Or at least pay for the chemotherapy I need after playing Vel'koz against Irelia in lane aka gap close and 100 to 0 in 2 seconds from 1250 range if I ever dare get into max wave clear range of the caster minions
Trying to play these champions with the meta being dominated by high mobility carries/bruisers and assassins is a waste of time.
heroikc1 votesI'd rather they give love to tanks... Also, which lane were you playing where you faced Irelia as Velkoz?
Paroe1 votesI'd rather they give love to tanks... Also, which lane were you playing where you faced Irelia as Velkoz?
Tanks in general need to be differentiated mechanically from bruisers and fighters. IMO what riot NEEDS to do is;
Like Braum. Braum should be the golden standard of tanks; Hes in-combat mobile, he intercepts damage, he provides some good CC. Speaking of CC... If youre meant to do damage, you shouldnt have CC (unless youre part support). If youre meant to dive you should have long-lasting soft CC (a spammable slow for example). If youre meant to be an enchanter, you should have reliable soft CC. If youre meant to be a tank, you should have strong hard CC.
heroikc1 votesTanks in general need to be differentiated mechanically from bruisers and fighters. IMO what riot NEEDS to do is;
- Choose what champions are ACTUAL tanks, not bruisers.
- rework all tanks to in some way intercept damage.
- Rework tank items to actually synergize with tanks instead of just being generalist items.
Like Braum. Braum should be the golden standard of tanks; Hes in-combat mobile, he intercepts damage, he provides some good CC. Speaking of CC... If youre meant to do damage, you shouldnt have CC (unless youre part support). If youre meant to dive you should have long-lasting soft CC (a spammable slow for example). If youre meant to be an enchanter, you should have reliable soft CC. If youre meant to be a tank, you should have strong hard CC.
You do know that Braum was designed to be a support as well, right?
What about 
?
They're the kind of tanks designed to get into the thick of a mess and keep everyone preoccupied or held down. They don't have the burst that 
have and yet they would get shredded by them in seconds, nowadays.
Paroe1 votesYou do know that Braum was designed to be a support as well, right? What about
Poppy is more a bruiser but yeah... Poppy, Orrn, and shen are "new generation" tanks who do a good amount of damage through %HP. Zac is too... to an extent, but hes AP so eh.
Seperating bruiser from tank is just an important first step. Bruisers should be "beefy" through HP - not "tanky". Its a problem that comes from how little riot has done to seperate tanks from other melee champion types and how general "tank" items are.
They have to do damage through %hp otherwise they would be ignored (most of the times). Bruisers and tanks have enough differences. Period.
heroikc1 votesPoppy is more a bruiser but yeah... Poppy, Orrn, and shen are "new generation" tanks who do a good amount of damage through %HP. Zac is too... to an extent, but hes AP so eh.
Seperating bruiser from tank is just an important first step. Bruisers should be "beefy" through HP - not "tanky". Its a problem that comes from how little riot has done to seperate tanks from other melee champion types and how general "tank" items are.
Poppy is still classified as a tank (specifically a Warden).
However, I will give you that you do have a point: the line dividing "tank items" and "bruiser items" is rather blurry.
Mechanical different? What do you even mean?
Tanks and fighters have distinctive differences.
Tanks are durable wall bricks that have a lot of cc (their durability usually comes through high resistances) Fighters are durable champs (not as much as tanks ofc) that can dish out a respectable damage.
And no they cant rework every tank to have the ability of braum.
As such the only way to make tanks a reliable threat (because lets be honest now) is to give them a bit of damage. Like their % max hp damage. But its easy to play around their main source of damage.
Paroe1 votesMechanical different? What do you even mean?
Tanks and fighters have distinctive differences.
Tanks are durable wall bricks that have a lot of cc (their durability usually comes through high resistances) Fighters are durable champs (not as much as tanks ofc) that can dish out a respectable damage.
And no they cant rework every tank to have the ability of braum.
As such the only way to make tanks a reliable threat (because lets be honest now) is to give them a bit of damage. Like their % max hp damage. But its easy to play around their main source of damage.
Making something the defining characteristic of a class is a thing riot is more than capable of. Champions still need to lane though - but that can be taken care of by utilizing conditional items.
They have to do damage through %hp otherwise they would be ignored (most of the times). Bruisers and tanks have enough differences. Period.
They... dont. Tell me what is assassin itemization? Marksmen? Mage? Fighter? Juggernaut?
"tanks" are just low damage fighters of some kind or glorified bruisers; they arent really unique in their own right.
Making tanks have a niche - PROTECTING ALLIES WITH MEANS OTHER THAN SHIELDS - would be the perfect way to differentiate tanks from bruisers and fighters.
Once the class itself is different, itemization for them can be extracted from the general pool of items and become ACTUAL tank itemization.
Further, one way riot could easily differentiate tanks is by dramatically increasing their base HP so that a bruiser would need to fully devote themselves to building tanky in order to get the bonuses from tank items. Perhaps all "tank" items get the warmogs heart treatment, and the HP amounts on existing tank items are halved if one doesnt meet the HP requirement? Like increase the base HP of all tank primaries/intended tanks by 500 at level 18, and add in HP requirements on the tank items that make it so bruisers need to itemize tank if they want to actually get the full bonus of the item?
Making something the defining characteristic of a class is a thing riot is more than capable of. Champions still need to lane though - but that can be taken care of by utilizing conditional items.
So if i understand correctly, you propose if tanks want damage they should invest in damage items? Which if you do, shame on you. In order for a champ to lane, he needs damage. And if tanks buy damage items just so they will able to lane, is simply absurd.
Tell me what is assassin itemization? Marksmen? Mage? Fighter? Juggernaut?
Assassins itemization? For ad ones, every lethality item, black cleaver and currently, last whisper too. For ap ones, lichbane is the only core. Unfortunately ap users get the short stick in items with having the least variety. Marksmen? Pretty much every crit item. Mages, pretty much every ap item. Fighters well have their items split in half. Divers buy a bit of hp, but they might invest to some items that give attack damage. On the other hand, juggies prefer tanky ones since they lack target access without flash. As such tanky items will help them survive.
Making tanks have a niche - PROTECTING ALLIES WITH MEANS OTHER THAN SHIELDS - would be the perfect way to differentiate tanks from bruisers and fighters.
Emmm what? Their role is to soak damage and provide crowd control. Braum, tahm and taric have the niche of protecting allies. Not every tank's job is to protect allies. And again, FIGHTERS (bruisers and fighters are synonyms in lol terminology) deal DAMAGE while also being durable (they also come with some sort of sustain) enough to walk to the enemies. Tanks have tons of relatively easy to apply hard cc while being durable.
Perhaps all "tank" items get the warmogs heart treatment
Riot doesnt want (or at least in the past, i dont know their current thoughts on that) to limit the items accessibility, unless they are breaking the game.
Yenn1 votesI'd rather they give love to tanks... Also, which lane were you playing where you faced Irelia as Velkoz?
Irelia, Fiora, Camille, Gangplank, etc. are often being played at mid because their kits shit on assassins and AP carries.
Phieldworker1 votesI think you just gotta realize your champ gets dumped on by mobility. I beat a Zed with TF because I knew I couldn’t get far from turret. Play safer than you think. You don’t have to kill to win lane. Sometimes you justify gotta go even.
Yenn1 votesI think you just gotta realize your champ gets dumped on by mobility. I beat a Zed with TF because I knew I couldn’t get far from turret. Play safer than you think. You don’t have to kill to win lane. Sometimes you justify gotta go even.
Spoiler: If they can kill you from 100% health the instant you leave your turret, they can also do it under your turret. In a Diamond+ game, you'll just be dived repeatedly with the jungle as they juggle turret aggro.
Phieldworker1 votesSpoiler: If they can kill you from 100% health the instant you leave your turret, they can also do it under your turret. In a Diamond+ game, you'll just be dived repeatedly with the jungle as they juggle turret aggro.
I guess but I’ve watched diamond people play a karthus into irelia and win lane with the dives. I know I’m only silver but the concepts still apply. Communicate with your team if you’re expecting a dive. THere is always a way out.
DW Diana1 votesOr at least pay for the chemotherapy I need after playing Vel'koz against Irelia in lane aka gap close and 100 to 0 in 2 seconds from 1250 range if I ever dare get into max wave clear range of the caster minions
Trying to play these champions with the meta being dominated by high mobility carries/bruisers and assassins is a waste of time.
You realise that it was some of the immobile mages that used to counter the hypermobile hyper carries right? You remember last year when everyone cried about malz being able to play as support and they made him a spam mage? Remember when he was played at worlds and everyone cried that he had point and click stun and riot nerfed him? remember when he was played in pre season and everyone cried so riot nerfed him again? Remember the THREE more nerfs most of the boards spammed for and received with bells on?
Enjoy the meta. It was made by the players, for the players... unless you main Malz
Emm you do know that you are supposed to play against irelia just as you would play against zed right?
