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What would you guys like to see for a Shen rework?

Stacona··3 votes·649 views

The only unique thing Shen has going for him is Ninja Tank. So keep this theme in mind and give your thoughts of what you like to see for Shen; anything goes as far as ideas go.

I am going to list his majour flaws:

  1. No good way to get farm in the early game so he can scale into late game without straight up losing the game
  2. His ultimate basically sacrifices top lane because he has to abandon it, thus losing the game
  3. He has absolutely no waveclear, Warwick has better waveclear and he is basically has as much non-existent waveclear as Shen. Waveclear is an important factor so he can push out a wave to group with his team. Even if he is suppose to be a split pushing tank, he has no threat here if he cannot clear waves to kill minions
  4. His crowd control is terrible, especially for a tank, engage also does not exist and his peel sucks; not to mention his ultimate being a teleport means he has a super long delay when he shows up
  5. Split pushing tank identity is a horrible identity on many levels; not to mention split pushing is more-ways-than-not a very toxic mechanic for the game as a whole --- split sieging on the other hand is different since it is a real strategic decision and a way to try to break the inhibitor turret wall against one powerful waveclear source the enemy has and forces the enemy to waveclear the main force while the split sieger will chip away at a side turret until he gets it down.

Let's see what you guys can come up with for Shen to fix him to be more enjoyable to play as, play against, and play with. Think of drastic changes if you have to, don't be shy.

11 Comments

Pæan2 votes

I really want his E to have an effect on allies somehow.
Mentioned this in another shen thread but if his Taunt-E could ever pull allies with him the distance, seeing as Shen is more of a bodyguard type tank in my eyes it would be awesome for him to pull the ally kog'maw over baron wall to safety.
Give that Q some interested gameplay, as of now I just toss my Q at the enemy laner off CD unless i need the passive to regen after a trade. W seems pretty darn useless considering less than 1% (guessing) shen players build AP.

Stacona1 votes

I was thinking Q and W be the most likely candidates to need new spells or greatly changed spells

Shadow Dash (E) as cool as it may be to safe an ally like a firefighter, it may be either too strong and very trolly - because the thing about things like Thresh lantern is that it is the player's choise to click it or not - whereas Shen forcing a player to ride with him may not be the best design choice because sure you are suppose to work together with your team, but solo queue happens and your shen can easily just intentionally or unintentionally suicide your kog maw forcefully

so yes saving an ally with shadow dash would be cool - but not so much a very good practical in-game gameplay standpoint - only way we can make this work is basically by giving shen a thresh lantern; which i think is a tool too unique and defined by thresh to give to anyone else since it will massively take away thresh's uniqueness

ItsStout1 votes

Your point are lousy to be honest, no offense. Point 4 is the one I agree with here though, in some ways. After using his Taunt, Shen's usefullness dips into nonexistance, even with his passive. I'd personally prefer if he didn't have a taunt, as I think only Galio (even when he gets reworked) should keep it.

Shen's Ultimate and Passive seem to be his core and defining skills, besides his taunt (which again, I don't like). The only changes I see here is to make the shield his ally recieves be based on Shen's max HP and to attach a slow to his passive.

My idea for Shen's Q is to make it a sweep kick, with a AOE short eange knockup/back ala Maokai Q. This provides him some dualing and CC power. I think his W should be changed to scale of his max HP (and recive a name change), and his E could be changed into a snare or a stun.

While this leaves Shen with weaknesses (no ranged harass, no sustain) it aldo makes him a great dualist and increases his relevance in late game teamfights.

Stacona1 votes

Round house kick does not really fit Shen, he uses swords so we can keep alongside this at least--- so something like he slices the area in front of him to deal damage and slow struck enemies and not like there is problems with his taunt, just the fact that as a tank it is his only cc so tanks need utility aspects to be useful otherwise they are useless and as a damage champion shen is trash you should have just picked irelia or jax then

Here is a brief value of some ideas i have:

Passive- think more of a hybrid of current passive and Q, it would grant range harass and dueling, but more so every so often he throws a sword to deal magic damage instead of physical damage and most importantly is a short range basic attack for the most part so he can participate in siege scenarios whether with his team or by himself

Q- he slices the area in front of him, low reach but is an AoE skill that deals damage and slows struck enemies

W- he grants himself a shield (has AP and max or bonus health scaling) and if the shield does not break when the shield duration ends then Shen slices the area around him in a small area to deal magic damage and briefly stun struck enemies

E- basically the same thing; a dash that deals some magic damage, grant himself damage reduction, and taunt struck enemies

R- Almost give this a teleport treatment - so still shield allies upon cast and after the channel ends he teleports to them--- new things would be he can teleport and shield ally turrets which will have a slightly lower cooldown than ulting an ally champion; also if he finishes his channel and teleports (to anything) he gains a large amount of movement speed for a short duration when moving towards an enemy champion this right here should help with his saving his lane or an ally's lane and help with his lack of engage issues with an offensive only movement speed buff when he ults and encourage the spell to coordinate with your team to use shen offensively rather than defensively forgot to mention that this shield will also have either a max health or bonus health ratio added on as well

ItsStout1 votes

Not a roundhouse kick, a sweep, an attack aimed at the legs of the opponent to make them fall over. I'd imagine that, being a martial artist of some sort, Shen would use such a defensive technique.

Stacona1 votes

i look at shen and think 'ninja that uses swords' and not so much martial artes like akali

SuperJediNinja1 votes

His ult is a problem

Stacona1 votes

Yes, it is - but he has a lot more problems than just that; Shen almost needs to be redone from the ground up - we do have a solid foundation to build Shen off of however Shen does not have interesting gameplay currently and no iconic features neither - like face roll Sona, mindless Ryze, Anivia's basically everything about her, Karthus skittles, Gangplank's oranges, Sion the unstoppable juggernaut, etc. but all Shen is is a basic attack tank that can dash to intimidate people and ult on a teammate across the map there is nothing iconic or interesting to this and nothing that says "play me, play me, i am super fun and provide an unique role that only i, Shen, can perform!" when in fact many others can do shen's job and better too

TheLastBaron881 votes

One of Shen's biggest issues is honestly his total lack of damage. He taunts you, and then you just ignore him and kill his friends while he is pretty much powerless to do anything else.

I would say make his Q a powerful zoning tool in lane. Increase the cooldown if you need to, but give it %maxHP damage on-hit when Shen attacks targets that are marked with Vorpal Blade. Keep the healing on it so that Shen benefits heavily from extended trades, but only has meaningful damage to marked targets. Not sure what to make the scalings, but maybe give it a good AP scaling and lesser hp scaling, since virtually no Shen builds AP but all of them build hp.

W could do with some kind of change. Something to make it more interesting than just "push w for shield". It's essential to his identity that he have this on-demand shield, but it really should interact with the rest of his kit or his enemies somehow. It's currently way too easy to just ignore him while he's shielded.

E is fine, one of the better CCs in the game if you can utilize it properly, as I understand it. You could add some sort of dodge mechanic onto it I guess, so that he isn't hit by autos while dashing? He is a ninja after all.

I actually do have a really good idea for his ultimate, imo. It's good from across the map, and is the reason split push Shen is a thing. Very strong strategy for forcing 5v4s. On the flip side, it is MUCH less useful for Shen to actually be with his team currently, and that seems like an odd thing to punish for a tank design. The channel is fairly long and easily interrupted, so you are locked in place just to give a shield to a nearby teammate, which is something even a karma or janna can do at that point, and on a lower cooldown too.

I think it would be neat if instead of his current instant port across the map (after a long channel) which grants a free global shield even before he arrives (which gives no counterplay for aggressive bot laners attempting a dive), he should instead have a brief channel before dashing to his target Reksai-style, granting the shield on arrival. Factoring in travel time, this would still make it possible for good players to shield teammates across the map for clutch plays, while also making it a more effective ability if Shen is close to his target. To further reward smart positioning and allow Shen to better fill his role as a tank, you could also give his ultimate a knock-aside during the dash, similar to Vi ultimate. Doesn't necessarily need to deal damage, just an extra nicety for mixing it up in teamfights, if he's taunted his way through the back line.

Lastly, you could give Ki Strike, his passive, a better scaling. As it stands, it's not very noticeable imo. Maybe give it an additional AP ratio on top of the hp ratio? You just don't see any AP Shens these days, and I don't see it being a terrible idea to make it more viable.

Basically what I see Shen as is a Duelist Tank, with good damage and sustain in 1v1s (low burst but good overall long-term damage and survivability), and solid cc and supportive abilities for teamfights and skirmishes, and I think these changes would actually make him good at it, instead of just being the splitpush guy with a shield that comes off cooldown once every 3 minutes.

Stacona1 votes

suppose to damage - it would better to reduce his damage further to give him more utility like offensive movement speed if he finishes channeling his ult and slows and stuns added on in his kit outside of his taunt so he can be a threat without significant damage as a tank

The duelist tank factor is a bad approach for the game, because it means when behind Shen is useless and when ahead he is oppressive and unstoppable; this is the problem Shen has because this is his current identity so a better approach would be set up a way where he can clear waves and split siege so someone has to deal with him without giving him big ways to duel or push tower fast, but he can push minion waves in and siege towers spread the enemy thin and then he can ult with his team to fight a 5v4; i am trying to stay away from the anti-fun split push dueling identity because this is a majour flaw--- so instead of abandoning his team give him less damage but waveclear and cc so that he can push out waves and then group with his team so that a shen comp entails threatening multiple things at once and trying to spread the enemy thin rather than have a poor gameplay identity that is not fun to go against because either Shen will be ahead and oppressive or behind and completely useless and ignored

taunted units deal less damage by a %

Shahamut1 votes

Honestly, I would like to see more power in Shen's kit. As long as he has global ultimate though, I dont think it will happen. :(

That being said, I would like to see more "ninja" in his kit, (in the form of mobility and/or stealth) and something that goes along with his title "The Eye of Twilight".

I had an idea a while back that didn't get much in the way of critiques, so I will share that here: (Warning: numbers are pure theory, look more at ideas)

Passive: From the Shadows

Shen is a ninja, and is thus hard to land a solid hit on. Shen passively takes less damage (10%) from basic attacks and AoE spells/abilities. After taking damage from a certain number of attacks, Shen disappears into the shadows for 2 seconds. While stealthed, Shen can move through units. Shen's next attack deals bonus damage (5*lvl+5% bonus HP) and slows (30% for 2.5 seconds) his target. Attacking or casting a spell will immediately break the stealth)

(THOUGHTS: This passive alone makes Shen into a ninja tank. One minute he is there, the next he is repositioning on a higher priority target. This will synergize well specifically with his taunt.)

Q: Vorpal Blade_____Energy cost: 40_______Cooldown: 8/7/6/5/4__ Shen throws a bloodthirsty blade in a straight line (range: 500), dealing magic damage (40/80/120/160/200+30%AP) to the first target hit and marking them for 3 seconds. While the target is marked, Shen has vision of them and can activate Shadow Strike.

Q: Shadow Strike____Energy cost: 20_______Shen appears behind the target of his Vorpal Blade and rips it from them dealing magic damage (4/5/6/7/8% target's max health) and healing Shen for the same amount.

W: Ki-Strike_______Energy cost: 0________Cooldown: 12/11/10/9/8___ Shen next auto attack lashes out with both sword's striking enemies in front of him dealing magic damage (10/20/30/40/50+50%AD+10%Shen's bonus health) and restoring energy (10 per enemy hit, double on champions). Auto attacks reduce the cooldown of this ability by .5 seconds, doubled vs champions.

E: Shadow Dash____Energy cost: 100/95/90/85/80_____Cooldown: 12/11/10/9/8___Shen dashes a fixed distance (700?) dealing magic damage (60/70/80/90/100+50%AP) to all targets in his path. Champions hit by this ability are also taunted (1/1.25/1.5/1.75/2 seconds)and must attack Shen. Shen restores energy (20)for each enemy champion hit.

R: Shadow Protector/Eye of Twilight

Eye of Twilight: (Passive) Shen reveals invisible traps and units within 500 units of himself. Shen does not see these units if also hidden in bushes that he is himself not in

Shadow Protector___Cooldown: 120 seconds_____Range: 1200____ Shen targets an allied Champion in range and disappears into the shadows. All allied champions within range of the target gain a shield equal to 10% of Shen's max HP for up to 4 seconds. While Shielded, invisible traps and units are revealed within 300 units of the shielded ally. When 4 seconds have passed or the primary target's shield is destroyed, Shen reappears next to that ally, positioning himself between the ally and the nearest enemy champion. If Shen returns before 4 seconds, all of the shields on his allies end immediately as well as the vision effect.

(THOUGHTS: He can still take teleport like everyone else, but as a protector/defender, now does more when with his team. Shadow dash will help him to get his passive to proc, allowing him to either position on a higher priority target or move to protect his carry. As a split pusher, the Ki-Strike having a small AoE will help with his waveclear. His passive, Shadow Dash, and Vorpal Blade/Shadow Strike give him lots of mobility options for chasing/duels or escaping ganks. His theme as a Ninja, a tank, and a protector are all filled.)

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