If you Declare Pyke jgl in champ select, I'm 100% banning it from you

Crispy0Snake·Jun 2, 2018·19 votes·9,183 views

Title, his cooldowns are too long for him to be a viable jgl, Just had a pyke jgl in my game that went 3 20 and threw the game super hard

45 Comments

Fondling GemsJun 2, 201815 votes

As someone who was initially skeptical about the idea that Pyke could jungle I decided to test his clear on the PBE multiple times. Without a leash I was able to clear most of my jungle and by level 5 it was honestly one of the better jg clears in the game.

The main weakness of Pyke jungle is the first 2-3 levels, since he can't duel for scuttle crabs, which makes him weak in the current meta, but not actually a bad jungler. Since he was designed around support his ganks are actually quite good.

One person being incompetent at a new champion does not mean the champion is actually bad in the roll.

Crispy0SnakeJun 3, 20181 votes

This was in a high gold Ranked flex 5v5 game, the enemy Jax jgl just walked in to our jgl and killed him and anyone that tried to help. The Pyke got both early Scuttles

After watching his clear the main weakness is that his autos deal very little damage and as I put in the post, his cooldowns are too high. He gets eaten alive by camps early, even when kiting them. He tried to gank (before he was put behind) and the enemy laners just killed him and got away

If he starts as blue team and gets his bot to leesh red buff (He really needs red or camps just live for too long and deal too much damage to him) and has lanes with early priority and cc, then I can see it being okay. Those are just too many conditions for me to not ban it before champions are picked though

Also I'm not talking about normal games, you can declare Janna jgl in a normal game and I wouldn't ban it, just in a ranked game I don't want a Pyke on my team

Fondling GemsJun 3, 20181 votes

I personally haven't had trouble clearing the jungle. Without a leash I was able to take both red and raptors solo. The Jax was just a bad matchup, there aren't many junglers that can stop a Jax from walking in and killing them.

At level 5 Pyke actually clears just fine, not Shyvana levels of clear but still on the same level as many top tier junglers, there are just a lot of mistakes Pyke jungles can make. (Not starting E, starting E but maxing it instead of Q, not knowing the timing on E to cancel jungle autos, Charging Q instead of fast casting it, etc.)

Honestly I can understand banning Pyke in ranked, personally I would ban him regardless of role simply because I don't think he should be in ranked before 1 week has passed. Banning him for not being support off the result of one game is a bit silly though. If Pyke plays it correctly he can jungle just fine, and with his W can escape invades quite easily so long as he is paying attention.

Chembaron YamadaJun 2, 20189 votes

Fair enough. Funny that some people still don't know what he is intended to be, tho. Had a game in which someone called me a troll for declaring Pyke support, since "Pyke is clearly not a support champion".

3TWarriorJun 2, 20182 votes

well, by the same logic riot used, EKKO could be a support...if he shared the kills responsibly

i'll have to look into his kit

ShinjusukeJun 2, 20181 votes

"Supposed to be" according to Riot is rarely actually placing a champion in their optimal location. I mean, when you have to actively and deliberately undertune stat values and level 1 damage on abilities to stop a champion from jungling, maybe they're just a jungler.

Riot's intended role, and where a champion is most useful or best kitted to, frequently does not line up.

PokladnicaZlaJun 2, 20184 votes

To be fair there isn't anything in his kit that makes people say ˝He's a support˝ XD

Chembaron YamadaJun 2, 20184 votes

He has a hook ability and an AoE stun. And he benefits from having an ally nearby, since he can share gold with his ultimate.

I mean, what is Blitzcrank in your eyes? He provides basically just damage and CC, like Pyke.

Jerry SeinfeIdJun 2, 20184 votes

Blitz is an ap assassin/bruiser. or an ad assassin/bruiser? blitz is scary. But unlike pyke, he was never designed to be a support, he just happens to have what's probably the best CC in the game (when looking at single abilities)

PokladnicaZlaJun 3, 20181 votes

Many champions and classes have CC, some don't work in the support role. Even as far as CC goes,his is lackluster compared to most supports. Champions like Blitz and Naut work in the supp role because they have either huge amounts of CC( Naut's snare,pull,AoE slow and AoE knock up or have deadly CC instant pull,knock up or AoE silence ). Compared to their tankiness,Pyke is a lot of squishier. Ye he's intended to be a support,but there's nothing really ˝attaching˝ him to bot. He share's gold? Well, Fiora has an AoE heal, Orianna has a shield and MS buff ,but they still don't work very well as supports. Having teamifght utility isn't exclusive to supports.

Note,this isn't a QQ thread,but more of opinion that Pyke might end up better in solo lanes or the jng, be deemed too strong and get nerfed into the ground with support being left unplayable. Tbh, there're other way RITO could have incorporated other support aspects in his kit ( damage increase debuff as an passive for allies, myb an MS buff for allies during his W, some kind of stat conversion with H&S power?).

OnotoriJun 2, 20188 votes

Then I'll just play Soraka jungle.

But judging a champ based off one player is silly.

KharlonJun 2, 20185 votes

Well he is rocking a sub 40% winrate at the moment, seems no one has figured him out and if your wanting to win, I can see banning a teammate from playing it.

OnotoriJun 2, 20184 votes

People said the same about Swain and Ornn, but I had a 52+ on both of them.

I don't have a 52+ on Pyke because I've been getting feeder teams (but I have less than 10 games, so it jumps around a lot), but I'm sitting at a 4:1 KD so far, which doesn't seem too bad.

3TWarriorJun 2, 20181 votes

well, problem is, riot created a concept without a method for execution( pun unintended). Assassins don't do well in dual-lanes because the support can peel them off and then they become in danger of feeding

edit: after looking at his kit, it seems "decent' but will probably still suffer from its lack of proper utility

StaconaJun 2, 20186 votes

He cannot jungle, he is a support. Blitzcrank has a better clear and better ganks, and he is still an awful jungler.

EvilxUndertonezJun 2, 20187 votes

I've had a great Pyke jg who carried the team ended like 15/5 a few hours ago...don't be such a hater

FOR JUSTICEJun 2, 20184 votes

you're judging his jungling proficiency based off of a single crappy player, who probably has never played him before. hes been out just over 24 hours, so its therefore impossible he has much skill in the champ yet. give it time.

Daddy AntsJun 2, 20184 votes

{quoted}

you're judging his jungling proficiency based off of a single crappy player, who probably has never played him before. hes been out just over 24 hours, so its therefore impossible he has much skill in the champ yet. give it time.

{quoted}

Then I'll just play Soraka jungle.

But judging a champ based off one player is silly.

The champ has no sustain.

Clear is slow as fuck.

He's not made to be a jungler.

ShinjusukeJun 2, 20184 votes

His first clear is bad. Literally after you buy any AD, he clears no slower than anyone else, and it's more than worth it if for that ideal jungle-gank kit.

You had a bad teammate. Don't be an asshole just cuz you "disagree" with a perfectly viable option for the champion.

Pika FoxJun 2, 20181 votes

Hes literally unviable as a jungler. He cant get HP, his passive doesnt sustain him, he has low innate sustain, and any competant jungler will run through your jungle and get a free kill if they see you.

Hes intentionally designed to never be a viable jungler, and if he shows any signs of being able to jungle will get nerfed until he cant.

IceKingChernobogJun 2, 20183 votes

i had some guy who went pyke support and ended up giving the jinx/camile botlane 6 kills. Thank god yi carried though.

Definitely banning pyke every chance i get.

420 gramsJun 2, 20183 votes

Ok but I'm going kalista ignite and smite instead

Meep ManJun 2, 20183 votes

I just had a Pyke Jungle carry my game not too long ago.

Andrey0345Jun 2, 20183 votes

While he's indeed not the best jungle, when he gets items later on, he's actually pretty decent. A lot of junglers are not very good early and have mediocre clear so it's nothing special. Ganks are nice though.

DW DianaJun 2, 20183 votes

{quoted}

While he's indeed not the best jungle, when he gets items later on, he's actually pretty decent. A lot of junglers are not very good early and have mediocre clear so it's nothing special. Ganks are nice though.

So is Malzahar, that doesn't make him a good jungler lol.

Andrey0345Jun 2, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Loki1987,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4ZsUbOnw,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2018-06-02T07:39:28.854+0000)

So is Malzahar, that doesn't make him a good jungler lol.

But does malz have good ganks? he's kinda immobile for that. And I think malz jungle could be not that bad with his R.

DW DianaJun 2, 20181 votes

{quoted}

But does malz have good ganks? he's kinda immobile for that. And I think malz jungle could be not that bad with his R.

Malz used to be a great jungler, and yes his ganks were good partly because of his ult, but he also used to do damage. No he is NOT a good jungler, because like Pyke he cannot clear quickly or healthily and takes too long to be able to do so

VICHEL CHAOSJun 2, 20183 votes

Fine, ban my pick. I will totally not go to your lane to smite your cannons and take your cs :). If you are tilted enough by one player, then they will be better in my pockets than in yours.

WoodakoodashoodaJun 2, 20182 votes

Better idea, dodge the Q and avoid being trolled by a player.

hhaavviikkJun 2, 20182 votes

and that is why you never declare your champions if it's off-meta because it WILL get banned

SugarliciousJun 2, 20182 votes

Meanwhile, I had a guy ban it from me, support, because "he's a bad support". I mean okay, I get it, he's hard and some people will suck at him. But I'm a support main, I'm supposed to play him, so if you're not gonna trust me about playing him right, who are you gonna trust?

Then I had another guy choosing him bot, forcing me to go adc because "pyke is good any role, trust me". People are too stupid about him in general...

PhDs NutsJun 2, 20182 votes

{quoted}

People are too stupid ~~about him~~ in general...

BLACK REALM GODJun 2, 20181 votes

pyke jungle

how are you going to get around when your kit is designed to have mid game mobility and accounts for 2 mobility abilities and a set of mobility boots?
your attack speed is terrible, how are you going to sustain with machete?
you dont have built in sustain from minions and monsters so how do you plan to tank drake?
when it comes time to baron and you dont have HP... what are you going to do with all that lethality when you cant... USE IT?
You pick pyke and the enemy team takes a jungle tank, a crowd control mid, a healer support, a fighter top, and a long ranged marksman bottom. what are you going to do?

pyke jungle is not a good idea.

NocturnalSheildJun 2, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=BLACK REALM GOD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4ZsUbOnw,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-06-02T05:51:43.292+0000)

pyke jungle

how are you going to get around when your kit is designed to have mid game mobility and accounts for 2 mobility abilities and a set of mobility boots?

your attack speed is terrible, how are you going to sustain with machete?

you dont have built in sustain from minions and monsters so how do you plan to tank drake?

when it comes time to baron and you dont have HP... what are you going to do with all that lethality when you cant... USE IT?

You pick pyke and the enemy team takes a jungle tank, a crowd control mid, a healer support, a fighter top, and a long ranged marksman bottom. what are you going to do?

pyke jungle is not a good idea.

Your right. Better pick karthus jungle instead.

BLACK REALM GODJun 2, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Your right. Better pick karthus jungle instead.

the difference between AD and AP

item 1041 item 1039

flibitydooJun 2, 20181 votes

I tried it in Twisted Treeline. But that's cheating because the jungle there is easier and also you can literally make your starting items item 1039 item 1041 item 2003 x3.

That being said, For those who haven't tried pyke jungle- His Q and his E are the only jungle camp damaging abilities he has, and they both have 15 second cooldowns at level 1. They hit for 100 dmg but that's all you're getting out of them for the most part (no like bonus attackspeed like xin zhao, or innate cooldown reduction like master yi does). He does start the game with 45 base armour which is nice. His passive doesn't do anything for your clear.

IcyPepperJun 2, 20181 votes

Tbh he makes a better top laner than jungle... but considering he can never be truly tanky, probably best to do with a tank jungler (who don't seem all that relevant atm).

Ok sure but whyJun 2, 20181 votes

It's kinda stupid that the only difference between "catcher supports" and "any other laner" is the length of their cooldown. Silly Riot.

SangreDeNocheJun 2, 20181 votes

I did the same and I was called "the cancer of the league community" and flamed all game by allies that all went negative.

Summonah12369Jun 2, 20181 votes

Good cus there's a very low chance I'll actually end up in a lobby with you.

no to toxicJun 2, 20181 votes

Lol loser. Real people wich aren´t loses like you ban Pyke from their teammates no matter what.

BeatzBoyFTWJun 2, 20181 votes

If you Declare Pyke~~ jgl in champ select~~, I'm 100% banning it from you

FTFY

Pika FoxJun 2, 20181 votes

Im still against banning team intents and think it should be a verifiable bannable offense.

That being said.... I dont get why these people think he could ever be a viable jungler. Yeah, it works in AI games. But good luck against a competant enemy jungler.

Bobloser3555Jun 2, 20181 votes

thats why i dont declare my champ if im playing off meta

AxzariousJun 2, 20181 votes

It might be because you're in bronze, but i've found that Pyke jungle is an absolute beast, provided your laners actually know how to set up for a gank. If they're packing hard CC like stuns or roots, you're virtually guaranteed to pick up a kill.