One sided games and intentional feeding grows exponentially as you approach Diamond V

Yenn·Sep 20, 2017·24 votes·3,866 views

I stopped playing for a while and decayed from Diamond IV to Gold I, and my MMR when I returned was around Gold III because of inflation. The players at Gold III were SIGNIFICANTLY better, on average, than the players I'm getting around Platinum II MMR.

Every single game is a complete stomp for one side, because one or more players are playing so badly that it's indistinguishable from intentional feeding, or someone is trolling because they're auto-filled.

See this auto-filled support TF I just encountered, as an example. This is a regular occurrence. Sometimes it's intentional, sometimes it's not. https://i.imgur.com/TkCDSzh.jpg

I was Diamond in S3, Diamond I in S4, and Diamond I in S5. In S6, I waited until the end of the season to play post-decay, and I absolutely could not get past Diamond V because of this exact problem. It's now S7 and the issue has gotten much worse. I can barely even get back to Diamond V, because games are essentially over before they start.

Is anything being done to deal with this before the next season begins? It's really fucking sad that a blind eye has been turned to this, with virtually every Diamond player complaining about it.

77 Comments

Hèntaî Sep 20, 20176 votes

How in the heck did tf die 16 times in a 20 minute game?

YennSep 20, 20174 votes

{quoted}

How in the heck did tf die 16 times in a 20 minute game?

He was trolling because he was auto-filled, but not in any way that would get him banned for intentional feeding.

GayFluffyUnicornSep 20, 20172 votes

Riot doesn#t care hoenstly. As hard as it is to admit it because i used to be an honorable player with no punishments i've gotten two leaverbusters in one week and i was ready to get atleast a non permban but nothing happened except for one chatrestriction (seriously diamond brings the worst out of me. Especially because i believe this matchmaking is rigged. 9th attempt in d3 promos and 9 times lost them in the most horrible imagineable ways) Legit afking a few games does absolutely jackshit. If you want to troll your team just splitpush without actually splitpushing, nothing can be done to you.

JJI744Sep 21, 20171 votes

If they are at a death per 2 minutes, go ahead and report for inting. I think Riot understands that barring some extream circumstances, you have to be trying to die that much. I mean your Rene clearly got curbstompped on didn't a death every 2 minutes.

Jayce TopSep 20, 20174 votes

As a Plat 1 player that just started playing on my smurf two days ago, I can confirm I have seen better players in silver and gold than plat/Diamond.

For some reason Silver/Gold players know how to bait when youre ganking their lane. While a Plat/Diamond player will straight up all in the enemy pushing the lane to their tower when you ping youre about to gank their lane.

Also I find a lot more silver/gold players buying control wards and warding in general. The vision is so good in low elo, I love it so much especially being a top laner. Hell even bot lane knows to ward the deep brush so i can tp on it when they get ganked or the enemy pushes which plat/diamond sometimes do but most of the time i have to tell them to do it.

Cons In Low Elo

Feeders, yes there are feeders here too, but not as much in plat.
Smurfs. About every 3 games there is a smurf on your team or the enemies.
People dont listen. "Stop diving". Dives
People think theyre challenger tier players because theyre silver/gold and will refuse to listen to you because they have 800 games in silver/gold. They also watch LCS which they think makes them know more than anyone else.
Lots of afkers. Lots of low elo players are low elo simply because they have bad internet, or a bad computer. Thus they get dcd and throw games.

Cons in Plat/Diamond Elo

Feeders. "I got auto filled, so im trolling"
Tilt. So many kids tilt in this elo, if you tell them to ward a simple brush they cry and complain.
Autofill. Autofill determines sooooo many games in this elo. "Im not good at adc, can anyone trade" = 99% chance of losing.
Snowballing is so much harder to come back from. And if you do end up waiting it out to comeback, youre looking at a 40-60 minute long game which isnt even worth playing.
LP is trash. In low elo if you have good mmr, you can get 25-32 LP a win. In Plat/Diamond if you have good mmr you get 17-21 LP per win.

Ben SharpioSep 20, 20177 votes

silver is NOTHING like plat get that idea out of your head.

GayFluffyUnicornSep 20, 20174 votes

I also can't follow this despite supporting the initial thread. First it's way harder to solo carry against diamond players. Whatever others may tell you diamond players are not the monkeys reddit wants you to believe there is a reason basically everyone plays duo q if he wants to get to master/challenger. The other truth is that diamond indeed is full of boosted players, autofill and the regular tilt that makes it so impossible to consistently solo carry through it. But even plat players shit on silver left and right. What i noticed tho is that gold is the most enjoyable place to play in. When i duo with a gold friend of mine i legit have so much fun in this elo. People are okay at the game listen way more to advice or follow someone (me) making the calls. It only gets bad when some boosted plat who is now playing in gold 4 mmr is in your game.

ChiTenshiSep 20, 201716 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jayce Top,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LIu87JO3,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2017-09-20T08:48:00.660+0000)

As a Plat 1 player that just started playing on my smurf two days ago, I can confirm I have seen better players in silver and gold than plat/Diamond.

Cons In Low Elo 2. Smurfs. About every 3 games there is a smurf on your team or the enemies.

Internal screaming

Yxgl222HaXSep 20, 20171 votes

not necessarily smurfs so much as boosters. Any time i get to a non middle tier rank division i have this problem. In the upper elos of a ranking its people who where boosted, but started dropping immideatly after and are complete garbage ( i had a "plat 3" ryze top go 1-12 with 45 cs at 20 to a gold 3 renek top) and most people who do boost just go to rank V for the devision ranking. So for example gold 5 was alot harder for me to win in than gold 3-2 was simply because there where alot of people there who would pass for silver 5 on a good day mixed with people who worked hard to climb and made the match very off balance. People boost to higher ranks thinking theyre just stuck in elo hell and that they are easily good enough for a higher rank when no, theyre not. In my experience divison 5 and 1 are nightmares. Just people who are on tilt and dropping or people who are currently boosting way above where they should be.

ChiTenshiSep 20, 20177 votes

I hate every player that selfishly destroys other players matches and negatively affects the matchmaking system. I don't care if it's through boosting, smurfing (In Ranked), trolling, etc, I hate it.

Saying boosting is worse makes me roll my eyes. To me, it makes you look like a player who also smurfs and wants to justify their actions are not bad by pointing out a 'worse' issue. They're both in the wrong and I view them equally as bad.

If players stopped smurfing, boosting, etc, the system would work significantly better and Riot can use their resources elsewhere.

Yxgl222HaXSep 21, 20171 votes

tbh i smurf because i have to in order to play with my friends. I am currently plat and only one of my irl friends are ranked gold are higher. The rest are low silver and bronze. With how ranked works i literally cant que up with anyone lower than gold. Hence my smurf. And when i do smurf i still make them do the work by just playing utility supports and make them actually work for the lp gains instead of handing it to them by playing a mid laner or adc or carry oriented junglers. Its a whole diffrent beast. im not smurfing for the sake of smurfing on its own. theres no point not having runes and crap is annoying.

ChiTenshiSep 21, 20171 votes

Can't you just play Blind/Draft Mode with your friends?

Yxgl222HaXSep 21, 20171 votes

Not really. you physically can but it makes the matching a clusterfk. you get like p3 mids vs bronze 4 mids, gold v gold jungle gold-d4 top vs bronze/silver ect. Makes the games really more of a pain in the butt than theyre worth with mis matched as fk lanes. Even if i do win my lane vs a bronze-gold player then mid gets dumpstered by a p5+ player on their main in normals. its not fun at all. The whole point in normals is to have fun. cant do that with half the team fed, half so far behind theyre useless and the same for the enemy team. Better to just have everyone mostly the same skill level

ChiTenshiSep 21, 20171 votes

I feel conflicted. What seems more morally correct:

To play with friends using a Smurf account due to the poor matchmaking conditions of other game-modes.
To play with friends on Blind/Draft and hope Riot improves the matchmaking conditions.

Apologies to Riot, but I've never seen much progress with regards to matchmaking in the other game modes

Option 1 is fine but only to play with friends.

TruelyTrueTruethSep 21, 20171 votes

i feel like i've played with you before

just OK junglerSep 21, 20171 votes

Also have to consider the competition, a diamond play might get dumbstered by another diamond player, but thats diamond, its hard to dumbster other players, for example Camille gets early flash from Renekton with help from jungler, Camille gets solokilled, does that mean Camille is trash? No, its a counter pick, and she just naturally loses. Thats a game I had a few days ago. Another example, Nasus kills rumble repeatedly in silver, Nasus becomes unstoppable and 1v5 and wins the game, I played that on my smurf. You could say this silver nasus is better than this diamond camille, BUT the nasus is playing with apes who cant position and get 1shot by him, while camille is playing with a smart renekton who understands the game, so yeah

no mechanics apeSep 20, 20174 votes

It's also great how in diamond 5, the combination of boosted animals, autofilled monkeys, and players that just don't care/are entirely willing to troll over petty stuff ("hey gangplank, please ward pixel" "don't tell me what to do im afk") it's just a clown fiesta that shouldn't exist because of player behavior combined with autofill.

YennSep 20, 20173 votes

I just had a game where the enemy Yasuo was 6-1-3 around 10 minutes. He kept roaming and getting kills on low health champions who didn't pay attention.

His roams were spam pinged 5-6 times by myself and the jungle, and both top and bottom completely ignored them. There was a good 10-15 seconds between the time we called that Yasuo was coming and pinged for them to retreat, and the time he reached the lane.

This is really unacceptable. These players are significantly worse than they should be.

Ariel the CruelSep 20, 20173 votes

Stray thought: Diamond is the top 2% of the [ranked] player base. The further down the funnel you go, the harder it becomes for the system to create the perfectly balanced match.

Throw in confirmation bias and/or law of large numbers. I can see this happening.

YennSep 20, 20172 votes

Singed was 0-6-1 at 15 minutes. He kept trying to all-in Jax, and he failed every time, but continued to repeat it. Jax was so ridiculously fed that we couldn't even gank him, and it required 3 of us to stop him from pushing.

This shouldn't be happening in almost every single game.

https://i.imgur.com/siE0952.jpg

PiVoRxSep 20, 20172 votes

I think theres no easy solution to D5, its dumpster filled with boosts, feeders, trolls and "i dot care, im Diamond" players (me). I spend whole previous seasson being hardstuck in D5 and this one i just play once per month for seasson rewards cause i lost any faith.

In order to fix this elo, Riot would have to spend shitload of resources to fulsh it from boosts, drag people who dont deserve it down and fix game balance so you can play something more than strict meta champions to be successfull.

Many high/pro level players agreed that this is worst elo in LoL to be in, you either have to be way beyond with skill to get through it or be extremly luckly to dodge all the shit that happens here.

Ben SharpioSep 20, 20172 votes

i found it really weird that once i reached diamond 5 after a ridiculous winstreak that i was gaining 15 and losing 20 LP. D5 is an actual nightmare of a division i don't even want to go back. Plat 2-1 is just infested with D5 0 LP players. And this entire season was a coin flip

GayFluffyUnicornSep 20, 20171 votes

That's the hidden MMR penalty you suffer in diamond. Somehow riot doesn't think they should mention this. As soon as you enter diamond your MMR takes a huge hit and you need a couple of games to get good LP gains again. Unless ofc you already have inflated D3+ MMR when you enter diamond then you are guaranteed to get there. Rn i'm getting 20 lp in d4 which is actually very good but give me one or two loss and i'm back at 15 lp lul. It just makes it artifically hard to climb in this elo.

Enraged PigletSep 20, 20171 votes

I mean from diamond 5 onward it's hard because each rank has a lot less players then the previous rank. So like dia 5 through challaneger has like top 2% of players and diamond 5 has like 1.5% of that and then diamond 4 has a huge portion of the remaining and it keeps going so that sense everyone is kinda funneling in at the top you will lose more lp then you gain and you have to raise your mmr to compete with the people who have been there a long time and already have high mmr.

high elo is pretty much a fight between the top players in getting the even higher spots. You lose more lp then you gain unless you get high mmr but everyone else there is also fighting in the same way and only the best can break through to higher ranks.

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/rank-distribution/na

YennSep 20, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Enraged Piglet,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LIu87JO3,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2017-09-20T22:52:12.302+0000)

I mean from diamond 5 onward it's hard because each rank has a lot less players then the previous rank. So like dia 5 through challaneger has like top 2% of players and diamond 5 has like 1.5% of that and then diamond 4 has a huge portion of the remaining and it keeps going so that sense everyone is kinda funneling in at the top you will lose more lp then you gain and you have to raise your mmr to compete with the people who have been there a long time and already have high mmr.

high elo is pretty much a fight between the top players in getting the even higher spots. You lose more lp then you gain unless you get high mmr but everyone else there is also fighting in the same way and only the best can break through to higher ranks.

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/rank-distribution/na

This is absolutely not true and has nothing to do with the actual problem, which is that a large number of players at Diamond V are worse at the game than most players in Silver.

KovorixSep 20, 20171 votes

What i noticed is that in high Plat are alot of one tricks and as soons as they can't play this one champion because it is picked/banned or whatever the player is completly overwhelmed and doesn't know what to do in the game.

GayFluffyUnicornSep 20, 20172 votes

I legit hate onetricks. Because most otps play shit like riven and darius where they rely on having to snowball or become useless and these guys have no sense of macro or objective play despite being high plat-mid diamond. All they can do is stomp lane and walk into the enemy 1v5 if that doesn't work they throw a tantrum and the game. Community is at fault as well tho. One game on my first climb out of d5 we had a (old) urgot otp in toplane and the entire team was flaming him in champselect, i was the only one who said "i rather trust him than some metawhore abusing champs he doesn't know". Boom he solo carried the game and even 1v2 killed riven and lee sin. did some awesome tp plays and ganks in midlane in which i played. If more of these OTPs exist bring em on.

scribbles782Sep 20, 20171 votes

I think the problem is boosting. These bronze players are paying good money to get into diamond and then feed their asses off back to bronze. It's sad really.

GayFluffyUnicornSep 20, 20175 votes

People won't believe me this. Whenever i look someone up there is atleast one player with a fresh s7 diamond account with one or two champs with 60-80% winrate in a couple of games and every other champ below 50% and that person never plays those high WR champs.

Ginger976Sep 20, 20171 votes

Guess what? Every other player in your range has to deal with the same thing you do. Congrats, now you're on a level playing field with everyone else. Not saying it's not a problem, it's just not a reason you aren't climbing.

AazzlanoSep 20, 20172 votes

No. You don't know what it's like in D5. It is BY FAR the worst elo and climbing is ALMOST 0% skill reliant. It's just which team gets more boosted players or which team has more trolls. One in maybe 15-20 games is actually a legitimate good game.

Seriously if you experienced it yourself you would understand. Low elo players ALWAYS act like people are overreacting about D5 because they don't know the reality. If you ever get up to Plat 1/D5, you will understand it's just as bad, if not worse than people claim it is.

Ginger976Sep 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

No. You don't know what it's like in D5. It is BY FAR the worst elo and climbing is ALMOST 0% skill reliant. It's just which team gets more boosted players or which team has more trolls. One in maybe 15-20 games is actually a legitimate good game.

Seriously if you experienced it yourself you would understand. Low elo players ALWAYS act like people are overreacting about D5 because they don't know the reality. If you ever get up to Plat 1/D5, you will understand it's just as bad, if not worse than people claim it is.

You don't seem to understand my thought. You're 100% right, I have zero idea what it's actually like. What I am saying is that in that elo EVERY PLAYER HAS TO DEAL WITH THE SAME THING. So yes, its super frustrating, but don't blame an inability to climb on the environment as every player in that elo has to navigate it. Make sense?

AazzlanoSep 21, 20171 votes

Yeah everyone having to navigate it does not mean that it is his fault he cannot climb. It's nearly impossible to solo climb out of D5 without being Master/Challenger level or without having a streak of good luck to get you out. It's way too luck based. So yeah other people have the same problem but so what? They are stuck too.

Ginger976Sep 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Yeah everyone having to navigate it does not mean that it is his fault he cannot climb. It's nearly impossible to solo climb out of D5 without being Master/Challenger level or without having a streak of good luck to get you out. It's way too luck based. So yeah other people have the same problem but so what? They are stuck too.

I simply cannot understand how people are unable to grasp this simple concept. So let's use your example of "needing to be Master/Challenger" level to get out. OK, so what? EVERYONE IS HELD TO THAT SAME STANDARD. Which makes where you are placed fair. I would use an analogy involving professional sports, but I am sure nobody here would understand it, so I won't bother.

AazzlanoSep 21, 20171 votes

Literally what does it matter if everyone is held back? I don't think you understand that this problem really only exists at this elo. You have never experienced it, that is the ONLY reason why you are saying what you are saying. It's not fair at all playing at this elo. You can be a D2-D1 player and never get out of Plat1/Diamond 5. But if you were magically placed in D4, you would climb instantly to D2-D1. That's how it is. D5 is a huge hurdle for no reason and it's mostly luck based to get out.

Ginger976Sep 22, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Literally what does it matter if everyone is held back? I don't think you understand that this problem really only exists at this elo. You have never experienced it, that is the ONLY reason why you are saying what you are saying. It's not fair at all playing at this elo. You can be a D2-D1 player and never get out of Plat1/Diamond 5. But if you were magically placed in D4, you would climb instantly to D2-D1. That's how it is. D5 is a huge hurdle for no reason and it's mostly luck based to get out.

The problem that you're describing exists at EVERY elo. You saying "its luck to climb in this ELO! Teammates are bad, the queue system is messed up, I'm better than this but I'm getting held back" is the war cry of every frustrated player from D1 to B5. I can see that you don't understand the concept I'm trying to educate you on, so I'll stop trying. Good luck with your climbing.

AazzlanoSep 22, 20171 votes

No, lol this doesn't exist in other elos. There is a reason every high elo player say D5 is the worst. It isn't some kind of coincidence. and lol "educate me" xD

If you are better you can win 90% of games in lower elos. Hell even in P2, or D4 you can win 90% of games if you are better. It's just P1/D5 elo.

If you ever get there, you will understand. If you do

FrightningSep 26, 20172 votes

{quoted}

No, lol this doesn't exist in other elos. There is a reason every high elo player say D5 is the worst. It isn't some kind of coincidence. and lol "educate me" xD

If you are better you can win 90% of games in lower elos. Hell even in P2, or D4 you can win 90% of games if you are better. It's just P1/D5 elo.

If you ever get there, you will understand. If you do

Basically, because of the nature of D5/plat1, most of your success is functionally RNG based and not a consequence of your skill. So the only way through is to play a lot, and (it would seem that) it's an awful experience for people that belong in higher elos.

AazzlanoSep 26, 20171 votes

yeah it's really bad. even if you are bad you will can a similar winrate to someone who is really good just based on the nature of this elo

sad :(

Ginger976Sep 27, 20171 votes

{quoted}

No, lol this doesn't exist in other elos. There is a reason every high elo player say D5 is the worst. It isn't some kind of coincidence. and lol "educate me" xD

If you are better you can win 90% of games in lower elos. Hell even in P2, or D4 you can win 90% of games if you are better. It's just P1/D5 elo.

If you ever get there, you will understand. If you do

I don't think I will ever get there, to be honest. Been playing since 2009 and I've only ever hit mid-Gold at my highest. I honestly don't understand why this concept is so hard to understand. I'm not saying that the dynamics aren't different, I'm saying that no matter what Elo you're in, you experience the same thing as your peers in that Elo. Therefore your ability to win and raise your Elo is constrained by the exact same things as everyone else, so the only variable is skill.

YennSep 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You don't seem to understand my thought. You're 100% right, I have zero idea what it's actually like. What I am saying is that in that elo EVERY PLAYER HAS TO DEAL WITH THE SAME THING. So yes, its super frustrating, but don't blame an inability to climb on the environment as every player in that elo has to navigate it. Make sense?

No, it doesn't make sense, because you don't understand how the game works. Being good, you have a statistically higher chance that might even out if you play 1000 games, but nobody is realistically going to do that, nor should they have to.

What you're saying would hold true if the game were skill-based and every champion is on even ground and has potential to out-play every other champion, which is absolutely not the case. More often, it comes down to numbers, and many champions are ineffective against other champions. Once the 10-0 ADC starts two shotting me before I can even unload my kit, or the 10-0 Darius at top lane ghosts into my long range caster, skill becomes irrelevant.

There's also the issue of having to build against the enemy team; if I'm mid lane against Zed and I'm winning, but the enemy team has two massively fed tanks, the game is only going to last long enough for me to counter one of them. If I build Liandry, Zed is going to reach a power spike and his all-in will guarantee a kill on me. If I build Hourglass, I'm not going to be able to deal with the tanks. The game doesn't last long enough for me to get both.

You either get extremely lucky, play thousands of games for the statistics to even out in your favor, or you duo queue. None of these are okay solutions.

Ginger976Sep 21, 20171 votes

{quoted}

No, it doesn't make sense, because you don't understand how the game works. Being good, you have a statistically higher chance that might even out if you play 1000 games, but nobody is realistically going to do that, nor should they have to.

What you're saying would hold true if the game were skill-based and every champion is on even ground and has potential to out-play every other champion, which is absolutely not the case. More often, it comes down to numbers, and many champions are ineffective against other champions. Once the 10-0 ADC starts two shotting me before I can even unload my kit, or the 10-0 Darius at top lane ghosts into my long range caster, skill becomes irrelevant.

There's also the issue of having to build against the enemy team; if I'm mid lane against Zed and I'm winning, but the enemy team has two massively fed tanks, the game is only going to last long enough for me to counter one of them. If I build Liandry, Zed is going to reach a power spike and his all-in will guarantee a kill on me. If I build Hourglass, I'm not going to be able to deal with the tanks. The game doesn't last long enough for me to get both.

You either get extremely lucky, play thousands of games for the statistics to even out in your favor, or you duo queue. None of these are okay solutions.

Actually, it's not thousands of games. And you seem to be unable to grasp the concept I am talking about as you go back and forth between talking about thousands of games and then referencing single instances. To use your own words....So there's a 10-0 ADC on the enemy team two-shotting you? Ok, you will probably have the equivalent on your team soon (or did already). The point is that you're confusing emotions with logic, and logic always wins arguments that are based around data. Does it FEEL unfair? Absolutely, I'm sure. Is it? No.

VallalanSep 21, 20171 votes

eh plat 2- d5 is just the true elo hell of league for everyone if you aren't good enough to be d4 or better.

thats lal there is to it.

players are good enough to snowball their leads to shit and dont dick around. they close out games. there are still some throws but they are few and far between. usually dying twice in lane to anyone is gg for that lane and if your jungle is incompetent its gg even if all 3 lanes win usually becuase your jungler will be out pressured, lose all objectives and you get shit on.

that said just keep grinding. if you deserve to climb out to d5 you will. its annoying that the games are pub stompy once you hit high plat, but thats just part of the game. i tilt sometimes too. take a break.

YennSep 22, 20171 votes

I just had a 1-8 Warwick build Warrior (what the fuck?) and miss every single ult, while a Vlad somehow went 0-4-0 to Lux at mid lane without being ganked once. Really great season.

YennSep 22, 20171 votes

https://i.imgur.com/uixgM4U.jpg

Auto-filled ADC on our team. It couldn't position and basically didn't auto attack.

The only reason the game wasn't over was because I kept roaming to help them, but the Kog was so fed that he could just turret down our entire team, while Ori + Jarvan flash on top of me.

This is not fun.

YennSep 22, 20171 votes

First time Elise feeds the shit out of enemy Draven. He was so fed that he was healing about 1/4 of his max health per auto. He literally just turreted down our entire team, as is usual in games with a fed ADC.

This is stupid.

PoskeSep 22, 20171 votes

Well there is probably higher percentage of boosted players in NA

Given that in america everyone speaks english compared to Europe

YennSep 26, 20171 votes

Entire team is feeding and our Jarvan has ulted the rest of our team on top of the enemy Karthus for full duration, not once, but twice.

https://i.imgur.com/EZ4bfeh.jpg

This is really fucking stupid.

YennSep 26, 20171 votes

ADC is mechanically retarded. Thresh is equally retarded, and keeps forcing fights while they're behind. He eventually started roaming and fed top and mid. Poppy threw a 4 kill lead with a series of successive dives through two turrets, as the enemy team collapsed on her each time.

This is my 5th consecutive loss and I cannot do a single fucking thing about this.

https://i.imgur.com/OSpbC3i.jpg

YennSep 26, 20171 votes

Duo queue just forced ADC to go jungle and proceeded to go 0-8. This is fucking amazing.