Sion is underwhelming

Commando Yi··8 votes·1,479 views

**Passive is useless ** Walk away from him after killing him and he revives about 5 years later to find no one around him and just dies on his own - don't forget he can't use summoners or his regular abilities - that might have given him a chance at catching someone

Bonus HP Passive is garbage You need a minimum of 300cs to reach the same BASE hp that the old Sion had even without his hp passive which in itself was also stronger.

Q sucks I take it whoever designed him thought Astaroth's slowest attacks were very difficult to dodge in Soul Calibur. You will never land the full windup unless it's a team fight and even then you get easily interrupted.

Ult is easily avoided You can hear him coming. You know that he can't make any sharp turns - anyone can easily dodge this ability.

Kit makes zero sense QWER of an ad tank with the passive of a melee carry with the exception that any and all attack speed items will not work with his passive.

24 Comments

4nth0l0gy8 votes

Aw you guys are the worst, it's the first day he's available! Give him some time.

Passive I agree needs a little buffing to feel significant. It's not good for locking down kills. But, if you're at an objective like an inhibitor or a nexus, congratulations, you just finished the job. And considering the rest of his kit is designed around zone control, he REALLY shines at securing objectives.

Q does not suck. It can be interrupted, and it does take a bit to wind up, but it's low CD, provides crazy amounts of CC, and has a HUGE range for a basic ability on a melee. Definitely not a bad ability.

His ult is difficult, but you can reactivate it to stop and ground slam, which helps make up for its difficult aiming a little. That's not perfect though. I also agree the yelling is obnoxious for strategic purposes, but taking that away might be like making any other semi-global ult not give away the fact that an enemy was teleporting, potentially right behind you. Because Sion's ult is, in some ways, a semi-global. I trust Riot put a lot of thought into whether or not Sion should announce his approach.

His kit makes TONS of sense, are you kidding me? He's an unkillable CC AOE tank! If you're building him around his passive you're doing it wrong. I don't even build AD on him; his shield is phenomenal, both in tanking potential and in damage (%health of enemy target, as an AOE, is nuts), and his Q has a great base ratio. He has lockdown with his E to keep the enemy in range of his Q and W pop, and his R is one of the best engage tools in the game; when used right, you can knockup an enemy team, pop your shield for %hp on all hit enemies, then charge your Q (while they're still stunned) and force them to either flash or die as your team arrives three seconds later. And he can do this to one, or MULTIPLE enemies simultaneously. How is that not amazing? Rammus is jealous of that. Sejuani is jealous of that.

Just give him a chance, okay?

Commando Yi1 votes

Aw you guys are the worst, it's the first day he's available! Give him some time.

Passive I agree needs a little buffing to feel significant.

Q does not suck. It can be interrupted, and it does take a bit to wind up, but it's low CD, provides crazy amounts of CC, and has a HUGE range for a basic ability on a melee. Definitely not a bad ability.

His ult is difficult. I also agree the yelling is obnoxious for strategic purposes, but taking that away might be like making any other semi-global ult not give away the fact that an enemy was teleporting, potentially right behind you. Because Sion's ult is, in some ways, a semi-global. I trust Riot put a lot of thought into whether or not Sion should announce his approach.

His kit makes TONS of sense, are you kidding me? He's an unkillable CC AOE tank! If you're building him around his passive you're doing it wrong. I don't even build AD on him; his shield is phenomenal, both in tanking potential and in damage (%health of enemy target, as an AOE, is nuts), and his Q has a great base ratio. He has lockdown with his E to keep the enemy in range of his Q and W pop, and his R is one of the best engage tools in the game; when used right, you can knockup an enemy team, pop your shield for %hp on all hit enemies, then charge your Q (while they're still stunned) and force them to either flash or die as your team arrives three seconds later. And he can do this to one, or MULTIPLE enemies simultaneously. How is that not amazing? Rammus is jealous of that. Sejuani is jealous of that.

Just give him a chance, okay?

you just said his kit makes sense - then said to ignore his passive and not build around it - which is precisely what i'm pointing at when i say his kit doesn't make sense

might want to reread the last point

4nth0l0gy3 votes

The passive is one aspect of his kit, and the least significant (in my opinion) in determining whether a champion's kit is cohesive or not. Do you judge aatrox's viability as a champion because of his revive? Or Anivia's? I hope not.

His passive is a little wonky, I conceded that, but it's a bonus. It's not meant to be core to his kit, it's just a thematic add-on. The rest of his kit works really well together. And so what if he gets attack speed and lifesteal in passive? Imagine this ability on an AD carry, it would be completely broken. The only reason it's not broken is BECAUSE it goes on a tank that doesn't get those stats inherently. Imagine Vayne getting that. or Yi, even.

Commando Yi1 votes

The passive is one aspect of his kit, and the least significant (in my opinion) in determining whether a champion's kit is cohesive or not. Do you judge aatrox's viability as a champion because of his revive? Or Anivia's? I hope not.

His passive is a little wonky, I conceded that, but it's a bonus. It's not meant to be core to his kit, it's just a thematic add-on. The rest of his kit works really well together. And so what if he gets attack speed and lifesteal in passive? Imagine this ability on an AD carry, it would be completely broken. The only reason it's not broken is BECAUSE it goes on a tank that doesn't get those stats inherently. Imagine Vayne getting that. or Yi, even.

aatrox's passive is a huge part of his identity as a champion and works with the rest of his kit - it has offensive implications anivia's passive is also very impactful defensively particularly if it means people have to tank turret fire to finish the job

you're right that these stats may be strong on an ad carry - and the only reason they put it in is to say that they've kept parts of the old ad sion - which would have been fine and dandy had the rest of his kit been a melee carry kit but it's not which is why it is a mess ~ even the passive itself isn't melee carry friendly as it ignores attack speed items

consider for example, if nautilus had a passive where after he died, he gains 40% move speed, 80% attack speed and cannot be slowed for 8 seconds - do you see how silly this is? his current passive of stun on attack is substantially better and works with the rest of his kit

4nth0l0gy1 votes

All right, Aatrox is a bad example because his passive allowed for cheese diving, which nobody liked and Riot nerfed. Same with Zac. Would you play Anivia if she didn't become an egg when she lost all her HP? The answer for a viable champion should be "yes". Revive ults are like that.

So, I really don't care about Sion's passive all that much. I don't put much weight on it unless it's significant to the champion's overall effectiveness, which not every passive is, or needs to be. I think Sion's passive is fun and flavorful, even if it's not going to net me kills. If we cared about every passive to the point of viability, we wouldn't play Kog'Maw because he has the worst ADC passive in the game.

What I'm more interested in, and what you don't seem to want to talk about anymore, is the rest of his kit, which I think is not only cohesive, but strong. And fun! If Sion is bad (he's not) because of his kit on the whole, then he needs to be changed or buffed. If, however, Sion's passive is bad but the rest of his kit is good, I could care less.

Commando Yi1 votes

All right, Aatrox is a bad example because his passive allowed for cheese diving, which nobody liked and Riot nerfed. Same with Zac. Would you play Anivia if she didn't become an egg when she lost all her HP? The answer for a viable champion should be "yes". Revive ults are like that.

So, I really don't care about Sion's passive all that much. I don't put much weight on it unless it's significant to the champion's overall effectiveness, which not every passive is, or needs to be. I think Sion's passive is fun and flavorful, even if it's not going to net me kills. If we cared about every passive to the point of viability, we wouldn't play Kog'Maw because he has the worst ADC passive in the game.

What I'm more interested in, and what you don't seem to want to talk about anymore, is the rest of his kit, which I think is not only cohesive, but strong. And fun! If Sion is bad (he's not) because of his kit on the whole, then he needs to be changed or buffed. If, however, Sion's passive is bad but the rest of his kit is good, I could care less.

i agree the rest of his kit (QWER) make for a fun and viable tank - though the deficiencies in his Q and R will become a bigger problem in competitive play

wolfax2 votes

His passive is not meant to be built around. It's job is to make him a super juggernaut during the ability. It's not the defining part of his kit that you should build around. They made it provide all the stats so you weren't forced to build glass cannon to make it useful.

MasterTeaDrinker6 votes

Disagree with OP i think Sion will be fun to play imo.

Damanzi2 votes

He doesn't feel fun to me either. Pretty boring and kinda tedious.

wolfax2 votes

Better than old Sion at least. Old AD Sion was 2.5 skills, and 2 were passive buffs. The other .5 was the stun that you only needed one point in to make it just as useful. AP Sion actually had 2 skills (no ult though and the passive was taken last too) at least, but also had the big minus of making no sense. Undead sorcerer who wields a massive battle axe and had no relation to magic at all in his former life?

Damanzi1 votes

SO..like vayne?

Junkο2 votes

His Q is actually a pretty good trading tool early, and it isn't that hard to land early against a non mobile melee top. However most tops not are either ranged or have a dash/blink so yea.... Also late game you won't hit it even against a non mobile team.

His passive is useless.

it's impossible to hit his ult without being on top of the enemy champions (which doesn't do that much damage). I played him in a bot game twice, both times i missed the ult and almost hit a wall because the bots decided to move 5 units to the left/right of where i was going. (I was in the river, the bots were in the middle of top lane)

Commando Yi1 votes

His Q is actually a pretty good trading tool early, and it isn't that hard to land early against a non mobile melee top. However most tops not are either ranged or have a dash/blink so yea.... Also late game you won't hit it even against a non mobile team.

His passive is useless.

it's impossible to hit his ult without being on top of the enemy champions (which doesn't do that much damage). I played him in a bot game twice, both times i missed the ult and almost hit a wall because the bots decided to move 5 units to the left/right of where i was going. (I was in the river, the bots were in the middle of top lane)

someone from the eu forums :o ?

Junkο1 votes

I have a NA account (Ninetales9) but since i can, i will just use my new main to post.

Hi Comamndo Yi!

Commando Yi1 votes

I have a NA account (Ninetales9) but since i can, i will just use my new main to post.

Hi Comamndo Yi!

hi !

TUfekAeySi1 votes

A big on the negative side (his Q does hit like a truck if you somehow get it off) but yeah, this is kinda the impression I got too.

He's a ton of fun to play but it always feels like you have to try harder to use your abilities than the enemy does to counter them. Like, a lot harder.

Lv99 Red Chocobo1 votes

I also miss his old phrases and voice... :( his new stuff is all so boring.

Malhavoc1 votes

I think the only thing they need to do as far as his passive is concerned. Is allow items/runes/masteries to still effect his stats but not allow for activatables. This would allow defensive-centric Sions more resistance to CC's to close the gap on enemies and reduce the damage they take to increase the duration of the passive. While offensive built Sions would benefit from increased damage and lifesteal to sustain the passive as well. but at the very least, the one ability he gets during passive should provide a resistance to CC's. I can understand not allow for summoner spells to be used though, since he's basically in a berserk state to the point where he discards his weapon. And yes, the bleed out should be a flat (but scaling) amount. This would reward tanky Sions with increased duration, but not effect offensive Sions much if they're using Lifesteal items and masteries since that will reduce it's effect as well if you can stay in contact (higher risk but higher reward and counter-play).

junglerboy162 votes

Those things DO affect his stats while his passive is on, which is why trinity force, frozen mallet, and furor are good on him. It has to be % damage because he heals for 100% of the damage he deals on each hit, which is equal to his AD and 10% MAX health each hit (that means you heal for roughly 10% of your targets max health each hit). If he is able to keep attacking someone consistently (kinda hard, ik) his passive can go on for a VERY long time in comparison to other post death passives. The 10% enemy max health on hit is specifically to make it so he can build tank and still murder n00bs with his passive.

Solnaga1 votes

I feel like Sion should become invisible on the minimap during his ult. :) I mean, you already know he's coming right? Also he should shout "I'm coming!!!" and everyone should be able to hear it hahahaha

Sukishoo1 votes

I can't take this seriously at all, since you have a name from one of the most Broken Easy-to-use Assassins in the game.

Junkο1 votes

Yi =/= Assassin

He is also Diamond (or used to be)

GigglesO1 votes

**Passive is useless ** Walk away from him after killing him and he revives about 5 years later to find no one around him and just dies on his own - don't forget he can't use summoners or his regular abilities - that might have given him a chance at catching someone

Bonus HP Passive is garbage You need a minimum of 300cs to reach the same BASE hp that the old Sion had even without his hp passive which in itself was also stronger.

Q sucks I take it whoever designed him thought Astaroth's slowest attacks were very difficult to dodge in Soul Calibur. You will never land the full windup unless it's a team fight and even then you get easily interrupted.

Ult is easily avoided You can hear him coming. You know that he can't make any sharp turns - anyone can easily dodge this ability.

Kit makes zero sense QWER of an ad tank with the passive of a melee carry with the exception that any and all attack speed items will not work with his passive.

I had a 60% win rate with ad Sion, now he is just somebody that I used to know.

I agree fully.

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