When you make the difference between the "winning" jungler and the "losing" jungler so large, the team with the better jungler still wins more often than not. The problem of "better jgl wins" doesn't go away by balancing it the way it is being balanced
saltran25 votesAnd they just push even more ganking over farming Riot is doing some -200IQ changes
GayFluffyUnicorn2 votesWell riot already said THEY don't want junglers to have farming as an option.
That's just what league is nowadays, the devs decide how the game is supposed to be played.
That's why their revenue dropped and melted like an ice cube in hell.
Despite KDA, despite bazllion of chinese drones watching MSI and Worlds. Should give riot something to think about.
Zero Skill Tank1 votesThe problem with junglers isn't that they gank to much, the problem is that they get to gank as much as they please, while still being able to win 1v1s and provide as much value in teamfights as solo laners.
Gutting their exp to give solo laners agency over them in areas other then ganking and objective control isn't a great or elegant solution, but it is a solution. And since junglers have been dominating solo queue for years now, any solution is welcome.
BURRITOEATER99919 votesusually jg is just flamed because someone doesn't get ganked enough.
in the end, less tilted jg wins.
Beerstein13 votesusually jg is just flamed because someone doesn't get ganked enough.
in the end, less tilted jg wins.
Heh, funny you say this because once I started using a website to analyze my stats I realized that as a Jungler my aggression level is off the charts, but I still get mad trash talk from teams about not helping etc. As a jungler you just can't win until you learn to ignore your allies. I actually find that when someone starts begging for help/ganks that person is actually 99/100 times a write-off, and the absolute best you can do is help them not feed as much.
This is no way to win a game, so when this happens my immediate action is to try to get another lane fed putting both myself and the other lane in strong positions, allowing that lane to be dominant as well as protect the lost lane.
All said, I think one of the most important lessons for junglers is do NOT listen to your team and to NOT let them impact you when subconsciously you know what they're saying is not the right thing to do. 9/10 times they're asking you to die trying to save them giving the enemy 2 instead of 1 kill, or at best die in their place.
BURRITOEATER9996 votesThe reason things like this happen is because laners believe that jg is supposed to gank a losing lane. In the end, jg should only be ganking winning lanes. There's no reason to take a chance at ganking a losing lane and giving a double/triple kill.
Laners need to understand what a tower is, and use it to their advantage. I've played games where my teammates have died 5 + times in 10 minutes. Its hard to believe sometimes that you can feed so much, when you have a tower that does more damage than a 5/0 champ in 10 minutes.
Recently I've been muting my whole team, and ganking my winning lane. By ganking a winning line, it's free assists for you. And more kills to feed that winning lane.
By ganking a winning lane you can get a shit ton of gold, and feed two of you teammates. Yourself and the winning lane.
Now after ganking your winning lane a few time and getting fed up, you and that winning lane can roam the map, and collect bounties. By collecting these bounties and helping the rest of your team, you're comp will ultimately become stronger.
There is no reason to gank a losing lane early, unless you have a shit ton of cc.
Beerstein7 votesThe reason things like this happen is because laners believe that jg is supposed to gank a losing lane. In the end, jg should only be ganking winning lanes. There's no reason to take a chance at ganking a losing lane and giving a double/triple kill.
Laners need to understand what a tower is, and use it to their advantage. I've played games where my teammates have died 5 + times in 10 minutes. Its hard to believe sometimes that you can feed so much, when you have a tower that does more damage than a 5/0 champ in 10 minutes.
Recently I've been muting my whole team, and ganking my winning lane. By ganking a winning line, it's free assists for you. And more kills to feed that winning lane.
By ganking a winning lane you can get a shit ton of gold, and feed two of you teammates. Yourself and the winning lane.
Now after ganking your winning lane a few time and getting fed up, you and that winning lane can roam the map, and collect bounties. By collecting these bounties and helping the rest of your team, you're comp will ultimately become stronger.
There is no reason to gank a losing lane early, unless you have a shit ton of cc.
Bingo. A lot of what I see as a problem with junglers at lower level play is they legitimately just listen to trash talking allies too much. I still struggle to just let dead allies die sometimes, but the more I let go of them, the better the outcome of the game. I've been working on that mentality and getting the easiest to feed lane fed.
Most the time even when you to gank a lane asking for help, they won't even engage and like you said, then it's just two of you feeding the enemy instead of one. The exact opposite of what you'd do in a winning lane.
SeaWeaboo1 votesThe reason things like this happen is because laners believe that jg is supposed to gank a losing lane. In the end, jg should only be ganking winning lanes. There's no reason to take a chance at ganking a losing lane and giving a double/triple kill.
Laners need to understand what a tower is, and use it to their advantage. I've played games where my teammates have died 5 + times in 10 minutes. Its hard to believe sometimes that you can feed so much, when you have a tower that does more damage than a 5/0 champ in 10 minutes.
Recently I've been muting my whole team, and ganking my winning lane. By ganking a winning line, it's free assists for you. And more kills to feed that winning lane.
By ganking a winning lane you can get a shit ton of gold, and feed two of you teammates. Yourself and the winning lane.
Now after ganking your winning lane a few time and getting fed up, you and that winning lane can roam the map, and collect bounties. By collecting these bounties and helping the rest of your team, you're comp will ultimately become stronger.
There is no reason to gank a losing lane early, unless you have a shit ton of cc.
I agree that you should not gank a losing lane, but let's say someone has first pick toplane and they go a melee champ then they get counter picked by a Kennen or some other ranged bully. If they are stuggling and the jg does not ever gank and lets the kennen or whoever get ahead then It is the jg's fault in that instance for never ganking. otherwise, jg can do as he pleases imo.
Crescent Dusk5 votesThe reason things like this happen is because laners believe that jg is supposed to gank a losing lane. In the end, jg should only be ganking winning lanes. There's no reason to take a chance at ganking a losing lane and giving a double/triple kill.
Laners need to understand what a tower is, and use it to their advantage. I've played games where my teammates have died 5 + times in 10 minutes. Its hard to believe sometimes that you can feed so much, when you have a tower that does more damage than a 5/0 champ in 10 minutes.
Recently I've been muting my whole team, and ganking my winning lane. By ganking a winning line, it's free assists for you. And more kills to feed that winning lane.
By ganking a winning lane you can get a shit ton of gold, and feed two of you teammates. Yourself and the winning lane.
Now after ganking your winning lane a few time and getting fed up, you and that winning lane can roam the map, and collect bounties. By collecting these bounties and helping the rest of your team, you're comp will ultimately become stronger.
There is no reason to gank a losing lane early, unless you have a shit ton of cc.
Yeah, what could possibly go wrong with letting a Tryndamere or Darius top snowball just because they got a first blood in. I guess you won't gank a Talon midlane and leave him to stomp lane so he can free roam and snowball the bot lane and end the game 17/2/5.
Ganking winning lanes is stupid to begin with because winning lanes are likely pushing their opponents under tower. If your bot lane is winning, and the enemy bot is smart, they'll take what farm they can get under tower without feeding.
A melee top laner against a match up like Darius or Renekton or Aaatrox or Teemo will never be able to do this for obvious reasons, the first time they walk up to a minion even under tower they'll get chunked for half their health and the next time they'll get tower dived and die.
So your little project just propped up an uneven team that will lack either a frontline and get obliterated no matter how fed the ADC is or have a strong top lane with a weak ADC who can't siege worth a damn.
Junglers have an early chance to bring back lanes online, but your usual attitude of giving up on a lane straight away is exactly what contributes to "feeding" because the fact is that any non-botlane champ who is forced to farm under turret given their range will have massive gold deficits against his opponents and become completely irrelevant.
If you lost a gank 2v1 it's because you ignored that lane for so long in early game that the opponent got strong enough to 1v2 you.
Hügö3 votesWhen you solo lose more then 1 time to the enemy laner you are just outclassed, there is then no reason to try anything as it is just wasted time.
DuskDaUmbreon2 votesThere's no reason to take a chance at ganking a losing lane
And people wonder why there's a "snowball meta" - Because people refuse to try to stop snowball. They'd much rather help someone winning get ahead only slightly faster than they would on their own, rather than get their entire team ahead.
Yeah, don't waste time ganking a lane you have no chance of turning around, but if you're ganking the 5/0 MF/Brand botlane instead of the 0/1 Kassadin you deserve the loss.
Sp33d Zer01 votesDefine beggings for ganks? Because if I am playing something like Ashe Nami into Draven Blitz and we both have ults, I'm gonna tell my jungler he can gank the escapeless bot lane with our hard CC
Verxint5 votesThe jungler that doesn't listen to the crybabies and makes his own descisions usually wins
GayFluffyUnicorn2 votesYeah.
It's always funny to see when junglers get heavily outjungled by autofilled adc mains, top mains etc.
Junglers are by far the worst players. IT used to be different but jungle is so piss easy nowadays it draws bad players to it for free lp.
Beerstein2 votesYeah.
It's always funny to see when junglers get heavily outjungled by autofilled adc mains, top mains etc.
Junglers are by far the worst players. IT used to be different but jungle is so piss easy nowadays it draws bad players to it for free lp.
Lol, funny, since I actually started paying attention to who is in my games, I noticed people that off main into the jungle usually end up around 0-10 vs me in the jungle. Yeah, total pros. Same as if I go in lane they'll hand my ass to me, I'll do the same to them in the jungle. All I see here is that you're delusional and think you're way better than you are, and probably blame anyone but yourself for every loss you've ever had. Just a challenger being held down by junglers in your own mind lol.
Crescent Dusk2 votesusually jg is just flamed because someone doesn't get ganked enough.
in the end, less tilted jg wins.
What a load of crap.
There is a world of difference between a jg who afk farms while the enemy jungler has actual lane presence.
Her farms out and probably has more gold and xp than the enemy jungler, but his single gain means nothing when bot, top, or mid lane are snowballed. Bot specifically, because it means the enemy jungler is compensating his farm loss with assists and his team has a net game of 2 extra fed players who can then roam mid and snowball that lane too.
AFK jungling is a scourge on this game, and if the developers wanted to do anything to improve jungling, it should be by discouraging a jungler's incentive for autistic farms.
Axzarious3 votesSometimes AFK jungling is your only option. Primarily when all your lanes are repeatedly shoving their lanes to the enemy turret then feeding the other jungle and their lanes when they inevitably get ganked and then complain about it (In which case i'm usually warding their flanks or the enemy jungle and then pinging their ass when the enemy jungler is heading their way. Then they proceed to not only ignore the warning but complain again.) And I ain't even talking about the slow-push shove that builds up a strong wave to crash for a potential dive.
I've found the term "Better jungle wins" often being an excuse thrown out by the gormless who don't want to admit they lost the game.
Crescent Dusk1 votesSometimes AFK jungling is your only option. Primarily when all your lanes are repeatedly shoving their lanes to the enemy turret then feeding the other jungle and their lanes when they inevitably get ganked and then complain about it (In which case i'm usually warding their flanks or the enemy jungle and then pinging their ass when the enemy jungler is heading their way. Then they proceed to not only ignore the warning but complain again.) And I ain't even talking about the slow-push shove that builds up a strong wave to crash for a potential dive.
I've found the term "Better jungle wins" often being an excuse thrown out by the gormless who don't want to admit they lost the game.
Sure, if they are pushing lanes, they are to blame, but you can still avoid disaster by having that map awareness and making an educated guess on which overextended lane is going to get ganked and countergank it.
AFK farm is really only acceptable on certain hypercarry champs like Yi or Jax or Kindred and only when you know the enemy team isn't heavy on CC. There is really no excuse why a Xin Zhao or Camille or Lee Sin shouldn't be ganking, Lee sin and Camille can even Turret dive trivially from early on.
JG and bot lane are bar none the most impactful lanes in the game. Giving up on other laners because they are losing a match up is only going to make the snowball worse. The scales HAVE to be tipped back early or you might as well FF by 15 because outside Jax/Trynda/Yi farmed out jg's no other jg will really be able to 1v9.
Axzarious2 votesI'm not disputing that in some cases it is a legitimate complaint.
I'm making the statement in that in 90% of cases I see this excuse used it's because they refuse to change their tactics and approach to the lane regardless of what's happening. Laners have a much greater degree of agency than they seem to think, just like how quite a few seem to forget that they are HALF the gank. They will continue to mindlessly shove despite the enemy lane being ahead or how ahead the other jungle might be, much less what side of the map i'm on or where I might want to head next. Counterganking cannot solve all problems, bad matchups, or losing lanes - especially if both of them would be relatively healthy when they die at the enemy turret.
Crap like this is probably why farm junglers dominate high elo when they're good. They ward properly. They ping properly and heed warnings. It's harder to gank them because they're more aware - and that will let the farm jungler clear their side of the map or poach a camp or two while the ganking jungler is losing time on a gank that's not going to pan out.
Crescent Dusk2 votesI'm not disputing that in some cases it is a legitimate complaint.
I'm making the statement in that in 90% of cases I see this excuse used it's because they refuse to change their tactics and approach to the lane regardless of what's happening. Laners have a much greater degree of agency than they seem to think, just like how quite a few seem to forget that they are HALF the gank. They will continue to mindlessly shove despite the enemy lane being ahead or how ahead the other jungle might be, much less what side of the map i'm on or where I might want to head next. Counterganking cannot solve all problems, bad matchups, or losing lanes - especially if both of them would be relatively healthy when they die at the enemy turret.
Crap like this is probably why farm junglers dominate high elo when they're good. They ward properly. They ping properly and heed warnings. It's harder to gank them because they're more aware - and that will let the farm jungler clear their side of the map or poach a camp or two while the ganking jungler is losing time on a gank that's not going to pan out.
I disagree on the primacy of jungler types. I feel Camille/Khazix/Shaco/Lee/Xin/Nunu are as strong as ever and these are champs that just want to gank lanes 24/7. And the upcoming jungle changes are only going to make that worse.
It is true that laners have to take responsibility for making bad decisions, but the job of a jungler will always be to impact lanes and prevent snowballs.
If you see a match where you Garen or Darius just got counterpicked by a Teemo or Kayle or an Irelia got a Fiora match up and you don't visit those lanes before the inevitable happens, it doesn't just fall on the laner.
I will grant that I'd love to see more people complain about bot lane shitting the bed as their performance is even more critical than the jungler's and somehow junglers take all the blame for match outcomes.
Midlaners might ward but it is also the job of your own laner to buy pinks and lenses to make sure those ganks happen.
Axzarious2 votesThe upcoming changes to jungle and certain crit items like Phantom Dancer really make me wonder what RIOT is smoking sometimes. Doubling down on the problems that led to the gank fiesta in the first place isn't going to make junglers have less of an impact when there's even less reason to be in the jungle. Failing 3 ganks but manage to pull off 1 and being farther ahead than I am from clearing twice as many camps as they have is kind of bullshit.
It's more of an issue in lower ELO where you will have those aforementioned and very preventable mistakes i've listed that lead to them getting ganked and losing hard, then blaming the jungler when it's entirely their fault they died. Like a Garen or Darius shoving their lane against a counterpick like Teemo. If they'd hang back at their turret and are playing properly, I'd be making frequent trips to their lane.
From everything Riot has mentioned so far, in higher Elo, farm junglers are disproportionately strong precisely because your laners are less likely to be morons and the junglers are able to take advantage of the time when a jungle fails a gank or starts camping lanes.
Crescent Dusk1 votesThe upcoming changes to jungle and certain crit items like Phantom Dancer really make me wonder what RIOT is smoking sometimes. Doubling down on the problems that led to the gank fiesta in the first place isn't going to make junglers have less of an impact when there's even less reason to be in the jungle. Failing 3 ganks but manage to pull off 1 and being farther ahead than I am from clearing twice as many camps as they have is kind of bullshit.
It's more of an issue in lower ELO where you will have those aforementioned and very preventable mistakes i've listed that lead to them getting ganked and losing hard, then blaming the jungler when it's entirely their fault they died. Like a Garen or Darius shoving their lane against a counterpick like Teemo. If they'd hang back at their turret and are playing properly, I'd be making frequent trips to their lane.
From everything Riot has mentioned so far, in higher Elo, farm junglers are disproportionately strong precisely because your laners are less likely to be morons and the junglers are able to take advantage of the time when a jungle fails a gank or starts camping lanes.
Yeah, I'll just take any change that makes it so the jungler ganks and bot not shitting the bed are the only win conditions to a game. You can be a 17/2/3 Talon and still lose the game if those conditions are not met, it's truly maddening.
I'd just settle for a game where the power gaps are not kept as wide and people don't become irrelevant the moment they fall behind 1 kill and a wave worth of xp.
Heroes of The Storm does a really good job of giving teams a somewhat even footing throughout most of the game and win conditions coming down mostly to winning on objectives.
Axzarious2 votesFrom what i've gathered about the way things are going, RIOT is trying to force interaction but doing it in a way that's kind of counter-intuitive and then trying to double down on the change when it was the initial direction that caused the problem in the first place. Most of these changes appear to be things that are more fun to watch on broadcast for spectators who've never played the game.
I mean, the whole gold-funneling thing came about as the result of jungle nerfs by increasing camp respawn time to force more interaction.
Top lane's value will always be an issue so long as Dragons always spawn in the bottom pit, though rift does somewhat mitigate the issue. Of course, bot lane also has two people who can pull ahead and twice as much gold in it as a result.
Crescent Dusk1 votesFrom what i've gathered about the way things are going, RIOT is trying to force interaction but doing it in a way that's kind of counter-intuitive and then trying to double down on the change when it was the initial direction that caused the problem in the first place. Most of these changes appear to be things that are more fun to watch on broadcast for spectators who've never played the game.
I mean, the whole gold-funneling thing came about as the result of jungle nerfs by increasing camp respawn time to force more interaction.
Top lane's value will always be an issue so long as Dragons always spawn in the bottom pit, though rift does somewhat mitigate the issue. Of course, bot lane also has two people who can pull ahead and twice as much gold in it as a result.
Exactly, top lane only becomes a real issue if the snowball is bad and you end up with no viable frontline as a result.
I feel sometimes as a midlaner like it doesn't matter how ahead I get because my impact is marginal in comparison to a fed bot and jungler.
And honestly if it were to me I shouldn't gain massive advantages for being ahead, nor should anybody. The best this ame can do is go back to giving people a fighting chance past the first death in lane. All of which can be done by tweaking passive gold income for people without too many kills and exp range of mobs. They can then tweak jungler items so a jungler doesn't feel like he's half a laner thanks to being stuck with smite and starting out with a jungle item.
Axzarious1 votesTo be fair, the support and jungle can be a front liner, and even mid there's the potential to be a front-liner with somebody like Galio, who's probably a little overtuned (If they REALLY want to give him a little more damage they should just slap some MR ratios on his attacks like how Malphite has Armor ratios on his abilities).
When it comes to the impact midlaners have? It's arguable they have the ability to impact mid and top, and i'd also say there's a reason Waterwalking and Celerity are a thing in the mage tree... though on the other hand, they're competing with runes most mages will probably find infinitely more valuable once the primary laning phase is over. It's also incredibly risky for mages to wander off into an unwarded river or jungle, ESPECIALLY if the enemy jungle is fed.
Of course, this is also probably a symptom of games getting shorter and shorter, especially when the higher Elos are involved since players are much less likely to not only throw a game, but also know how to close games out more reliably.
As much as people complain about mage oneshot combos, they kind of NEED it. If you're lux or some other mage who relies on skillshots and you miss? An ADC will just end you by the time it's up again because all they need is to be in auto range and they typically move faster than you. The lack of agency for mages is probably a problem what they've traditionally brought to the table was AoE damage, Burst, and Waveclear. The ADC brought sustained damage which is great for taking objectives and turrets, but now they've also got things like Shiv and Runaans which can assist them in clearing waves - which also kind of hurts the uniqueness of ADCs who were more focused on AoE damage like Sivir.
And then there's other problematic bullshit with Assassins like Ekko who has waveclear with his Q that's better than most mages - usually in mana efficiency, damage scaling, or both.
Beerstein3 votesI'm not disputing that in some cases it is a legitimate complaint.
I'm making the statement in that in 90% of cases I see this excuse used it's because they refuse to change their tactics and approach to the lane regardless of what's happening. Laners have a much greater degree of agency than they seem to think, just like how quite a few seem to forget that they are HALF the gank. They will continue to mindlessly shove despite the enemy lane being ahead or how ahead the other jungle might be, much less what side of the map i'm on or where I might want to head next. Counterganking cannot solve all problems, bad matchups, or losing lanes - especially if both of them would be relatively healthy when they die at the enemy turret.
Crap like this is probably why farm junglers dominate high elo when they're good. They ward properly. They ping properly and heed warnings. It's harder to gank them because they're more aware - and that will let the farm jungler clear their side of the map or poach a camp or two while the ganking jungler is losing time on a gank that's not going to pan out.
Don't bother arguing with him, he's creating extreme and specific situations to further the "it's the junglers fault" mentality that non junglers have.
Profirix2 votesThere seems to be a lot of that on these boards: you get people who just want to argue so far in one direction that they don't carefully think about it. I made a post earlier about this and I've either gotten responses from people who completely agree with me or people who are totally against it. Then they go and down-vote you because they don't agree, not because it is a good or bad post.
Aseraan2 votesBut why do you expect me to predict that you will get ganked cuz you overextend? Isnt this a but blunt per say ma friend a laner should know not to overextend or be awere of its surrondings and at the moment i "HAVE TO" predict you getting ganked for said overextending ur not doing ur part right already. Also if per say i predict it i cant be there all the time and per say IF im predicting the ganks right why is that noone listen to my pings even after 10 out 10 of my predicted ganks happened whitin 10 second windows. How can someone expect to get soo much benefition while being so effing blind to anythign else and refusing to play along. Its like Brexit all over again. How does this work?
GayFluffyUnicorn2 votesIf you need to "predict" where the jungler is you do not understand the game.
You should as a jungler know the usual paths and know where the jungler is that is YOUR JOB. You are NOT laning, you don't have to constantly play against real human beings you have all the time and focus on what happens on the map. Seriously, reading this you expect your laners to do everything and more so you can enjoy your PVE sightseeing trip.
The enemy jungler can not be at more than one lane so either you countergank or gank another lane in the mean time. IF all you do is stand in the jungle, afk clear and ping your laners you are to blame.
Aseraan2 votesBut seriusly whats whit this logic? I already do drakes solo in my games(when i do them) even herald. Where is the "team" in that? Where is the "team" in oicking a champ into lane whit no cc or any thing to base a gank on outside of the enemy missposition. Where is the "team" when the junglers gets 3 v 1 on botside scutle and no mid or bot helps?
Why are you so biased? I dont lane vs a human all the time? Is that rly a hard thing? You see your enemy 80% of the time ur there, the enemy you cant see is worst. Why are you guys pulling the same bs every time? Its a teamgame when the jungler needs to do his job and a bunch of other things but its fine to sit on your lane not buying one control ward during a 35 min game not pushing the lane before you back not playing accordingly ur lane opponent. But expecting the jungler to put everything on a silver plater for you.
Sure i dont know jungle pathing im bad at the game sure im not good i always say that. Sure again not playing against a human opponent all the time......ye nice argument right there like 3 out of my 4 other """"""teammates""""" flaming me for every bit of thing i do or do not is much much better.
Also name checks out. Every year i see more and more jungler changes/nerfs its time you laners start being important to ffs.
GayFluffyUnicorn2 votesNo they are not.
The jungler is entirely to blame for not covering his winning lanes.
What a fuckin r word statement is that. Laners are to blame for pushing their lanes? Like winning your lane and playing the game correctly means you should get blamed? What?
GayFluffyUnicorn2 votesI'm gonna introduce you to a VERY strange and complicated concept. You need to be especially educated in quantum physics to understand the intricacy of said concept that is called: counterganking.
Pinging the enemy jungler doesn't give laners magically more movement speed or AD or armor or anything. It is YOUR job to control the enemy jungler and make sure your winning lanes KEEP WINNING. If your lanes are winning and can shove and deny cs and you let the enemy jungler afk on them IT IS ENTIRELY AND ONLY YOUR FAULT FOR NOT KEEPING TRACK AND COUNTERGANKING.
When your laners already win the 1v1 they will win the 2v2 as well with you.
It is also not too difficult to towerdive people. Somehow towerdiving is completely alien to junglers below high diamond.
And yes usually i nowadays just resent to ignore if the jungler is coming. If one team has a jungler while the other afks so be it then we lose i'm not gonna play my ass off to carry a useless sack of potatoes. Atleast i have the chance to maybe educate a player on how to play.
Axzarious2 votesIf you go back and read what I wrote from the first post it should be clear that I ain't denying that purpose.
I'm describing those boneheads who AREN'T winning, but constantly shoving their lane like morons. They haven't managed to get kills and have likely already died without the enemy jungler even swinging by. They're behind in CS despite the shove. They still try to all-in the enemy despite being down 3 or more kills. If the wave ever gets into a position where they could set up a freeze or build a big wave? They shove it to the other turret asap instead of building a wave or holding a freeze and then wonder why they get ganked. They've also likely failed to build according to their laner, like getting berserker greaves against Draven rather than Ninja Tabi.
They probably don't rotate to help with scuttle or help with an invade. They probably prioritize the minions battling it out in a place where they won't miss cs when I do gank - heck, most of the time the enemy support will rotate giving them a window to all in the enemy ADC for free. I'll be watching wards and slapping some down to give them advance notice if the enemy jungler is coming - more than enough time to stroll back to their turret to avoid dying.
I'm talking about those cases where it's often the case they're losing the lane regardless of the enemy jungler's presence and just getting camped because they're playing like a 300 gold minion.
I'll focus on the lanes that are winning. If all 3 lanes aren't winning, i'm just going to powerfarm until there's an opening I can exploit to grab an objective, take a turret, or get some kills.
ZephyrDrake3 votesyou are right just make junglers be lvl 18 and full build from the start because literally nothing Riot does will make Junglers not have an impact in the game.
Glaricion6 votesThe issue OP is discussing is jungle being forced into less of a 'jungling' role, and more of a 'roamer with no lane' role.
The changes make it so that a jungler's power is becoming more-and-more solely based on successful ganks as the ability to stay relevant by utilizing the jungle is being continually whittled away.
Crescent Dusk1 votesThe issue OP is discussing is jungle being forced into less of a 'jungling' role, and more of a 'roamer with no lane' role.
The changes make it so that a jungler's power is becoming more-and-more solely based on successful ganks as the ability to stay relevant by utilizing the jungle is being continually whittled away.
Not really. You could give farming jungle a huge gold advantage over gank assists or even kills and good junglers would still prefer ganking simply because ganking snowballs 2-3 (if bot) players instead of one.
Horse Grenades5 votesThe issue OP is discussing is jungle being forced into less of a 'jungling' role, and more of a 'roamer with no lane' role.
The changes make it so that a jungler's power is becoming more-and-more solely based on successful ganks as the ability to stay relevant by utilizing the jungle is being continually whittled away.
Things Riot hates: farming, laning, vision, and champions being allowed to stay relevant in a way that isn’t a constant bloodbath
Things Riot loves: shorter games, one shots, fog of war, constant fighting, Tencent’s money.
They don’t care about their core audience anymore. They care about PC Bangs and hentai skins.
Crispy0Snake3 votesyou are right just make junglers be lvl 18 and full build from the start because literally nothing Riot does will make Junglers not have an impact in the game.
I never wrote in my post that I wanted junglers to have no impact in the game. I was just pointing out that they've made it in such a way that one jungler will be two levels behind because of the scuttle and jungle xp changes. That creates a bigger gap for a smaller skill difference than before. Often it's not even skill, it's just the champion that's picked.
Aseraan3 votesAsa jungle main im pretty burned out from all the trashtalk so i left the role. Now im playing fill and feeding my ass off in top and adc. Its much better tho rest of the team still flames the jungler no matter what the fuk i do its a miracle(or should i say it makes me wonder) how ignorant ppl can be.
BestPudgeNA2 votesI agree nerfing a role makes it better xD.
A Bepi2 votesWell I'm fucked as a jungler now haha evelynn and nocturne wont be good picks, meta will revolve around camile and early aggressors like twitch and others. I guess it's TRUE what they say, put monkeys in a room with a type writer and they will wrote Shakespeare but in this case they will balance league.
DarkTree11 votesi'm glad riot is making it easier and more accessible for me to say "jg gap" every game, instead of placing seeds of doubt in my mind that maybe it was me who went 0-13 that lost this game. thank you, riot games
GigglesO1 votesThat’s why they are making role queue. It removes a lot of skill disparity.
Metal Janna1 votesRiot Games: "We've noticed that junglers are having too much impact on the outcome of the game via early ganks. To address this problem we're forcing junglers to fight their opposing jungler more often, turning the jungle into one giant midlane." Wait, what? How is making the jungle more snowbally supposed to address the problem of junglers carrying too hard? Those are literally two seperate things!
There. Now this thread has at least one on-topic reply, even if I have little to offer but agreement with the OP.
FSRER1 votesAnd with the new patch, when a jungler (lets say a twitch) lvl 2 ganks you and forces you out of lane, he will stay and maybe with the laner take 1 plating or 2 (depended on the laner) without having to risk xp because if he was or not in jungle he would take the same xp.
GripaAviara1 votesImpact of the early jungle could be easily mitigated by adding vision for 5 minutes on the entrances to lanes, except mid, make ward trinket have 1 start charge and a 3 minute cooldown until min 6.