Can we revert Veigar's AP gain from landing spells?

Horse Grenades·May 19, 2016·15 votes·1,642 views

He had 2 Items in AP in an even matchup @ 21 minutes. Does it not feel OP that he gets free AP for just existing.

Maybe I'm way off base, he just seems super strong right now.

Edit: I have no problem accepting I am bad at the game, and Veigar is easilly countered. However, Veigar at 2-0 while I'm 3-1 with close to equal farm shouldn't have 120 AP on me. In my opinion that is too much free gold.

Edit2: I've seen a couple say that his E is avoidable with dashes. It definitely is not. Only blinks. Not dashes

44 Comments

MunchCrunchLunchMay 19, 20164 votes

hes one of the most immobile champions with 0 defensive abilities 2 really hard to land skillshots. and his ult is situational nuke now. he can't do anything once a tank like maokai cc him down.

Horse GrenadesMay 19, 20162 votes

I guess if you don't count a huge AoE zoning stun as defensive. lol

BeldairMay 19, 20162 votes

That cursed thing is annoying.

N3RAZIM PRA3TORMay 19, 20165 votes

here's a few tips, as a Veigar player who laughs when people actually get hit with it and i'm not casting it from a bush or similar: Don't walk into the edges. Don't walk into the edges. Don't walk into the edges. DON'T WALK INTO THE EDGES.

you have no idea how easy that is to do. i highly doubt every Veigar drops the edge right on you every time it's casted, and there's enough room in it to move around and dodge his W comfortably (and i say this having been on the receiving end multiple times), and his Q is a straight line. if you're super low, why are you chasing someone with a stun and an execute anyway? at least it isn't a point and click stun, because you're begging for him to stun you and then ult you, or W you.

if you want a proper suggestion... play a champion with a dash (e.g. Yasuo, Fiora, Graves). it doesn't stop dashes. that actually kinda irritated me when i found out.

So I've seen so many comments about it stopping dashes, so I'll quote one of my replies here:

[{quoted}](name=N3RAZIM PRA3TOR,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LL74yWd0,comment-id=000200000000000000030000,timestamp=2016-05-24T11:18:19.074+0000)

I actually played Veigar a couple of hours before that comment, and I can't count the amount of times I've died to a Fiora/Yasuo that I forgot won't get stunned by my E unless they walk into it. So unless it's a bug (and then that's on you @staff), as far as I know it will block PULLS and KNOCK BACKS (think Blitz/Tresh or Sion) as well as stuff like Vi's... whatever it is, but not DASHES that avoid terrain, basically like flash.

Spicy RiceMay 19, 20161 votes

It does though....

N3RAZIM PRA3TORMay 24, 20161 votes

See edit :)

ParoeMay 19, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=N3RAZIM PRA3TOR,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LL74yWd0,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-19T14:04:02.880+0000)

here's a few tips, as a Veigar player who laughs when people actually get hit with it and i'm not casting it from a bush or similar: Don't walk into the edges. Don't walk into the edges. Don't walk into the edges. DON'T WALK INTO THE EDGES.

you have no idea how easy that is to do. i highly doubt every Veigar drops the edge right on you every time it's casted, and there's enough room in it to move around and dodge his W comfortably (and i say this having been on the receiving end multiple times), and his Q is a straight line. if you're super low, why are you chasing someone with a stun and an execute anyway? at least it isn't a point and click stun, because you're begging for him to stun you and then ult you, or W you.

if you want a proper suggestion... play a champion with a dash (e.g. Yasuo, Fiora, Graves). it doesn't stop dashes. that actually kinda irritated me when i found out.

Indeed. i agree completely; Veigar needs clear lines of sight to do his Q harass, and he usually needs to land his E before he can W because the W delay is so long (with good reason). People complaining about veigar having 120+AP at 20 minutes from his passive alone are the ones either getting hit by all his Qs and Ws, the ones who let him free farm, or the ones who have zero positioning skills and need to start running exhaust/TP to train.

Also, veigar is a burst mage. he is THE burst mage. And AP items were nerfed across the board. the amount of AP from items is dramatically lower than before. Veigar is not a problem, nothing about him is anymore; not since his R was re-worked into an execute (a change i approve of) instead of a "haha you build AP? die with 70% of your own AP + my own!". Because hes SO immobile and flash ignite burst is so common in the mid lane (even top...), theres a very healthy amount of counterplay to him that other champions lack.

BeldairMay 19, 20162 votes

I rarely get hit by it....i usually get stuck in the middle of the ring because i was attacking him XD

Quite annoying, about as annoying as getting stuck in J4's Cataclysm.

DrCyanideMay 19, 20162 votes

if you want a proper suggestion... play a champion with a dash (e.g. Yasuo, Fiora, Graves). it doesn't stop dashes. that actually kinda irritated me when i found out.

When was the last time you played Veigar? It has stopped dashes since patch 5.6....

Blinks (such as Ezreal Kassadin Lissandra ) still can get out, but not Dashes.

N3RAZIM PRA3TORMay 24, 20161 votes

I actually played Veigar a couple of hours before that comment, and I can't count the amount of times I've died to a Fiora/Yasuo that I forgot won't get stunned by my E unless they walk into it. So unless it's a bug (and then that's on you @staff), as far as I know it will block PULLS and KNOCK BACKS (think Blitz/Tresh or Sion) as well as stuff like Vi's... whatever it is, but not DASHES that avoid terrain, basically like flash.

DrCyanideMay 24, 20161 votes

Then that sounds like a bug.

If the character instantly disappears from point A and instantly reappears at point B, they can get out. If their dash is "untargetable" (like Malphite/Vi Ult) they can also get out. Other than that, the only way they should be getting out is if they were already stunned once by it.

N3RAZIM PRA3TORMay 31, 20161 votes

idk if it's a bug or not. yesterday morning or the day before i had a poppy dash out of my E and into me without being stunned, after it was fully cast (pretty sure it was fully cast because two other players got stunned right before), and it's been like that for as long as i remember, so... i think it's on purpose, but maybe not. i mean, poppy's dash doesn't avoid terrain, but...

xl Kirito lxMay 19, 20161 votes

You can either stay inside of the box for 3s, or take a 1.5s stun. 3s isn't bad when you're just dodging Veigar's kit, but if the jungler is ganking, or if it's a Veigar support, it's effectively a 3s snare at level 1.

N3RAZIM PRA3TORMay 24, 20161 votes

But in this case I'm taking about the fact that he can literally max nothing but Event Horizon (E) and still stack a hell of a lot of AP, so... Yeah...

Horse GrenadesMay 19, 20161 votes

His event horizon definitely stops dashes..

N3RAZIM PRA3TORMay 24, 20161 votes

See edit, please OP

BeldairMay 19, 20162 votes

you wan't 0 defensive abilities then look no further than the immobile shuriman himself...Xerath.

Spicy RiceMay 19, 20161 votes

Not like he has a stun or anything

BeldairMay 19, 20161 votes

Xerath's stun is like a tickle compared to Veigar's.

Spicy RiceMay 19, 20161 votes

Is that stun and slow not defensive capability?

DrakylonMay 19, 20163 votes

Wait, people are complaining about Veigar having 100% ratios?

His only constant 100% ratio is on his W, which is a small ground-targeted AoE nuke with a 1.25 second delay. His Q has a measly 60% ratio, his E doesn't even do damage, and his ultimate is justified in having a high ratio in that it's situational (only gets to 100% ratio when the enemy's at 66%) and, well, it's an ultimate.

Friendly RamMay 19, 20162 votes

honestly either that or don't give him 1to1 ap ratios on everything.

Fondling GemsMay 19, 20162 votes

Hey.... he only has one of those consistently...

Goes back to playing veigar

Friendly RamMay 19, 20161 votes

yhyh most champs only have an ulti with one to one scaling. not a 10 sec cd aoe bomb

Meep ManMay 19, 20167 votes

Anivia Chogath Nidalee Rumble

They all have 100% AP Ratios on equally hard to land abilities. Most of them have a cool down below 10 seconds. Why can't Veigar, the Mage known entirely for his damage, not have one?

Fondling GemsMay 19, 20161 votes

Don't forget Pantheon's hops of death either. Actually pretty common now that I think about it. WW Q and Swain E as well. All 3 of those are targeted.

Friendly RamMay 19, 20161 votes

anivias needs coordination and another spell (or ashe) to pull off. rupture doesn't need all that much skill to hit rumble's flamespitter is a big cone which you need to stand in to fight him nid is a small skillshot that can be intercepted by minions. not saying it's bad i just dislike the veigar who rushes a noob cap item 3089 and owns lane with one item. but yeah i forgot about some champions my bad.

Big LincolnMay 19, 20164 votes

veigar needs another spell to land his W if you aren't retarded though

EmbertineMay 19, 20162 votes

To me he still gains AP at the same rate as when he had to kill minions to get it.

I know that since he has to hit people with spells that Veigar players have become more agressive, thus allowing them to get AP a little faster, but I've still yet to reach the one thousand AP mark that I used to be able to get with old Veigar.

New one mostly just has a simple easier way to gain AP, however to me it just doesn't sky rocket like the old one did.

AazzlanoMay 19, 20161 votes

wat? I get 1k - 1.2k AP regularly. It's not really that difficult. Though I'm not saying he is OP, he has clear weaknesses.

Lady HammerlockMay 19, 20162 votes

It isn't broken at all actually,and his old passive was really...uninteractive to say the least

Ironically he gains AP slower with kills and the same equal rate with minion killing,landing skill shots isn't the easiest considering late game's any gives moment your getting a maximum of 6 AP from a target,3 AP from E+W+R and the kill you'll get

its fully compensated by the fact that the amount of AP given by AP items as a whole have been reduced by a fair margin

The Bearded BardMay 19, 20162 votes

Ayy short range squishy burst mage with no escapes and all skillshots except his single target ult.

Communist ToastMay 19, 20162 votes

Veigar has always been a strong champ, or one that starts weak but scales greatly. just like many other champs.

considering 1 of his abilities are almost impossible to land unless stunned/rooted. I wouldn't say he is "very" strong. I mean he will 100-0 you if you get caught, but that's his nature

not to mention many champs can easily get out of his cage

FourVsFiveMay 19, 20161 votes

Then you got the Inferno dragon buff on top of that oh boy.

xl Kirito lxMay 19, 20161 votes

He was already strong before the buffs. Now they made his kit less conditional. Not entirely sure what people were expecting to happen here.

Going to be interesting how long it takes for Veigar support to become mainstream.

N3RAZIM PRA3TORMay 19, 20161 votes

~~plays veigar support often already~~ i don't know why you'd think so (whistles)

Dunkrius2gMay 19, 20161 votes

Riot shouldve removed at least 10% ap ratio on some of his abilities to compensate such a passive.

Spicy RiceMay 19, 20161 votes

Right, let's punish veigar for needing buffs by buffing him, and nerfing him at the same time so absolutely nothing changes

Dunkrius2gMay 19, 20161 votes

The reason why people stopped playing him is because it took a while to get a lot of AP cuz matches end very quickly. Now that he can stack easier and his ultimate is stronger than ever, the only thing that will get him nerf ed at this point is if he gets more playrate and more winrate. It's inevitable either way.

OleandervineMay 19, 20161 votes

I don't know, he definitely needs some kind of tuning. It's gotten to the point in almost every game I see him in that he can insta-delete squishies with one shot, and to me, that's not very good for the game.