Why Karthus is left to Rot

Jefftiffy··2 votes·832 views

I don't understand. Anivia's kit is literally a shit ton of AoEs and CC that enable her for high single target burst and AoE damage and she even has a passive that helps her if she fucks up. She gets a second life with no cost to her HP pool. Karthus has a similar HP pool (like 10 or so difference) for a passive that essentially requires him to die to get value out of it and even then there are so many ways to counter it and doesn't even allow used of summoner's or actives. Anivia's rework if anything removed her weakness of her early game, which was if you could out run the Qs you could win lane. She even has a better wall.

Now she can at lvl 14 with the same AP as Karthus do 1k damage in a single rotation to Karthus's 500 because she isn't ever going to be in range of his E. And to top it off, Karthus's is a skill shot that people can walk out of the center with about 330 MS and she has 335.

Like I don't think TahmKench eating someone should save them from a global on target ult but at the same time let people like Lucian continue their ult inside of him. I call new champ favoritism on that. And his ult is on almost as long of a CD as Ignite. It really should start at 180 and go to 120. 200 is really high when ignite is 210. Even with 40% CDR that ult is only up every 72s. And Karthus has no room for 40% CDR with his kit. He is basically locked into buying item 3027 item 3116 item 3020 just to make up for how immobile he is and how squishy he is.

Karthus need's to be able to cast while moving on Q. No more cast times will help a lot. And it really needs to be on a .4s explosion time instead of .5s or up the AoE from 100 to 125.

Another thing. His E really needs buffs to mana cost since mana is so much harder to come by now. 30 / 42 / 54 / 66 / 78 for a non ultimate over time is ridiculous when it shuts off the passive. It should be like 30/38/46/52/60 and you get half effect of the passive. 60 per second with Q is over 100 mana per second usage meaning maybe a 16s total uptime at most for Karthus after the buffs if he lives that long.

That is literally all I think Karthus needs to even be able to compare with Anivia in to why you would take him. His trade off would be global utility over team fight utility. And he would have move counters availabe (item 3157 item 3102 Bard and more).

Karthus may have a 50% win rate, but it doesn't really mean anything when I look and see his play rate is abyssmal and he is only picked as a super niche pick and still very rarely. I feel like just looking at his Diamond Ranked he is only played by like 1 guy. And Master+ it's even worse. http://www.lolking.net/champions/karthus?chartType=winrate&region=na&map=sr&queue=1x1&league=diamond#statistics The loyalty is also less than 1% for over 50 games on him in Plat+.

That shows just how bad of a state his kit is in. When there isn't even 1 person making him work or even maining him in high elos.

14 Comments

L Psy Kongroo6 votes

He's left to rot because he's a dead guy...........that's what they do.

nosafterburn1 votes

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

CerealBoxOfDoom2 votes

because he's semigamewarping and does a lot of naughty things

item counters are irrelevant and frankly don't help his case

Handy Sandy 1 votes

Banshee's doesn't counter karthus, and he's actually extremely strong but a lot of people just really suck at using him and can't land skillshots for their life against people at the same skill level.

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

Banshee's doesn't counter karthus, and he's actually extremely strong but a lot of people just really suck at using him and can't land skillshots for their life against people at the same skill level.

No that's because his skill shot is one of the hardest to hit in the game on someone who knows how to dodge. 90% of champs can walk out of it without boots. Once they get boots, Karthus is useless until he gets enough mana to be able to wall of pain them for damage. His kit has the most counter play in the game. You can stay out of range. You can out run him. You can burst him. You can go invulnerable. You can CC him. You can just build MR and not care. The only bad thing you can do is kill him and stand on him or near him when he's dead.

yoshi27901 votes

He litterly has 52% + winrate on diamon masters and challenger sometimes even 60%+ in challenger master

he's strong but difficult

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

He litterly has 52% + winrate on diamon masters and challenger sometimes even 60%+ in challenger master

he's strong but difficult

No, that's called extreme niche. It's like Galio. And guess what is happening to him. He is getting reworked because of an incoherent kit.

Karthus has a really good kit, but his numbers are so bad that he can't ever be viable unless he is played 100% to his potential. And his potential is pretty hard to get to and constantly gets nerfed.

Before the mage rework they nerfed his slow on his wall and removed its ability to see in bushes. But after the mage rework he is still in a really iffy state. I can guarantee you if you go look at almost any other champ there is going to be greater than a 1% loyalty to them. Karthus in master+ has a less than .8% loyalty at 50+ games played. Which is enough to say that he isn't good enough for people to pick him a lot, but he does have a few situations where he can perform well. To put it this way. Galio has more loyal players than Karthus in master+ and they out perform Karthus. And Galio is a more niche pick.

And you are also picking win rates off a tier that he may actually play 1 game in the case of 60% 5 games. That's a very small sample size.

Akali is SO HOT1 votes

He's been in the top 15 winrates for mid laners for most of the season.

LadyRenly1 votes

I feel like he is pretty strong atm actually.

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

I feel like he is pretty strong atm actually.

If you call strong losing all your game once someone buys item 1001. If they have dashs you are dead anyways. He only does ok against other immobile mages. And even then it's whether or not they are good enough to walk off your Qs. I believe you need almost exactly 335 MS to out run his Qs if they are dropped just barely in front of the champ. Most champs end with about 380+ and the only way to drop them lower is to land the wall and follow up. And even then you are screwed if you don't have Rylias to keep the slows on them.

Let's not forget how many abilities and items counter his ult. I can list a bunch for you. TahmKench Janna Ekko Fizz Bard Lissandra Anivia Aatrox Malzahar Elise Shaco Kindred Morgana Sona Soraka Zac Vladimir Kalista Fiora Alistar Blitzcrank Kayle Kled Nocturne Sivir Renekton Nasus Taric item 3157 item 3102 item 3190 item 3401 item 3222 item 3812 Lulu Tryndamere Zed

A list of 37 counters to Karthus. 6 of which are items. All items are viable in their respective classes (ADC, mage, tank, etc). 37 ways to dodge or live through his ult which is on a summoner spell length CD.

Try to list 1 match up in Karthus's favor. I can't really think of one. Maybe Akali pre-6.

LadyRenly1 votes

{quoted}

If you call strong losing all your game once someone buys item 1001. If they have dashs you are dead anyways. He only does ok against other immobile mages. And even then it's whether or not they are good enough to walk off your Qs. I believe you need almost exactly 335 MS to out run his Qs if they are dropped just barely in front of the champ. Most champs end with about 380+ and the only way to drop them lower is to land the wall and follow up. And even then you are screwed if you don't have Rylias to keep the slows on them.

Let's not forget how many abilities and items counter his ult. I can list a bunch for you. TahmKench Janna Ekko Fizz Bard Lissandra Anivia Aatrox Malzahar Elise Shaco Kindred Morgana Sona Soraka Zac Vladimir Kalista Fiora Alistar Blitzcrank Kayle Kled Nocturne Sivir Renekton Nasus Taric item 3157 item 3102 item 3190 item 3401 item 3222 item 3812 Lulu Tryndamere Zed

Try to list 1 match up in Karthus's favor. I can't really think of one. Maybe Akali pre-6.

I buy Rylais second item, it's not so bad. If you land a single Q, it's not unreasonable to be able to chain Qs. I think he can work against popular dive assassins such as Zed and Talon by taking Exhaust, and since they have to hop on top of you, you can slow them with E and mess them up.

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

I buy Rylais second item, it's not so bad. If you land a single Q, it's not unreasonable to be able to chain Qs. I think he can work against popular dive assassins such as Zed and Talon by taking Exhaust, and since they have to hop on top of you, you can slow them with E and mess them up.

But the thing is. You have to live to Rylias. You have to finish item 3027 or you don't have sustain or any potential to fight in an all in. That's 2700g + 3200g just to be able to have a chance without boots and dorans. You see the problem right? At this point most mids have already invested enough to basically chunk you into leaving range after 1 rotation. And if not a single one of your lanes is ahead, you can't really ult without potentially stealing from other lanes and you can't really follow most mid laners as you can't duel them and don't have readily available green wards to light your path.

Jefftiffy1 votes

Bump

Jefftiffy1 votes

Any thoughts on Karthus especially considering Riot has just announced they are looking at nerfing/reworking item 3116 which is the 1 item that keeps his kit together.

More from Gameplay

More by Jefftiffy