I do love the Brand and Swain nerfs, but you have to remember Riot

They won't revert the nerfs. This is literally Riot's iconic nerfing strategy when it comes to champions.

Remember when Feral Flare was a really big problem when used on Warwick, and it was only this item when Warwick became a problem? Riot nerfed Warwick in several key spots, and then proceeded to remove Feral Flare, leaving Warwick in the coffin for ages.

Remember when the original Cinderhulk was a really big problem when used on Sejuani, and it was only this item when Sejuani became a problem? Riot nerfed all of Sejuani's ability base damages, and her base stats - then nerfed Cinderhulk, which she is still in the coffin from to this day.

Remember when Kassadin was a problem post-rework because of the new AP Item changes? Riot nerfed Kassadin first, then nerfed the items afterwards which made Kassadin in to the garbage assassin he is now until late game.

Brand & Swain have both been in meh/terrible spots for roughly two seasons in a row, and now that Deathfire Touch is great on them because of their DoT's - Riot's nerfing them. Shortly after, I can almost guarantee that Riot will end up nerfing the ratios and base damage on Deathfire Touch, and Brand & Swain will be even worse than they were before.

brand needed nerfs before dft

I can't fucking believe they're nerfing Brand. What logic is there to that? Are we gonna nerf every champ that gives shields to other champs now?

Brand doesn't need a nerf. They increased the mana cost of his W, which already had a very high cost to begin with. This change is extremely surprising and a tad upsetting for us Brand players

As someone who likes playing Brand, I want to point out that nobody ASKED for a Deathfire mastery, and nobody asked for it to work so well with DoT mages. Maybe instead of nerfing a champion who received no direct buffs and who not long ago was a risky pick (during the League of Assassins he was virtually unplayable), Riot should address the Deathfire mastery first and see if he is still too strong.

I agree, they should just nerf DFT, or better yet give us our old masteries back until they have the entire thing fixed.

They'd have to revert the nerfs only if they removed DFT. However, just nerfing it doesn't necessarily warrant reverting the nerfs - Brand was rather strong pre-preseason, as well, due to the changes to Rylai's a while back (40% for 1 second on AoE, 20% for his passive ticking afterwards).

Also, the mana cost increase on Pillar has less to do with DFT, I think, and more with the buffs to . That item now gives Brand 4 Mp5 at level 1, +0.3/lvl, up from 3 at all times. And considering that one of Brand's more common builds is 2 Doran's into Rylai's...

Sejuani and Sion would disagree

Personally I would prefer Riot to balance Masteries, Runes and Items before they even touch champion balance in the preseason, because things are still all over the place right now, anyway...

I agree that the Swain nerfs are unjustified, especially for a champion who hasn't even been that highly picked, despite his perceived synergy with DfT. It's not like they are even hitting his DoTs/sustained dmg here which are the 'problem', a CC duration nerf (forcing him to max W second, leaving Q with abysmal damage) is incredibly harsh and unwarranted.

Brand however has been crowding out bot-lane (and more recently mid lane) for a few months now, and maintaining an impressive win rate while doing so; it's not like he only became popular with Deathfire Touch, he was doing really well before the masteries were changed. People trying to dispute this are in denial, Brand has been having an impact for a long time now.

The problem I have with the Brand nerfs is that they aren't hitting him where they ought to be. This is only going to hit his mid-lane performance, not botlane because support Brand gets to buy or which gives a ton of mana regen. It will just pigeon-hole Mid lane Brand into getting Double Doran's/Morellonomicon sooner.

Instead what they should do if they want to meaningfully nerf Brand is any ONE of these:

• Hit his base mana regen. He has the mana regen of a support early game (8 per 5) rather than that of most mages (6 per 5), buff his scaling regen to compensate
• Lower his base movement speed. 340 M/S is uncharacteristically high considering his range, it provides him with a bit too much safety, give him the treatment.
• Have his Q stun scale with CHAMPION level, like rather than ability level (hitting Brand Supp much harder than Mid) or just reduce the duration flatly from 2s to 1.5s
• Increase the delay/reduce the radius of W, meaning he has to move slightly closer to ensure he hits with it

They will nerf DFT too. Actually only DoT mages will be suffer from this nerf.

Deathfire Touch [Ferocity- Tier 6] [Damage changed] Base Damage changed to [8 + 50% bonus AD & 20% AP over 4 seconds] from [6 + 50% bonus AD & 20% AP over 3 seconds] [Duration changed] Burn Duration for Single target increased to 4 seconds from 3 seconds. Burn Duration for AoE increased to 2 seconds from 1.5 seconds Burn Duration for damage over time decreased to 1 second from 1.5 seconds.

DFT is only good on DoT mages. So here we are nerfing 2 DoT mages cause they're abusing our shitty masteries we never bothered thinking out. oh yeah we're also nerfing out shitty masteries too.

actually works vs dot's

hue

Buy it vs brand and spam laugh as his passive and dft do nothing the first 6 lvl's

he relies on snowballing and you can shut that down 100% with 1 frikkin cheap item rofl

I had with the tough skin mastery and 600 hp brand should have done 12 damage per second for 4 seconds with his passive but instead he did 2 damage with it so it works ive tested it. Meanwhile dft did 0 damage for the first few levels 1-6 and the same for potion of corruption.

Soooo i call bullshit on Brand op

People are just dumb and can't think harder then their farts to come up with counter options

Brand and SWAIN are broken

The fact that brand atm can go support and outdamage the mid laner MEAN SOMETHING

Both of the champions and the mastery for Dot damage need nerf

AND NO nerfing a mastery to the ground because 2 champions abuse it IS WRONG

Brand and swain need nerf i know that you all bronzies here want to abuse free elo champions to fix your bronze MMR for season 6 and you think the chaos of preseason would offer that but you need to understand that you dont deserve higher than bronze simple because you cant play thegame so stop pretending that you know about brand and swain when you are bronze

DFT nerfs are already on the PBE, thank you for playing, game over.

No seriously, I'm a swain main and I just reacted the same way as you.

well, i think, in theory, brand's ult should not be able to bounce on his own minions. This is lame.

Or just nerf DFT and don't touch those two? In fact isn't the damage of DFT reduced for dots anyway?

Leave my poor Brand alone!

cries in a corner

Maybe they'll gut yasuo's kit, too! :D

as a brand main they nerfed the mana cost by 20 i never built mana regen on brand and this wont force anyone too. His burst stays the same with 20 extra mana on his w thats like the mana buff they gave to kha

They are nerfing DFT on PBE...

...aaaand Swain and Anivia nerfs are still there. What a surprise. Why can't Riot take it slowly and see how they work out with just one nerf, like they did with RIven last time? Oh, that's right. These champions aren't flashy and popular enough, therefore they aren't selling skins - unlike Riven or Yasuo.

Remember Warwick? How he was OP because of Devourer? Then Devourer got nerfed. And Warwick got nerfed. And Devourer got nerfed some more. Now Warwick is nowhere to be seen - guess who is about to share the same fate?

(notices Malzahar has once again escaped the nerf-hammer, says nothing and walks away grinning)

I don't like the nerfs, they will nerf DFT later and Swain and Brand will get double hit.

Link below is why I don't agree with at least the Swain nerf. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/MOasm5QZ-trying-to-understand-nerf-choices?comment=0000