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Champions that need reverts

TheSingularity··2 votes·1,165 views

Zac Sejuani Both have the same problem. In their reworks, they gained more hard CC. Now both suffer from their use in pro play and remain garbage tier because of it. Their new spells aren't at all special, from what I've read many prefer their old ultimates

Graves an unbalanceable nightmare who's been at the top of the jungle food chain since his horrific conception. Assassin, tank, mage, fighter, duelist all rolled into one disgusting monstrosity.

Leblanc If you're going to give her instant burst back, then remove the stupidly long chain that she kept from the rework for some godforsaken reason.

Malzahar Unhealthy, uninteractive kit. Deemed a failure by the entire malzahar community. Honestly gobsmacked they haven't done so already given who else has been reverted.

Skarner Bluntly, crystal venom skarner is objectively better in every way and isn't locked to the jungle by some stupid passive. Until they figure out a rework for their true vision of him (which they do plan to do), at least give us an enjoyable champion

agree? disagree?

11 Comments

DerMangoJoghurt4 votes

I play both Zac and Sejuani occasionally and I much prefer their updated kits.

Old Sejuani was nothing without her ult. Of course it was really powerful to land a full team stun, but the rest of her kit barely did anything. Her passive were just defense stats while in battle, that has to be one of the most uninteractive passives in the game. She was great in starting fights or turning them around, but had nothing to do while in them. Her aoe rarely hit more than 2 people and didn't really do damage, the slow was too weak to be impactful, all she really had was one short knockup. Now she's more well rounded, and it feels thematically awesome to charge into battle with your melees and proc stuns left, right and center.

Zac is a similar case although not quite as bad. Granted, I haven't played him a lot before the rework, but he had the same problem. Awesome ult that caused a lot of disruption, but barely anything else in his kit. His Q was a weak slow and his W was barely noticeable (and still isn't). Again it feels a lot better thematically to attach one arm to an enemy, the second arm to another, and just slam them together. Or just gooping up half of their team and relocating it to the middle of your team.

I'm not too concerned with their strength. I play and win around half of my games with them. I don't really care if it's 48%, 45% or even 40%. What matters to me is that I'm having fun with the champions. And the updated kits definitely deliver on this, while the old versions felt kind of 'meh' to me.

TheSingularity1 votes

Played old zac a tonne and his ult was the big reason for it, it embodied his bouncing blob perfectly and could do everything the new one does. The new one is just, meh. So anti climactic, lacks the fun of the old one. There was some skill expression in it where as the new one is ult and hope no one escapes. His new Q is good and all but it killed his lane potential as he no longer has a poking tool. His W isn't really meant to be noticeable? It's there purely for blob production. He's now locked into jungling, like graves, like skarner because he no longer has a tool to lane with.

The issue with balancing current sej is she went from 3 CC spells to 5, the most of any tank in the game overtaking nautilus. What she did while in fights was the same as every other tank. Sit there, take damage, deal jst enough dmg to b a threat and spam a low cooldown CC spell. Her damage was fine given she was obliterated in season 5 do to her obscene damage in that meta

Both of your comments on their slows is silly, as they're stock standard slows: Old zac 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 / 40% 2 seconds Old sej 50 / 55 / 60 / 65 / 70% 1.5 seconds

Ornn 40 / 45 / 50 / 55 / 60% 2 seconds (slows than Zac Q) Maokai 35% 2 seconds Poppy 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 / 40% as long as they stand on Q Sion 40 / 45 / 50 / 55 / 60% 2.5 seconds Kench 30 / 40 / 50 / 60 / 70% 1.5 seconds naut 30 / 35 / 40 / 45 / 50% 1.5 seconds

I'm not too concerned with their strength

Neither am I unless they're intentionally kept blatantly weaker than other tanks for no other reason than "MEH PRO PLAY!!!!!". It's mostly fun factor which was completely sucked out of zac for me, his new Q isn't worth losing his old R. Sej it was just the climactic part of landing those sweet ults, where as now there is no climactic bit, it's just there y'know?

DerMangoJoghurt2 votes

Both of your comments on their slows is silly, as they're stock standard slows

I think their slows are not impactful since slows in general are way less impactful than other types of cc. What makes the slows of most examples you mentioned work, is that they synergize well with the champions respective kit by holding the enemy in place long enough to hit the next ability. Think of second Poppy Q, Ornn E, Sion Q, Tahm Kench passive stacks and so on. However, Sejuani and Zac have no follow-up abilities that would require a slow. That's why I think their slows were weak.

Neither am I unless they're intentionally kept blatantly weaker than other tanks for no other reason than "MEH PRO PLAY!!!!!".

Pro play is part of this game, we just have to accept that. If something is too strong in low elo it get's nerfed even if that means it's weak in high elo. There's no reason it shouldn't work the other way around.

The rest of your argument is pretty subjective. You prefer the old Zac R, I prefer the new one. You prefer Sejuani with one high impact ability, I prefer her with multiple medium impact abilities. I feel sorry for you. Losing something that made a champion fun to play for oneself sucks. But please don't just ignore everything good the reworks have done and all the players who like the new versions.

SoundChaosDebug2 votes

Add yorick in there too

TheSingularity1 votes

Tbh he's healthier and better now than pre rework. If they revert they'd have to make a new skin, and put him back in the gutter due to his unhealthy play pattern

BeatzBoyFTW2 votes

...uh, why?

DODGEORLOSE1 votes

I like malz. I don't like playing against him, but I like his kit. It makes sense to me.

TheSingularity1 votes

His old kit is basically the same

DODGEORLOSE1 votes

{quoted}

His old kit is basically the same

I'm pretty sure his old kit was worse. It didn't spawn as many voidlings and his e didn't get refreshed by his q or ult.

Beacon Academy2 votes

Voidlings were tankier and far more useful early game (pvp) and could still deal lots of damage to towers later

The separation of Voidling and Spell scaling gave Malzahar more options in terms of builds (AD or AP)

Voidlings and Spells were individually stronger because of that separation as well.

Saying new Malzahar is basically old Malzahar is incorrect.

Old Malzahar was far superior.

He taught the importance of positioning. Now he has a safety blanket that forgives you for being stupid.

He also taught the importance of timing and lane control by utilizing the stages of growth of your Voidlings.

The current spammability and resets of both his spells and voidlings have both decreased his individual spell damage and cheapened him into a state of boringness where risky thrills possible due to high base damage have been replaced with play-like-a-bitch-and-let-my-team-KS-off-my-R mid lane support mentality.

Pandemic Punch1 votes

Zac, sejuani, soraka, shen, malzahar

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