems wonky that at 2900 gold you finish your lethality item which lets you shitstomp everyone in lane with a couple Qs and autos
Letahlity needs hitting as a whole.
AD champs and Assassins are doing WAY too much damage with just a 
and anyone else who can abuse Skillblade of Draktharr.
please dont nerf mf before twich.
http://www.op.gg/champion/twitch/statistics/adc
2 patches ago he had a 54% win rate now he's at 49.7%
His ban rate 2 patches ago was well over 60% it's now below 3%
Chembaron Yamada2 votesAs awkward as it sounds, the sorcery tree with comet is the only keystone variant Camille has any kind of success with.
She is in a really awkward spot when it comes to keystone choices.... Seeing that sorcery and comet get nerfs, she will probably suffer alot and it doesn't change that she has no synergy with any keystone choice.
I know there are plans to provide more runes in the future, I hope it will address this problem, but it will probably take a long long time....
Leu071 votessince when MF is an utility marksman? her only utility is her E (and lets be honest varus e works better and deals more damage)....and thats the only reason she is being abused with comet/aery.
for me utility marksman have more ways to deal cc...like ashe/varus/jhin.
Douglas Funnie40 votesTWITCH
Sp33d Zer022 votesHas a negative win rate right now because he is bad vs lane bullies and in shorter games.
MangelinaJolie7 votesImplying that winrate has anything to do with game health or design? He is a problem and HAS been a problem.
Velzard of Koz7 votesI don't feel like his winrate unrelated problems can be resolved by simple change of numbers, though.
The Space Cowboy4 votesVayne is the same way. Low win rate but still unhealthy .
Rinký Dinky4 votesMaking his stealth not bullshit would be an excellent start.
He has a lower detection range than and 
. Two MELEE who can only burst ONE person, while he can "DPS" an entire team in 3 seconds.
The fuck????
cPXt3JHpf411 votestwitch sitting at like a 50% there more problems bigger than twitch
General Esdeath 1 votesBecause he's a late game one shot champ, games don't last that long.
EROTIC RAID BOSS4 votesThey're not so much shorter but I think the bursty damage meta doesn't favor him as much
General Esdeath 2 votesOh no I'm not denying he can burst you, but he used to be much stronger when games lasted longer. a 6 item Twitch would actually kill you in less than a second. You couldn't react to it.
EROTIC RAID BOSS3 votesActually I meant it's easier to murder him the second he comes out of stealth and he's more easily bullied in the lane phase now that poke/engage is in and healbots are out. That's probably why he's worse, not game length
Raxistaicho5 votes[deleted]
Death by Glamour7 votesLets not forget about anivia
Raxistaicho6 votesI wish I could forget about her, but Anivia at least takes some skill and has to wait until level 6 to get her easy waveclear spell. Malzahar has access to his at level 1 :(
yay nibbers3 votesWhat are you talking about? Malz needs two spells minimum to wave clear effectively and you can stop his push easily by killing his voidlings with a single aoe.
Poop Jelly13 votesMalz just get nerfed??
Succubús GF12 votesMalzahar just got nerfed...
T4underbolt6 votesFine but why xerath nerf. He was useless for like 3 whole seasons. Now even with comet and best possible runes he is outshined by any champion in the midlane. His skillshots literally the easiest to dodge in the game. Eithout this damage his q will be useless both in early and late. Why cant you just fix runes that you think are the problem? Ezreal was dumbster tier with 47% winrate as adc for a long time and when klepto makes him too strong you nerf ezreal instead of unhealthy synergy with klepto and rune itself. He is only good because he gets item faster before crit adcs but once enemy adc gets ie and zeal item it gets harder for him. There are so many champions needing a nerf and you choose those that either are too strong thanks to runes or not strong at all like xerath.
ForgottenLuck4 votesI mean I would rather just nerf lethality, or add more arm, since personally, and I get that I don't have all the numbers, but I feel like she ain't really broken just the lack of armor is the problem.
Mordepool3 votes"Direct changes" doesn't say nerfs. But she's getting nerfed since we are nerfing Mages Keystone. Does anyone else smell anything over the Bullshit. Clear & direct language. Please and thank you
Right now I can't tell if you're giving her a buff
RiotRiot MapleNectar8 votesDirect nerfs to her, and direct nerfs to sorcery.
SweedishGunner4 votesIf you're nerfing Sorcery than can you please look at Viktor? He's been 45-48% winrate the entire season, he could use just a tiny something, maybe a 10% AP ratio buff for like 1 part of his spells.
cocacolalips6 votesare the changes to Miss Fortune power nerfs or power neutral? are they targeting adc MF or support MF?
ADC MF is only strong because sorcery is strong...
and MF support is only played because she has lane priority when coupled with Jhin or Ashe and pros value the first turret a lot. She isn't even good in pro play past the first turret cheese, she falls off harder than a rock.
Imo, what you need to do is target her support position with power neutral changes, her E is fairly obnoxious at level 1-6, but that's the extent of it. Gotta find a way to make that E spell less obnoxious without taking too much power away from it, maybe by pushing back the damage it does over time to the last tick only, so it's not as effective when used solely to poke unless the target is also rooted or stunned. Say, instead of slowing the target and dealing damage every 0.25 seconds for 2 seconds, it slows the target every 0.25 second for 2 seconds and only then deals damage after 2 seconds. Or something like that.
EDIT: also something that might be worth looking into, arcane comet and MF E make it rain have a wonky interaction and her E will trigger arcane comet cooldown reduction effect multiple times I believe to as much as 40% cdr if it hits one player, up to 100% if it hits more than 2 players (it's 10% per enemy hit every 0.5 second, it can easily reach 100% if her E hits more than two players), which is probably not intended.
MuffledGarbage3 votesSo I gotta ask, do you know of any plans to make Akali less oppressive toplane?
She takes large dumps on a lot of toplaners while also outscaling the non-tanks.
Akali's roams aren't a problem for the most part because it's easy to notice when she left lane because of how much damage she does.
Akali's sustain makes her near-unkillable in the laning phase when it's 1v1 and a toplaner VS Akali is being played.
Akali has easy escapes and a lack of way for most Melee champs to retaliate her damage when she uses W(sure it's on a 20-ish second cooldown earlygame, but Akali still has the passive damage + sustain that makes this overpowered).
I'd seriously like to stop being useless for the first 20 minutes from enemies playing Akali top and being almost as oppressive as a Pantheon.
DarkSoul19945 votesSo you're double-tapping her in one patch? Have you guys not learned? You can't nerf the champion and nerf the item/rune that was making them strong in the same patch.
taleofsonata3 votes[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=At8kEzEa,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-12-08T01:09:54.840+0000)
We're testing some direct changes to MF right now, we'll be shipping something on 7.24b. She'll also be getting knocked down a few begs from changes to sorcery that are going out with the patch as well.
0 Explaination on Xerath Nerf? Just like any other mages nerf recently.
Zekutsu1 votes[{quoted}](name=Maple Nectar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=At8kEzEa,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-12-08T01:09:54.840+0000)
We're testing some direct changes to MF right now, we'll be shipping something on 7.24b. She'll also be getting knocked down a few begs from changes to sorcery that are going out with the patch as well.
It would be cool if you change her E into a dash (so no more braindead E spam) and make the ult do the same damage but in less time (to make up for the slow loss).
IceJeleb1 votesHello. As a support MF player, can you comment on whether or not the changes are going to break supportune again? Every time AD MF gets strong it feels like she gets nerfs intended to pull back her power as a marksman, but they inordinately hit the support kit, so that you have a minor nerf to her AD when it is too strong, and a major champion-breaking nerf to her support kit which was never that good to begin with.
Stars Shaper25 votesBecause Xerath isn't in the magic list of favored Riot champions.
k wìx14 votesHitting Xeraths late-game Q damage is pretty bold - I think he'll just get straight up replaced by Ziggs and Velkoz, who have been sleeping in the shadows, better than most players realize. Unfortunate.
Excited to see MF finally get a nerf or two, her lucking into a lane-winning bounce-shot feels super cheesy. Nevermind her E, which also probably needs something. ** I'm really surprised you didn't nerf the mana rune synergy with Xeraths passive. He can just let the Q charge and gain 1/4th of his mana bar. **
Poske2 votes[{quoted}](name=k wìx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=At8kEzEa,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-12-08T01:14:28.483+0000)
Hitting Xeraths late-game Q damage is pretty bold - I think he'll just get straight up replaced by Ziggs and Velkoz, who have been sleeping in the shadows, better than most players realize. Unfortunate.
Actually ziggs is uber trash and has been every since they gutted his q hitbox and created baron minions
If ziggs werent extremly far from viability in mid lane i would play him
SweedishGunner6 votesYeah no. He was around 54% winrate earlier in the season and was even played bot for his tower killing potential.
He's far from 'trash'.
Poske1 votesYeah no. He was around 54% winrate earlier in the season and was even played bot for his tower killing potential.
He's far from 'trash'.
yes he was trash tier every patch except the one patch (or was it 2..) where botlane tower was giving 15k gold
And it wasnt because he would bully hsi enemies. It was because if his midlaner/Jungler ganked he would get tower
Other then that trash since the hitbox gutting. And midlane ziggs wasnt viable since season 4 or whenever it is when i stopped playing him
HalcyonDweller1 votesMidlane Ziggs is viable. I've played it myself and done alright with it.
Poske1 votes[deleted]
HalcyonDweller1 votesI've played a massive number of games over the years and I put a lot of time into learning techniques I've seen high ranked players use. I have enough experience to know what I'm talking about.
And I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't be a prick by making ad-hominem claims to discredit me instead of arguing on-topic.
vgamedude12 votesBecause nothing besides ADC can have nice things.
DarthFantasia12 votesI don't really think Xerath needs a nerf, and Black Cleaver needed everything except a buff. I agree though. It always seems like Riot refuses to nerf the champions with the highest win rates. Twitch had an insane win rate for a few months and Riot did nothing to balance him. The same thing happened to Janna before they gave her a mini rework. She was the top support for what felt like forever.
TitanAnteus3 votesI don't really think Xerath needs a nerf, and Black Cleaver needed everything except a buff. I agree though. It always seems like Riot refuses to nerf the champions with the highest win rates. Twitch had an insane win rate for a few months and Riot did nothing to balance him. The same thing happened to Janna before they gave her a mini rework. She was the top support for what felt like forever.
I don't think you play top lane, because the reason Black Cleaver is getting buffed is because top lane is becoming super boring to play right now. Too few champions go up there right now.
AP Amumu Main1 votesI don't really think Xerath needs a nerf, and Black Cleaver needed everything except a buff. I agree though. It always seems like Riot refuses to nerf the champions with the highest win rates. Twitch had an insane win rate for a few months and Riot did nothing to balance him. The same thing happened to Janna before they gave her a mini rework. She was the top support for what felt like forever.
Xerath is S god tier ultra instinct bro.
DarthFantasia2 votesSo that is why he only has a 52% win rate (which is 11th among midlaners).
DontTouchMyBall6 votesHello??? The answer is simple!
Miss Fortune is an ADC! And... ADCs don't get nerfs! Boom blew your mind way haven't I?
CasterGilgamesh5 votes
