Who set the standard that "inconsisent, but average" was good design?

deadlychuck··3 votes·275 views

Seriously League and numerous other games have moved this direction with their development philosophy over the past few years, where they seem to think that the probability of something can be considered a viable mitigation mechanism for power.

A few examples. (As an ability) If an ability lands, let's say, 20% of the time while dealing 200 damage = An ability landing 100% of the time, dealing 40 damage

(As a champion) If a champion wins, let's say, 50% of the time, by either a massive margin or a massive deficit = A champion which wins 50% of the time by a narrow margin of victory/loss.


I don't know what game, which dev, or even exactly when, this started to be considered good game design, but it needs to stop. I get that you can abuse that inconsistency to create simple dopamine rush similar to a big win in gambling, but it's not good game design.

A game can have a lot of variance, with minimal inconsistency. What matters is having a large variety of game states.

5 Comments

TehNACHO4 votes

Wow can you be more vague?

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

Wow can you be more vague?

that wasnt vague at all. he provided examples.

what the op is critisizing is that you can find that there are many parts of the game, from different mechanics to champions, that look statistically fine on average but have a huge variance which makes them kindof broken and unpredictable or simply unfun in individual cases.

i could help out here.

critical strikes as a mechanic follow this principle. on average a champion with only item 3031 in his inventory deals the same amount of dps as champions with just more flat ad. but they do so inconsistently. they will deal significantly less damage most of the time, until all of a sudden they deal a massive amount of damage and win the same fight that they lost 4 times just by random chance of getting two crits in a row. its one of the reasons why people hate laning against tryndamere. it feels more like you get beaten by RNG because he randomly crit you 3 times in a row on a level 2 trade, than that you got beaten by the enemy player.

Draven is an entire champion who is designed around this concept of being average with massive variance with his passive. he either decisively wins and destroys entire games, or hes a complete trash can because he never gets to cash in on his passive and just keeps losing his stacks. on average he might have a 50% winrate, but that winrate is a result of half the time stomping to the point where you can do little to stop him or getting stomped to the point where hes never relevant throughout an entire game.

kleptomancy as a rune is a mechanic that generates on average a certain amount of gold over a certain amount of procs in, lets say 10 minutes. but some games just by random chance, a champion suddenly got 3 gold stacks within the first 5 minutes of the game, and none for the next 5 minutes. in relation to game time over 10 minutes on average, it might look balanced. in reality this is as huge as an entire kill worth in gold very early on, which can snowball a lane and ultimately a game just by random chance. the rune generates the same amount of gold on average over 10 minutes, but is inconsistent about how the procs are spaced out, which can have a massive effect on individual games.

like i said. in terms of statistics, what op is talking about is a mechanic that is average when looked at a large number of data points, but has a huge variance.

TehNACHO1 votes

He made up incredibly vague examples.

If he posted exactly what you wrote he's fine, but he's throwing out stuff like the probability of abilities landing.

We're not playing Pokemon, he has all these examples you listed out but instead he's throwing theoretical Focus Blasts at us.

deadlychuck1 votes

I was only vague examples, because it seemed unfair to call out any particular champion or ability for doing this considering how rampant it has become, but if you want a more concrete example.

Khazix Either, he's going to get ahead, and will easily go 15+ kills rolling over anyone he passes, or he will not get ahead and would struggle to break even on kills to deaths.

This is something that first started becoming very noticeable with the introduction of the assassin class, but has since bled into many other champions of all classes, though the most noticeable is probably marksmen, where a marksmen behind will do no damage, but get a few kills ahead and you're auto attacking for 1/4-1/5 of someone's health.

Alternatively Zoe Q, it's a very small skillshot which has a very long travel time, meaning it's probability of landing is low, so to compensate this they approached the design as it being necessary to make it hit like an absolute truck.

Mordepool1 votes

Riot tends to over or undervalue parts of champions kits alot but if they end up close to 50% they won't change even if the gameplay is garbage

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