Skarner Rework Idea

Shahamut··10 votes·1,753 views

So, to preface, I was a big fan of Skarner pre-juggernaut. I felt he was finally in a fair and playable spot. He had good strengths, obvious weaknesses, and no rediculous free-lo mechanics to complain about. He was simple, but still had room for skill expression with the use of his passive, and Q was still his main skill.

As of right now, Skarner has a pathetic passive that feels (to me) like a poor attempt at homage to a removed game mode (RIP dominion). The rest of his Kit is stacked onto his E skill, and his Q is a poorly scaling glorified Sheen proc. E has: Initial damage, slow, stun+damage on proc, passive bonuses for 1 second on proc (attack/move speed + mana regen), self-cooldown reduction on proc.

When thinking about how I would rework Skarner, I first thought about how his Q was his bread and butter skill, and in the description it reads, "Skarner charges himself with Crystal Energy..." and I thought, why not a unique resource for this champion? I also saw that they experimented with something similar when making Nasus (thanks Jeremy GamingCurious) so the idea wouldn't be too hard for Riot to implement. So here is the short version (no numbers) of my idea:

Passive is now Crystal Energy, Skarner's unique resource. Auto attacking and using Crystal Slash gather crystal energy. The more energy he has, the faster he moves/attacks. (up to a cap, obviously), Energy falls off as Skarner moves around and uses abilities other than Q.

Q: Same, gathers energy per enemy hit, does bonus magic damage while skarner has Crystal Energy available. While empowered, it still gathers energy per enemy hit, but costs 1 point of Energy as well.

W: Costs Crystal Energy, same shield and ramp up speed mechanic, speed breaks with shield. If shield lasts for the duration without breaking, refund a portion of the spent energy.

E: Costs Crystal Energy to fire, no longer slows missile speed as it passes through targets. Targets are marked, procing mark stuns enemy for 1 second and restores extra crystal energy.

R: Same effect: Skarner rapidly gains Crystal Energy over the duration of the suppression. Each rank in R prevents Skarner's Crystal Energy from dropping below a certain point through sheer movement. (Can still drop below threshold from using abilities.)

This is a round draft thought, but would love to hear your thoughts on it.

EDIT: I had also thought of adding a poison sting as a passive on his ultimate: Every 5th/4th/3rd strike is an attack with his stinger, which poisons his target, slowing for a short duration and dealing bonus magic damage based on the target's health (haven't decided if current, missing or max would be most appropriate.)

EDIT 2: Food for thought:

"Skarner is a melee fighter. Who excels at not only dealing damage, but also controlling the battlefield. Utilizing basic attacks in addition to his abilities, Skarner is a true Hybrid fighter." ~Skarner Original Champion Spotlight

53 Comments

YuGiHo3 votes

get rid of the spires please, i hate them. i dont like seeing skarner on EITHER team because of that stupid passive.

PhearBunny1 votes

I just think he needs a different ult.

R- Crystalline Toxin Instantly stings a target champion or Monster. After 5seconds, the stung champion becomes a crystal statue for 5seconds and takes 15/25/35% of its maximum health as true damage over the 5seconds. Target is immune to all other sources of damage, and cannot be healed or shielded. When using on Monsters, deals 1500 True damage.

Currently his role is to grab a squishy and pull them into death. Not a reasonable role given his kit. He cant do it.

I would want to shift his role into being a Anti-Tank, Tank. He aims to sting the tank, removing the tank from the equation for 5seconds, so that your team can freely fight. Also, 35% max health true damage on a tank would be effective.

Shahamut4 votes

I respectfully disagree. Skarner's Ult is iconic to him. They just need to stop trying to make him an initiator tank, and put him back to being a duelist/hunter. He plays more like a skirmisher honestly. As a tank, however, hes really a warden, not a vanguard.

EDIT: Also, I am a huge advocate against %MAX HP TRUE DAMAGE... There is no counter to it, no way to build against it. 35% max HP true damage is effective vs squishies as well as tanks...

PhearBunny1 votes

id only give it to him, because he doesn't really do damage to begin with, and it would allow him to just build pure tank and still do some kind of relevant damage somewhere in his kit.

Kinda like Chogath, except less damage and more utility in the R.

and ik his ult is iconic, but it doesn't make sense, and its awful. Its a stinger, not a grappling hook lol.

There are many other ults in the game that do the same thing as his, and they are all significantly waaay waaaay better.

Shahamut1 votes

he doesn't really do damage to begin with

just build pure tank

Now Im sure you don't actually play skarner...

Venowolf1 votes

{quoted}

I respectfully disagree. Skarner's Ult is iconic to him. They just need to stop trying to make him an initiator tank, and put him back to being a duelist/hunter. He plays more like a skirmisher honestly. As a tank, however, hes really a warden, not a vanguard.

EDIT: Also, I am a huge advocate against %MAX HP TRUE DAMAGE... There is no counter to it, no way to build against it. 35% max HP true damage is effective vs squishies as well as tanks...

In the description say "Skarner the Crystal´s Vanguard" so they need to pronounce and remarks this identity of VANGAURD TANK giving him some tools to reach the BACK line and engage sucessufully a whole team fight!

Shahamut1 votes

Remember, his title was given back in the day when "Vanguard" wasn't a term they used to define sub classes of tanks. Skarner was a "fighter", in the day that "fighter" simply meant a melee damage dealer.

Old School Terms:

Tank: Melee Damage soaker- front line initiator/backline peelers Fighter: Melee Damage Dealer Mage: AP spell slinger, focused on burst and utility Marksmen: Ranged damage dealer

If Skarner was made today with the same general concept as his initial creation, he would be a Slayer- Skirmisher. He excels at dealing sustained damage and chasing/locking down single targets. He's a hunter. He's after the jerks who took his brothers' crystals, and he will kill them all... one at a time... as he finds them...

Like any other Skirmisher, he has some other situational utility to offer, since if he is not even or ahead, he can't really duel efficiently:

Fiora- Front line killer- Her %MAX HP True damage can kill a front line tank quickly. The heal from her ultimate makes it where fighting the tank first is less punishing.

Yasuo- Zone control with Windwall

Skarner can play like a Warden, peeling off divers and assassins with his single target lockdown.

I don't think they should "transform" Skarner again... he should be reverted back to what he was supposed to be. A duelist, hybrid fighter.

Thats my opinion.

Venowolf1 votes

So in that case is aMUST chamge the vanguard in his bio profile if the reverted him to a Skirmisher... Maybe he needs a whole change in his base stats if he will be a Skirmisher because Skarner is too tanky right now to be a full Skirmisher, He definetely is not a light fighter...

I prefer him more oriented to the tank class specifically as a Vanguard. But I also enjoy play him as a Juggernaut/Skirmisher hybrid thing with tons of AD. This new buff can put him in a good position. Thats whats I hope.

Shahamut1 votes

The main reason I think just going back to concept is better, is because the Skarner mains that I have talked to love the aspect of him being a predator. It was nice, because he was also a simple predator, no stealth, no major gap closers, just speed and cc.

It also fits his lore better. He isn't guarding anything atm, he woke up, is ticked, and is on the hunt for the ones who stole his brothers' life stones. (Coming for you Jayce).

I hope RIOT makes up their mind one way or the other though. Skarner sucks right now. It hurts me to play him, but I do it all the same. :(

dreadedcape1 votes

I can see it bandaging some issues like his passive and giving skarner players something to think about with resource management but i do fear it is a simple bandage over his bigger issues keeping the gameplay the same for skarner mains all 3 of them but in general maby will be a small increase in power am not saying he needs 50 different passives on one ability but some way to better close gap then intimidating running or a cc purge would make a world of difference on the little guy. Great idea none the less <3

Shahamut4 votes

I think everyone who doesn't play Skarner has this misconception that his role is to "grab a carry and pull them into his team". In my opinion, this is dead wrong. Skarner is a pick fighter. He punishes bad positioning, sure, but he wants to stalk and catch his prey alone. In a team fight, he acts as a warden, peeling off divers and assassins. He is a single target specialist (in my opinion), a duelist, hunter, etc.

Also, Thank you :) <3

LordGeovanni1 votes

what you are saying of skarner was true.... before his last rework now the former is true as he has little to no damage to back up anything.

Shahamut1 votes

Problem is, the former is still false, because unless that carry is way out of position, Skarner has no access to the backlines excpet by flash... and then he still has to get back PAST the front line again...

Only way Skarner can "dive" is after someone else dives and parts the red sea known as the front line for him.

I mean, if you are going to define a champion by a single ability in his kit and also only define them by that ability's usefulness with a summoner spell, I think we did it wrong... :/

LordGeovanni1 votes

Skarner does not have to ult a carry. He can ult a mage to do the same thing he can ult a fighter / bruiser / juggernaut to do the same thing as long as it isnt a tank they wont survive his ult if his whole team focuses the target and if it is a tank if skarner has another tank in his team to zone he can ult the enemy tank have his tank zone and the enemy tank dies 2 seconds after he comes out of skarners ult. you then have a 4v5 and assumedly the enemy has no front line.

Shahamut1 votes

This is true, IF you built the comp around that. That being said, as far as the discourse of this particular conversation goes, the "former" specifically referred to his job as ulting a carry (be it a mage or marksman) who is likely behind their front line. As I have stated, Skarner is great for punishing bad positioining, regardless of the target, but that is more of a niche thing that his ult can do, and it is dependent on the enemy slipping up.

TLDR- Yes, Skarner can pull ANY champion who is out of position into his team for a focused kill, but that is not what was being discussed. If Skarner was supposed to ult a carry, mage or marksman, he would have to bypass the frontline, which he can't really do.

Muzét1 votes

I'm not that much a Skarner player so you might want to go on the Skarner subs. But I think he might need Max Health.

Shahamut1 votes

I have a post on the sub reddit for Skarner as well. I haven't gotten any replies there though :(

Muzét1 votes

Even Skarners mains probably gave up on talking about him. But you might get some answers within the next days.

Shahamut1 votes

I can only hope XD

GrReaper961 votes

An idea for Skarner Ult: Range is increased to 1000 If cast within 350 range, becomes a single target skill that is guaranteed to hit (same as original) If cast outside the 350 range, will become a skillshot that impales the first enemy hit If hit by the skillshot ult, while also being dragged by Skarner, it pulls them 200 units closer to him each second, up to 400 units over the full 2 sec duration. Cannot pull up closer than 350 units away from skarner

ChaddyFantome1 votes

I like the general idea, but id prefer the W change be reverted. Not only is Skarners pattern of using shields with his W for jungle sustain and movement interesting and the first thing i think of him besides his ultimate, but the change you made jere has the potential to be and feel frustrating to play against, as it will never be clear how tanky he is or isnt, as well as him essentially having a mini Volibear passive on cast with it too.

Keep his shield and charge interaction. Its unique and a core part of his kit imo.

Shahamut1 votes

Yeah, I could leave the Shield instead, he used to have sustain in his kit a while ago, so I was trying to spice it up a bit and change the shield to a healing mechanic. Either way works. Im glad this thread is getting a decent amount of attention! (at least compared to other Skarner threads Ive seen XD)

How does this look?

W: Costs Crystal Energy, same shield and ramp up speed mechanic, speed breaks with shield. If shield lasts for the duration without breaking, refund a portion of the spent energy.

BeeEmDubya1 votes

M7 Skarner main here (one of the 3 of us):

Honestly one of the simplest and most effective changes would be to make his W scale off AD instead of AP. There is honestly no reason to ever build AP on skarner so I'm not sure why they make all of his abilities scale off it. But if they at least made his W scale off AD, you'd be able to dedicate more gold to damage items while still maintaining some late-game tankiness when you activate your W.

I actually like his passive the way that it is. The crystals in the camps and river make jungle clears fast and easy. I do like your idea of doing something fun with his resource and Q management. The way that it is now is sort of gimmicky... I'd like to see the crystal energy stack, up to 4 or 5 or 6 times, and fall off one at a time so you could carry a few from the jungle into the lanes. It would give you better early ganks pre-6.

BeeEmDubya1 votes

A fun mechanic would be making his crystal energy from his Q stack, dealing additional damage per stack, and using your E would immediately expend all stacks, with the slow amount scaling based on number of stacks. Something like 10/20/30/40/50% based on number of stacks. Ranking up your E would increase the stun duration upon AA proc

Shahamut1 votes

He doesn't gain "stacks" in my version, he gains resource. He fills his resource bar.

FlameHalbrdOkido1 votes

{quoted}

He doesn't gain "stacks" in my version, he gains resource. He fills his resource bar.

I think the person was thinking like Rengars resource, also there's a way that the spires could be kept in a better way. What if they were attatched to his E so they landed at the end of its range or at the 1st unit hit?

Shahamut1 votes

In my opinion, the spires have to go. Its a terrible gimmick. Emphasis on the ICK.

Shahamut2 votes

Having his Shield scale with AD is a bad idea in my opinion. Skarner is one of the few champions left who can truly benefit from both AD and AP in a meaningful way.

His passive is a terrible gimmik, and is the reason he is trash right now. The fact that a LARGE portion of his power budget can be completely denied is just terrible design.

I dont think you read my post well. He stores crystal energy by attacking and using Q. Think of his resource as a battery, up to 100% energy stored. I was actually thinking of just keeping it at 100 points actually.

BeeEmDubya1 votes

I read your post just fine. I was amending it and making better suggestions.

BeeEmDubya1 votes

A "battery" that starts at 100% and is drained by abilities is literally just mana lol.

Shahamut1 votes

It doesn't start at 100%... sigh...

LordGeovanni1 votes

Skarner doesnt have enough damage to be classified as a juggernaut more than 1-2 months after the juggernaut update. he as it stands now is a cc tank that ults pulls and is useless until his ult again

Shahamut2 votes

RIGHT?! They had to gut all of his damage over and OVER again, first with the juggernaut changes, and then with repeated nerfs to bring him to the state he is in.

Skarner was a hybrid fighter in the day that "fighter" simply meant "melee damage dealer". BRING BACK OLD SKARNER! (Conceptually, I don't miss perma slow Q)

LordGeovanni1 votes

To be fair tanks arent tanky unless they have spam able shields so even if he were allowed to have his damage back he wouldnt be able to do anything.

Shahamut1 votes

If Skarner had his speed and damage back, I could continue to play him top lane as a duelist and split pusher. :/

LordGeovanni1 votes

thats where i played the 2 versions before his big rework.

Shahamut2 votes

I miss my kind...

Shahamut1 votes

Thanks to everyone who participated in this conversation! Looks like this thread, like Skarner, is dead.

Venowolf1 votes

I like the new resource bar. I am worried about the stun duration now that he has an wasy access to his new passive. Maybe that 1s could be to much (0.75s is more fair in this set). The whole idea is not bad at all but needs more things to put him in the "unique" department. He is similar to others champs. Maybe that crystal poiison idea is better, something more as Braum´s passive and Sejuani´s E that works on-hit on same target. in this case they can work in order to freezes or cristalize the enemy.

My real though here is some kind of new E that works with a slowly freezes on the enemy. If Skarner hit someone with his E . The affected unit slowly starts to turning into crystal statue to prevent this the unit needs to attacks or move "x" units so in this way the unit can preven frezzes. Maybe son kind of Zoe´s stun

FlameHalbrdOkido1 votes

Everything in the food for thought is true except for controlling the battle field. I doubt Skarner will ever be doing that.

I think u should add his old passive back onto what you have made his resouce: using E should places the mark, but AA's Q's and E add stacks and at 3 they get stunned. His Ult could no longer stum, but 8let him pull ANY stunned target away in addition to what u made.

P.s. this isn't my main account, I just use this to post. Ur summoner name is similar 2 mine: Shamont.

Shahamut1 votes

I mean, the controling the battlefield thing probably made more sense with his original kit, not only did you have your ult, but he used to have the "toxic" AoE Perma-Slow.

I could add the old 3 stack passive back, but I think the one good change that came out of the juggernaut rework was the mark/proc on E. Originally, he had a mark/proc for a heal that was so weak they removed it. This brought that aspect back with something more meaningful.

(For the record, I would be totally fine if they just reverted him back to pre-juggernaut Skarner. That 3 hit passive, with its interaction with his ultimate, made for some fun skill expression: Will the extra damage kill him? or should I just chain cc him for my teammate to clean up?)

Shamont, eh? Now if your name was inspired by the fantasy Dragon Bahamut, we are practically soul brothers. XD

KlydeFrog1 votes

All you need to do is undo this shtty spire rework and leave him how he was before and issue solved. I've been posting non-stop since they reworked him on this and main account gave reasons why and nope I get down voted and 0 comment from riot

Shahamut2 votes

I have asked for that repeatedly on the boards as well. If we go back to pre-juggernaut Skarner, Im a happy camper :)

KlydeFrog1 votes

umm yah there was nothing wrong with the rework since he has been reworked like 8 times lol. the one right before the spire one was perfect i bring up why and people just down votre me and say some crap on he is fine....ummm lets think on my main account i have how many games on him and there was nothing wrong with him then they reworked him inot the shtty spire version and he became weaker.....lol

Shahamut1 votes

yeah, I think its just taken people a while to realize it. And, cool thing, this is the most attention ANY skarner thread I have made has ever gotten. :)

Over 500 views (still not much I know) and 9 up votes. Maybe RIOT will see it and reply at some point, but probably not. :/

KlydeFrog1 votes

ohh trust me ive made dozens of posts on my main account and on this one, wrote supp tickets. spire is weak end of story and peoples remark is if ur in the spire ur strong as hell.......im like noob his old q did the same thing........how is anyone going to argue

Shahamut1 votes

His old Q was less powerful overall I think, but it also wasn't something you could just deny him. It also cost mana.

Much better in my opinion. Spires are free information for your enemy, a bunch of his power budget that can be completely denied by opponents, especially of behind.

It's poor design, and a poor homage to a lost game mode.

KlydeFrog1 votes

i mean before his q allowed him to aoe stun if you bought hydra, he could split push liek a boss due to once again his q, ganking was more or less teh same, hit 3 things or having to land ur e.

Shahamut1 votes

you can still multi stun with new Skarner, it just requires you hit E on multiple people, but yeah, I miss being able to stack on multiple people in a brawl. stun one, ult the other, I miss it a lot.

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