Annie's Tibber should have a delay instead of being instant.

Yuumi or Lose·Feb 26, 2015·5 votes·1,607 views

Yeah, that's right. If Veigar is going down then I'm taking Annie down with me too. Her ult needs to have a delay. There's no counterplay in that. Wtf Riot? I saw the Cinematic when Annie threw her bear and it wasn't instant. Make Annie's ult like Corki's Q. Lob that shit. Come on let me see it. I'm being lied to. I'm almost installing Dota 2. If you want to stop me then do what I say. I am 100% correct. I should work for you. I can make you billions of dollars. The choice is yours.

23 Comments

StephenizgodFeb 26, 20152 votes

Your entire post is non-sense except where you ask for Annie stun to have a delay lol. That i agree with, because (im not a Riot hater but im not afraid to tell them when they have done something contradictory) they specifically said there is no counterplay to Veigars stun because it is instant. Annie's stun is also instant, its also way easier to land specially on more then 1 person, she 100-0 people the same as Veigar so its like dealing with roughly the same thing.

I dont mind the delay on Veigar at all, i think they need to enforce this! Instant hard CC lacks counterplay other then Banshees which just automatically blocks it no skill required. On Veigar one could say that Cleanse and QSS are counters too but only because Veigars stun doesnt deal a sh*t ton of damage, Annie's STUN usually comes with Tibbers and Tibbers is a mass of damage.

Edit: there i fixed it TaIont...

Edge of DaybreakFeb 26, 20156 votes

Good god there is so much wrong here it should be criminal. First thing's first annie's stun does have a delay. She has to cast 4 spells before she can get it up again. Next the stun isn't built into her ult. Unless someone is dumb enough to think making her W and ult have a delay would be smart then she would never get a change like that because it would only make her ass unless they buffed the shit out of her.

This next quote is just god tier "Annie's ult usually comes with Tibbers and Tibbers is a mass of damage." Usually comes with tibbers? When has annie's ult not come with tibbers? Are we playing that same game or do you have magic annie's who are throwing fizz sharks at you instead?

Just because it will save me time lets copy paste. Veigar does not have to cast other spells to stun you. Veigar can still farm with other skills while holding his stun. Annie has an indicator for when she can stun you while Veigar just test your math skills. Veigar also has more range he can stun you from.

There is literally nothing contradictory about what they did as these aren't even close to being the same. Veigar even gets a longer stun duration.

Spicy RiceFeb 26, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Good god there is so much wrong here it should be criminal. First thing's first annie's stun does have a delay. She has to cast 4 spells before she can get it up again. Next the stun isn't built into her ult. Unless someone is dumb enough to think making her W and ult have a delay would be smart then she would never get a change like that because it would only make her ass unless they buffed the shit out of her.

This next quote is just god tier "Annie's ult usually comes with Tibbers and Tibbers is a mass of damage." Usually comes with tibbers? When has annie's ult not come with tibbers? Are we playing that same game or do you have magic annie's who are throwing fizz sharks at you instead?

Just because it will save me time lets copy paste. Veigar does not have to cast other spells to stun you. Veigar can still farm with other skills while holding his stun. Annie has an indicator for when she can stun you while Veigar just test your math skills. Veigar also has more range he can stun you from.

There is literally nothing contradictory about what they did as these aren't even close to being the same. Veigar even gets a longer stun duration.

soo, annie casting 4 spells and holding the stun isnt the same as veigar holding a stun that has an ungodly cd?

Also, annie doesn't even need the farm, basically solo kills an adc at level 6 with sheer base damage. Did i mention that the stun she has is much easier to land than veig's old one? Its either a targeted stun, an aoe cone, or just an aoe that also has a giant flaming bear trying to have kids with you and your adc

Edge of DaybreakFeb 26, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spicy Rice,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LQo51OEN,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-02-26T06:25:04.035+0000)

soo, annie casting 4 spells and holding the stun isnt the same as veigar holding a stun that has an ungodly cd?

Also, annie doesn't even need the farm, basically solo kills an adc at level 6 with sheer base damage. Did i mention that the stun she has is much easier to land than veig's old one? Its either a targeted stun, an aoe cone, or just an aoe that also has a giant flaming bear trying to have kids with you and your adc

No it is not the same when I literally cannot use any offensive spells to farm or I drop my stun vs Veigar who has the same number of offensive spells and had a longer range instant stun. Veigar outbase damages annie for the entire game. He also gets the bonus of blocking off paths with his E which is utility annie wishes she had. I don't see how instant is easier than instant with a better range and 0 warning. Unless you hard read veigar you didn't dodge his stun it was only on him to miss it in the same way that you would have to dodge an annie ult/W.

Malix FarwinFeb 26, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spicy Rice,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LQo51OEN,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-02-26T06:25:04.035+0000)

soo, annie casting 4 spells and holding the stun isnt the same as veigar holding a stun that has an ungodly cd?

Also, annie doesn't even need the farm, basically solo kills an adc at level 6 with sheer base damage. Did i mention that the stun she has is much easier to land than veig's old one? Its either a targeted stun, an aoe cone, or just an aoe that also has a giant flaming bear trying to have kids with you and your adc

you know on amumu i could just q in and ult with a longer range. with malphite i could just ult in. You are crying over a non issue.

StephenizgodFeb 26, 20152 votes

Well Annie can hold a stun all game if she wanted and then immediately land it at any time... and casting 4 spells for her is easy... Veigar can not, he always needs to keep in mind his delay and needs to be extremely careful of when he uses it. Annies abilities are all easy to land and easy to use, Veigars require more timing and aiming. Also, only Tibbers should have a delay or it should have a warning.

Veigar stun before rework required the same amount of skill and timing as Annie's Tibbers stun, point and click. Now it requires a lot of skill and timing, they need to to the same with Annie. They both have the same concept of land CC and erase target, why should one champions be restricted with balance limits and another not?

"Annie's ult usually comes with Tibbers and Tibbers is a mass of damage." Oops i obviously meant stun not ult but hey if you want to use this against me because you have nothing else going for your argument then by all means my bad.

They gave Veigar's stun counterplay because it lacked a reasonable amount, Annie's stun is the exact same and should be looked at as well. Maybe not a Delay, but it needs something because according to Riot's own statements one can grasp "INSTANT STUN=NO COUNTERPLAY"...

Edge of DaybreakFeb 26, 20152 votes

{quoted}

snip

If they change annie ult then annie players will just Q or W you. There will be no change in playstyle other than just nerfing her ult just cause nerf annie ult. You would literally have to put a delay on 3/4's of her kit to stop the complaints because the stun is passive and not tied to the skill like veigars. The only way to give annie stun counterplay is to make her entirely useless in some way.

StephenizgodFeb 26, 20152 votes

Thats the point, make it so its less desirable for her to Ult+Stun, push it more onto the Q or W.

Edge of DaybreakFeb 26, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Thats the point, make it so its less desirable for her to Ult+Stun, push it more onto the Q or W.

W IS INSTANT! IT DOESN'T SOLVE THE PROBLEM OF IT BENG AN INSTANT STUN! MAKING HER PUSH A DIFFERENT BUTTON FOR THE SAME THING IS POINTLESS! Please I beg you just get it. Understand it please.

StephenizgodFeb 26, 20152 votes

W is not as reliable or damaging as Tibbers, it does decent damage and has a good cast range but Tibbers is instant point click anywhere you want rather then only in front of you like the W. But if you honestly believe it is the same thing then maybe there should be a delay on that too -.-

Edge of DaybreakFeb 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

W is not as reliable or damaging as Tibbers, it does decent damage and has a good cast range but Tibbers is instant point click anywhere you want rather then only in front of you like the W. But if you honestly believe it is the same thing then maybe there should be a delay on that too -.-

Instant stun on W. Instant stun on ult. If annie is gonna flash W you its going to end up the same way that a flash ult is. I dont see why you needed to mention that her non ult skill isnt as damaging as her ult that was pointless but anyway I have a question for you. How would you put a delay on annie's passive when it's an on next cast effect? How would you solve the problem of W and ult being instant stuns while still keeping annie playable?

StephenizgodFeb 26, 20151 votes

Like i said leave the W, its not as reliable or damaging. Its easy to miss or not hit everyone with it plus there are certain ways to deal with cone abilities. Second Tibbers would have a very short like .5 sec delay before appearing.

I dont know why you dont understand that an instant stun is an instant stun... If they want to change Veigars stun because it was instant and offered little counter-play then they need to change Annie too. The abilities themselves are different thats for sure, old veigar stun was way harder to hit reliably, but the point is not how easy or hard it is the point is INSTANT STUNS OFFER LITTLE TO NO COUNTERPLAY. You cant balance one champion with a certain set of rules and ignore all the other champions that have the same problems... you know the whole mobility creep and not paying for it ordeal? and yet only Kassadin gets hit with a nerf....

Edge of DaybreakFeb 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Like i said leave the W, its not as reliable or damaging. Its easy to miss or not hit everyone with it plus there are certain ways to deal with cone abilities. Second Tibbers would have a very short like .5 sec delay before appearing.

I dont know why you dont understand that an instant stun is an instant stun...

Balance in a vacuum will never work here. As long as they have entirely different conditions and functions then nerfing A because B got nerfed will never make sense. It would be like removing garen's silence because it is an undodgeable silence based on talon's silence getting removed. It makes no sense to do in the larger picture. If you ignore the other parts of the champions then you get a nightmare where we can totally ruin one champion based on changes done to another. It makes a lot more sense to give more counterplay to veigars stun than annies when you compare their entire kits. The current complaints are only looking at the fact that they both have stuns and nothing else.

StephenizgodFeb 26, 20151 votes

See i disagree, you cant compare Garen's Silence with Talon's silence, those are two totally different abilities with totally different mechanics. Garen can not 100-0 someone like Talon can, Talons is also an instant Gap Closer meaning you can not escape once in range whereas you can just run from Garen or CC him or flash before it hits you. It would be better to compare LeBlanc and Talon, but they both got their silences removed for having the exact same problems, the same with Kassadins Silence... see where im going?

They are already doing what you are suggesting they shouldnt do, Assassins with silences are too overpowered and offer no counterplay. Burst mages like Annie and Veigar having instant point and click stuns offer no counterplay. You are so caught up on the fact Annie and Veigar are different champions that you cant see what makes them so similar. They both just moved their mouse to an area and click their stun, you dont know when or where it will happen, you dont know whether you are in the danger zone or not, all you know is that you are about to get stunned the moment they get near you. Just like with Kassadin, Talon, and LeBlanc you knew you were going to get silenced the moment you got in range regardless of what you do (other then going untargetable or using a spell shield of course, but thats counterplay to literally everything so it doesnt count).

Im not saying Annie needs a delay, i was just saying it as an example, but they need to balance everyone fairly. This is why Lee Sin is so hated, he is not being balanced according to the same rules as everyone else (honestly he just needs some damage tweaks in my opinion but thats another discussion id be glad to have with you if you are open).

Malix FarwinFeb 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

W is not as reliable or damaging as Tibbers, it does decent damage and has a good cast range but Tibbers is instant point click anywhere you want rather then only in front of you like the W. But if you honestly believe it is the same thing then maybe there should be a delay on that too -.-

its just as reliable and doesn't have to to do as much as tibbers seeing as you could just drop tibbers on top afterwards anyways

StephenizgodFeb 26, 20151 votes

Not really, seeing as Tibbers can be dropped on someone like Braum and it will still stun everyone whereas W will hit only Braum. This is only one case but there are ways to deal with cone abilities, although Annies is special since it has great range and is instant.

All im saying is you cant balance Veigar with a set of rules but then not do it to other champions, they might as well just say "We just didnt like Veigar having an instant stun, its not a problem with instant stuns, just with Veigar having it" but they didnt say that they said it was a problem with the stun itself, Annie also has a similar instant stun.

Adrian BlackbearFeb 26, 20152 votes

But what about LC$ BIGPLAY$?

No, really though, nerf Annie.

Pvt Yong TaiFeb 26, 20152 votes

I agree. They ruined my Veigar, why not ruin my other main. I'm actually 100% all for this. ahem sorry not ruin, where did that come from? Certainly we should buff her by telegraph the landing spot and add a 1 second delay while increasing her cast range by 25.

StephenizgodFeb 26, 20151 votes

They should make her Q a skillshot that can hit 2 minions and return double the mana and then make her ult have a delay!

Honestly though the one thing i love about the new Veig is the Q, soooo much fun to farm and poke with the same spell.

FarRockBFFeb 26, 20152 votes

It is clear none of you have ever played both Annie and Veigar. Annie is much more utility. Sure she does damage but it is not significant enough to be her big thing. What makes Annie huge IS her ability to stun a whole team and allow your carries to burst them down. Veigar deletes single champions.

Two different champs; two completely different purposes. Annie never 100-0 chaps unless she had a massive lead. Veigar can do it every time regardless of items once he has some Q farm. Get the idea?

Malix FarwinFeb 26, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It is clear none of you have ever played both Annie and Veigar. Annie is much more utility. Sure she does damage but it is not significant enough to be her big thing. What makes Annie huge IS her ability to stun a whole team and allow your carries to burst them down. Veigar deletes single champions.

Two different champs; two completely different purposes. Annie never 100-0 chaps unless she had a massive lead. Veigar can do it every time regardless of items once he has some Q farm. Get the idea?

pretty sure even horizon can aoe stun

Malix FarwinFeb 26, 20151 votes

I bet you have no friends. "if i cant have something noone can"