I swear the majority of this playerbase needs a basic tutorial on building teamcomps

freepointzs·Jun 14, 2015·96 votes·7,553 views

So many games are lost just in champ select. And it's not even about one team getting more power (OP) picks. It's that there's absolutely no team synergy between their champions

Here's a basic checklist of things you should have in your team -cc -some semblance of engage or disengage -someone tanky -mixed damage so they can't simply itemize your to death.

This is basic stuff. I'm not even talking about more advanced things like building a specific comp like a poke comp, wombo/hard engage, pick comp, etc.

Like take my last game for instance. Our first three picks are Irelia top, shaco mid, and vayne adc. Our last pick asks for mid so I decide to go support. Looking at the three current picks I see that we could use a tank since our jungler is an assassin. So I lock in alistar. Now it should be blatantly obvious that we have no AP and choosing a mage would work wonders. Rather, our last pick locks in varus. An AD who works well with poke comps but who has absolutely no synergy with our champions. Needless to say the game went horribly as the enemy team just got armour (didn't help that he was a first time varus).

So please guys I am begging you....think about team comps when choosing your champion. Specifically if your a lower pick since you have the information of what champions we have. Because building a teamcomp that is trash just makes the game harder for the team regardless of skill level.

134 Comments

BastionKrossJun 14, 201520 votes

It's a complex issue.

Picking a champion with great synergy with your team is important. Team comps can have very glaring weaknesses that can be easily exploited if the team isn't put together right. The problem is two-fold:

Fun vs Teamwork
Skill Limit

Imagine a scenario where the last pick is jungle, and he's been just itching to play jungle Fiddlesticks . Maybe he's played a few games before this, and couldn't get jungle so he wasn't fully happy with the experience. But now is his chance to throw some crows. His teammates pick their champs, and it turns out that the tankiest person on the team is the top lane Quinn . The team needs a tanky jungler to round out this composition.

Should that last pick go Fiddle, or pick a tanky champ? He'll have a lot less fun playing something else, but the team composition would be better. What is more important at that point, having the best chance to win, or having fun?
Should the jungler pick Fiddle, who he is comfortable and confident with, or a tanky jungler that he may have tried once or twice before? He'll be more effective as Fiddle, but the team comp would be better with someone more robust.

The answers to those questions aren't the clearest. It's heavily dependent on the situation, but it'll also be different on a player to player basis. Some players value fun above all things and would pick that Fiddle no matter what. Some players would value winning more and pick a tanky jungler because that's what would give a strong team composition and a better chance at victory. Some people would say to always play the champion you're best with. Some people would urge you to learn multiple champs for this very reason.

The best solution is communication. As soon as the player got the jungle role, he should inform his team that he's best with Fiddle so the other roles know what to expect of his champion pick. Maybe the top laner picks Renekton instead, or the support grabs Leona in response. Now the jungler has Fiddle and a strong composition; the best of both worlds. This is something that should absolutely happen every single game if you're part of a team or premade. You should have a rough idea of how the composition will look before you queue up. Leave some wiggle room for counter picks, of course. However, this level of communication is very difficult to achieve in SoloQ. Teambuilder can assuage this to a certain degree.

MandaariJun 14, 20152 votes

If you're itching to play a specific champion in a specific role then go play teambuilder. Seriously, we need more junglers queuing.

T RexHasTinyArmsJun 14, 20152 votes

This post seems to contradict itself. If you're really good on fiddle and not as strong on other stuff there is a decent chance that regardless of if it's more fun or not, the team stands a better chance of winning w/ fiddle bc they will have a good jg instead of an average one. Maybe it's just bias since the champ I play most is pretty flexible between poke/engage/counter engage, but honestly in low elo, being good at a champ can create enough strength that item advantage out weighs the comp advantage.

BastionKrossJun 14, 20152 votes

It's more of a hypothetical scenario than an analysis. Just take the scenario to imply that despite being a kick ass Fiddle, the player couldn't carry his tankless team to victory because of composition weaknesses. On the other hand, even if he's a crappy tanky jungler, his presence in team fights as a punching bag and source of cc enable the other players on his team to carry him to a victory. He either has fun, or he wins.

While this situation is more prevalent at low elo, it can apply to any level of play, normal or ranked. This even extends to any mode where you pick your own champion, like Dominion or 3v3; and even to other games where teamwork is important. Any event you seemingly find yourself in this situation where you can either play what you will have fun with, or sacrifice for your team.

Summonerrr 1Jun 14, 201514 votes

{quoted}

So many games are lost just in champ select. And it's not even about one team getting more power (OP) picks. It's that there's absolutely no team synergy between their champions

Here's a basic checklist of things you should have in your team -cc -some semblance of engage or disengage -someone tanky -mixed damage so they can't simply itemize your to death.

This is basic stuff. I'm not even talking about more advanced things like building a specific comp like a poke comp, wombo/hard engage, pick comp, etc.

Like take my last game for instance. Our first three picks are Irelia top, shaco mid, and vayne adc. Our last pick asks for mid so I decide to go support. Looking at the three current picks I see that we could use a tank since our jungler is an assassin. So I lock in alistar. Now it should be blatantly obvious that we have no AP and choosing a mage would work wonders. Rather, our last pick locks in varus. An AD who works well with poke comps but who has absolutely no synergy with our champions. Needless to say the game went horribly as the enemy team just got armour (didn't help that he was a first time varus).

So please guys I am begging you....think about team comps when choosing your champion. Specifically if your a lower pick since you have the information of what champions we have. Because building a teamcomp that is trash just makes the game harder for the team regardless of skill level.

In a game with pretty much no actual quality tutoring whatsoever, this isn't really the problem. The problem is that riot WON'T put in place a feature that is good at tutoring. Like, any kind of tutoring. They mainly just explain how the game is supposed to work at it's super basic level and throw you to the wolves.

You want a good feature? Something like a mentor mode gametype would work wonders. You get a PvP match going that's essentially statically paced and requires communication between two vets and 3 newbies on each team. You know, people that WANT to learn and people that WANT to teach put together, eh? Stupid Idea, It could never work.

Just kidding. Vets have obviously played the roles the newbies are learning, and give them tips. The mode could have systems in place to punish Vets that use the system to abuse or troll newbies and rewards for people that actually use it to teach people that don't know fundementals valuable lessons. I know I'd jump all over a master mentor border, banner, or icon, etc.

AKA Basically every sportsmanlike player ever.

ModKnightsKemplarJun 14, 20151 votes

I worry that this would look like Riot "controlling the meta" too much. One of the things I really like about LoL is that Riot is pretty hands off about how to play the game. These "rules" have cropped up from the player base, not our Riot Overlords.

Would it be possible for a system like the one you're suggesting to work? Maybe. But I worry it could cause a lot of problems for us in the future. There ARE online tutorial videos for people who want to improve. I'm okay with that.

BluePolarizerJun 15, 20153 votes

I disagree. Putting supports mid should've been a player decision - trade damage and burst for higher utility in order to peel for a hypercarry comp, but if your hypercarry can't actually carry, then you fked yourself with a low damage mid. But Riot nerfed all the supports such that they can't go mid.

It wasn't a player decision to not take supports mid. It was due to nerfs.

ModKnightsKemplarJun 16, 20151 votes

I don't think I see it the way you do.

Riot nerfed mids who were oppressive laners. There's no problem with putting a support lulu mid, as long as she doesn't auto-win the lane, too. Because then she's a carry. And that's a real world example; in her most popular phase, she won mid automatically, against pretty much ALL the other viable picks.

That's ridiculous, and I'm glad they nerfed her.

ApolloclipticJun 16, 20151 votes

you're both right, many support mids that got nerf'd were TOO powerful. because supports are fundamentally designed to have strong early game and low reliance on gold. But a few appeared that became god-like when they DID have the gold.

That said, other supports were absolutely FINE and got nerf'd. Personally i think Taric is a good example. His top lane wasn't impossible or OP. His low mobility and lack of burst meant that while he could sustain all day, he couldn't push or secure kills as easily, and would often need TP to be helpful to his team at all (unlike champs like Nasus who can back door all day, or Panth who can quickly help team then jump back to his lane to protect his tower). They nerf'd him because they didn't want him top.

The balance between support champs having strong early games and scaling weak into late (as in, they should have worse scaling but still have damage matched with utility should they want it) has only been reached with a few champs. Others needed to get gutted because it was hard, for some reason, to stop them getting too powerful once fed. Champs like Lulu or let's say Bard. If their kits provided mid level damage they would be unstoppable forces in balanced teams. But instead of making their damage "less" they almost completely take it away, making them ENTIRELY dependant on others. I like to think of strategy games like war, even your support or medic can defend themselves, but in most cases a full build zero cd support, would lose to a crippled, slow'd 20% hp adc or top laner (or mid if the mid laner was not on CD's)

Spacesuit SpiffJun 14, 201512 votes

"i shouldn't have to adjust to my team, my team should have to adjust to me!" -all 5 players

this is basically how I ended up maining engage tanks. if you're first pick and you don't pick an engage tank, your team will have no engage, and no tank because everyone wants to do damage and carry,

TotalJerkJun 14, 201512 votes

I hate playing engage tanks in soloQ. About 90% of the time you can expect your team to just watch you die after you go in, then shout at you for "trying to 1v5"

T RexHasTinyArmsJun 16, 20151 votes

So true.

Also the games where you get a bad tank and they keep doing the reverse, and raging at their team for not following up on their "amazing 5 man amumu ulti" where they flashed and then q to an enemy, land the ulti, and completely ignored the fact that only one player on the team other than them has any gap closer, and mid and ADC both just blew flash getting away from the enemy in the last skirmish.

Oh well, that one game in 10 where the tank waits till dmg is in position to join them before the tank engages, and the dmg reacts as soon as the tank goes in and gets the ace before the cc and follow up cc end........ that game makes it all worth it :D

Only Play DariusJun 14, 20151 votes

Maining engage tanks sounds like torture in low elo. Nothing like you landing a 5 man stun and your team running away.

IvarTheBonelessJun 16, 20151 votes

You'd think that would be the worst part but it's actually your team yelling at you to engage at terrible times like they are better at the champ you main than you, after you've single handedly won lane phase with your engages.

I've actually ult'd in base just so it would be on cool down so they would stfu.

ApolloclipticJun 16, 20151 votes

lol I'd never got that far, but as a Galio main I know your pain. When the enemy jumps on you, stuns you, knocks you up and petrifies you and your team is saying "why no ulti?" Then when all the CC is burned, and your W is on CD, you drop you 5 man taunt against a team that is like "wtf why is he still alive" At this point you realise that your team left 10 seconds ago, and you just get slaughtered 5v1 (maybe getting 1 kill, or 2 kills if you had a good lane phase). Same goes for Orianna, everyone yells at you to Ulti, but NO ONE is peeling for you, so the second you are in range you die. Or I place the ball on Wukong who walks around in a circle, then use it to save the adc and THEN he goes in, and complains that I didn't ulti???

I mostly use team fight champs like that (lulu, Vel, even Leona) but in SoloQ when your team don't understand your champ and think AOE Ultis = free win, expect you to spam it and don't react when you land them perfectly. That's why I use Anivia now. Her ulti is pretty much up the whole teamfight so no one can bitch. Once my team engage 3 v 5, and died horribly of course. I couldn't save them but was on my way, so when the enemy turned on me, I killed one, dissapeared into the jungle, baited LB while standing on my ulti. Killed her with the Q (as it hits her while she is travelling towards you - lb tip) while Vi is trying to get in on me, dying to my Ulti and E. Got Kog Maw and support (alister is think) on me, deleted their hp, but Alister pushed me back while Kog bombarded. Entered eggnivia form, when my jungle finally showed up, got a double kill. 2 v 5 victory. Can't do that with my other mains because you just get kited or jumped on for immediate death

YormaughmJun 14, 20155 votes

{quoted}

"i shouldn't have to adjust to my team, my team should have to adjust to me!"

Translate that into Latin and we can have the official Solo Q motto.

treeking013Jun 15, 20153 votes

Translate that into Latin and we can have the official Solo Q motto.

Ad ipsum non urna ut mi sit amet urna me

Acording to Google Translate, anyhoo. :)

Ariel the CruelJun 14, 20156 votes

Here's a basic checklist of things you should have in your team -cc -some semblance of engage or disengage -someone tanky -mixed damage so they can't simply itemize your to death.

Vayne top Graves mid Quinn Jungle Varus ADC Jinx support

All requirements met.

ApolloclipticJun 16, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Kg2hZ1NJ,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2015-06-14T17:23:18.293+0000)

-cc -some semblance of engage or disengage -someone tanky -mixed damage so they can't simply itemize your to death.

top mid Jungle ADC support

All requirements met.

I'd like to offer a much better scenario

Urgot top (supress enemy AP carry) Quinn still jungle (AOE BURST, blind enemy ADC) KogMaw mid (long range poke and aoe slow) Varus adc (catch the whole enemy team after) Ashe support (slows and stuns the whole enemy team)

that team ACTUALLY works. And the enemy simply won't see it coming

Sona PingJun 14, 20154 votes

A. What do you expect? There is no tutorial features. B. It's not a "problem" that other players are not doing what you instruct them to do.

Terrible ChesterJun 14, 20154 votes

The "You must carry games yourself to get out of [insert Tier here]" mentality has been fed to us for so long that solo Q has devolved into 5 City States, each thinking they are Sparta, being asked to work together. If instead the idea of team work and collaboration had been pushed equally as hard maybe WE (I include myself in this, I'm no better than anyone else) would actually look at what's laid out before us in champ select before locking in our pick.

But that doesn't happen, because I. Am. Sparta. And I will carry you, and there's no way I can trust you to carry me.

VentiraJun 15, 20155 votes

That's how I feel about anyone who takes my role (support) I just can't trust them with it. I can't, countless times have I given up my most powerful, experienced role due to either it being a duo, or just plain ol' pick order and the support is the WORST.

Spacesuit SpiffJun 15, 20151 votes

There's basically 2 ways to climb: that and playing whatever role ppl suck at in your current elo. That's why even though you can't really carry as adc in bronze bc of zero peel, bronze games are mostly decided by which adc runs around facechecking the enemy jungle all lategame, so playing adc will save your team from that.

T RexHasTinyArmsJun 16, 20151 votes

Are you honestly saying w/ a straight face that you don't think you could hard carry a low/mid bronze game as ADC? You may not be an ADC main, but I feel like at your elo you prob know positioning well enough that if push came to shove you could kite hard enough to survive w/ out peel vs low/mid bronze opponents. Yeah it might limit you to only a couple ADCs that you could play since you HAVE to be able to keep yourself alive w/out any peel, but I think most plat or diamond players who aren't terrible ADC players could do it. Am I wrong? (Yes I am saying that if you're close to the level in low elo, say maybe silver 2-4 level skill trying to carry bronze 1 from ADC every game w/ no duo, it may be impossible, but if you're significantly better it should be doable.)

Spacesuit SpiffJun 16, 20151 votes

Ya I suppose I was hasty there, it is doable, especially since anyone who knows how to poke properly will immediately win lane in low elo. It's just more difficult than getting fed as someone who doesn't rely on the team as much, as you said.

I suppose I'm just salty about my last attempt to learn adc, where I got run over by a Hecarim Zed every teamfight (partly bc of the typical lack of cc in norms teams, partly because I can't adc for shit)

T RexHasTinyArmsJun 17, 20151 votes

Lol yeah, I got so salty about trying to adc properly I deleted my rune page for it, and then eventually had riot delete the adc champs from my account so I can't get mystery skins for them. Lol. I just go heimer Bot if no one can adc since he pushes towers really well and you can win by mid game.

T RexHasTinyArmsJun 14, 20153 votes

I think part of the issue is that the majority of the layer base is in bronze and silver. I started bronze III this season and am silver I now, and I can tell you first hand that yeah team comp can win games, but it's not that important. The number of games I have won because of a good team comp choice (or a bad one from my opponents) is pretty small compared to the number of games I have won this season because of strong players even w/ a bad team comp.

Because of this I know that at least personally I'm more likely to pick a strong champ of mine if I don't make the comp extra terrible, and only pick for team comp in fringe circumstances. I mean, malphite vs an all AD enemy team that relies on AAs for damage on at least 2 of the 3 main damage sources is definitely worth picking just to have a good comp vs the enemy, but most games I'd rather go Heimer top even if we have no tank on our team, bc I'm good w/ him. Turns out that at least in bronze and most of silver taking a champ you're good w/ and putting down a lot of pressure can win enough games to climb, even if there might be better picks you could make for the team comp.

ApolloclipticJun 16, 20151 votes

you make some good points. Champs like Heimer kinda break the mould though. Heimer can peel as good as many tanks, so having him isn't necessarily as "bad" as say picking Vayne top when you have no tanks. Or picking a champ like Vel or Anivia if you have no Peel on the team. You say "niche" conditions, but I think you probably have more common sense than most. It's MORE common that a loss is from bad picks then you seem to be saying. Cause some losses to a strong enemy (like Jynx) happened because no one on your team can get close to her. It seems like she is just too strong, but sometimes just one champ can make the difference. I find games a little boring with some of my best champs, but every once in a while I will still pick them. If enemy has Ezreal or Cait and I am support, I will often go Braum. His unbreakable completely wrecks their ulti's and most of their early game combat potential. If enemy has picked Yasuo or Lb (and especially if they ALso have ez/vayne or Riven/wukong top) I will grab Maokai for his Anti mobility skills. He may be dependant on others following his engages, but he is probably the best champ to have against hyper mobile teams, not just cause of his W, but all his skills help. Mitigating their burst, knocking them up when they try to burst a carry and a long range slow that I can drop on the path, so when LB blinks back to her pad, she is immediately slowed so someone can catch up to her. (And he builds righteous glory quite well).

tl;dr I guess what i'm saying is while you don't need a "perfect" composition, sometimes you just need ONE champ to effectively give your team a chance at victory. When I am forced support and my team picks Quinn top, Shaco jungle, Yasuo mid and Vayne adc, I need to pick a high CC, AP tank, and Zac support might not be the best bet. In these cases I just go with the flow and pick a support I'm good with. Go Full AP Velkoz I won't do much as the only tank with no items and no other cc, but as a long range nuking cc machine, I can essentially cover my whole team while the 4 assassins clean up (Last time I did that I had 60K damage and I think 1 kill - perfectly giving kills to the horde of assassins on my team, but doing enough damage to the tanks and enemy engagers that they had to focus me before any of the other carries)

T RexHasTinyArmsJun 16, 20151 votes

Yeah, and I mean I think it starts to shift based on how high up the ladder you move, but if you're good at something you can win doing pretty much anything in low elo. I've won a couple games in ranked w/ heimer bot lane bc people locked something late refusing to support or communicate or whatever (3-1 as heimer support I think, and 1-0 as heimer mage bot lane instead of ADC), and Heimer bot lane is def not strong. The absolute best example is one where I said I couldn't ADC (just stopped doing it bc I'm not good at it and don't enjoy it enough to be willing to practice) and I had said I would take an AP champ w/ high damage and push potential bot if no one would ADC and we just needed AD champs somewhere in top/mid/jg so we weren't all AP. 4th pick pulls up Leona after having asked to support, so I assume they are serious about no one being willing to ADC so I lock heimer and everyone gets pissed. The team raged at me and they did pretty poor to start, but we came back eventually in part bc my lane was even/a little ahead even w/ support heimer, and I stole something stupid like 3 dragons and had a ton of damage to champs bc the other team didn't focus me till mid game when they realized I wasn't trolling and was getting fed and hurting them. Yeah an ADC is good, but my team stands a better chance of winning if I play something else, and even as heimer support, I'm good enough at him that I win more than I lose w/ him lol.

ApolloclipticJun 16, 20151 votes

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. I don't "like" adc, as a role or in any sense, so I don't want to practice it, so i will never be great with it, or even that good. I have a few "emergency" champs like Kalista, Jynx and Lucian to which I can somewhat use, but I don't have the courage to go an AP champ or bruiser instead :P That said, i often use Urgot if I'm forced to adc. I know I can 1v1 any other adc, and can play safe if outmatched

T RexHasTinyArmsJun 16, 20151 votes

I thought about picking up urgot just to have an adc lol. Heimer is a weird option since he can actually push towers really fast even though he is ap. I've also done j4 as part of double bruiser bot since the flag helps push after fights and you have to win early with double bruiser.

KivolanJun 14, 20153 votes

Yes. This so much.

I can usually tell when we have no hope in a match, and those are the ones I tend to dodge.

People also need to learn about pick order. If you first pick something stupidly easy to counter, of COURSE you're going to get counterpicked so that you're completely useless.

I always ask if I can pick for the Jungler / Support first. It's so much better if they get "countered" than my top Malphite getting destroyed by a Cho Gath or my Ahri being locked down and vaporized by Annie.

T RexHasTinyArmsJun 16, 20151 votes

Maybe it's why I'm still in silver, but I find that I do pretty well against the counters to the champ I main. I play Heimer a ton, and a few times I've played against a counter that I legit couldn't do much against bc they knew how to use the counter, but most people in low elo just pick counters bc it "gives them an easy lane." The number of times I've played vs yasuo as Heimer and had him not wind wall my ult in low silver/high bronze is staggering. In high silver they tend to start doing it, but often still don't save the cd for it, or don't wind wall the stun bc they want to save it for my ult, and you can ult w w/out fear of wind wall once you land the e. Generally though in low elo the rate at which people know how to play the counter well is so low that the "counter" match ups are some of the easiest for me bc I know exactly what I have to do to not lose and it makes it way easier.

PS Except for vlad. I fucking hate that bastard even when he is bad he is so fucking annoying.

warpenguin555Jun 14, 20152 votes

yes we do. i would love one. The amount of people picking Yasuo into team with no other knockups is getting on my nerves. its not just that, but i see it far too much

AbyssphereJun 14, 20152 votes

I don't get why everyone is pinning the blame on Riot here. A lot of people know how making a good team composition works so it's obvious the info you need can be easily found out - the fault lies with the players who lack all common sense, not the game.

People have no idea what a good team comp is but I don't feel like it's Riot's job to teach them one. Stuff like basic champion synergy/weakness covering should be obvious necessities in any strategic game.

A Miss FortuneJun 14, 20152 votes

I just played a 5 man support comp.

Zyra Jungle Lulu Mid Morgana Top Thresh ADC Braum Support

Kinda funny because they have all of what you listed, but the team comp didn't work that well.

ArveanorJun 14, 20152 votes

You don't have any real AD threat for killing off tanks / structures, but otherwise it's not a terrible comp.

A Miss FortuneJun 14, 20154 votes

Don't hate on Thresh ADC especially when he builds a Shiv and 5 Infinity Edges.

Junsui AoiJun 15, 20152 votes

AD lulu would have balance out the AP/AD bit and it might have worked better. Yes. Yes I have seen it work.

ApolloclipticJun 16, 20151 votes

Add a Kayle or a Taric even Teemo (who was originally a support champ, not sure if it still says that) and you would have had better compo

Kayle jungle and Taric Top woul have been better, or Kayle mid, as she can fill an ADC like role, and any team with Taric AND Braum would be so unkillable

OshGoshBoGoshJun 14, 20152 votes

When playing ranked. Playing your strengths is often greater than picking based on your idea of the perfect team. CC is great don't get me wrong, but if you have someone picking a champion just for CC and has no idea how to combo properly, or build strategically you already lost. Also, to say itemization will win out is a flawed concept. There are primary AD comps that win games just fine, even past 40 minutes. I think a lot of your points are viable, but don't encompass the game properly and using it as a general rule of thumb would only be effective at low elo.

Majority of games in solo/duo queue can be won by a quick 15 minute snowball if you don't throw (in the current meta). Unless versus an insane late game team you should never lose following a snowball.

Onimus TerlainJun 14, 20152 votes

I don't think it would hurt if, on the champion select screen, there was a basic formula similar to what you have here.

And, as champions are selected, the screen would automatically check off each part based on the champion selected.

For example, if the 4 major checklist points were hard CC (2), Engage (1), AP damage (1) and AD damage (1), selecting Nautilus would check off one hard CC and one engage.

Each champion could be assigned a value for these checklists, so that their selection would automatically fulfill the requirements of the formula when selected.

The game wouldn't require that you fill it in, but if some parts are not filled in by the 4th pick, it could maybe remind you that your team has no AP damage, or something like that. Then if you choose to ignore it, fine. But at least then people could gradually learn how to build a team.

This could go even further and allow you to "select" or "vote" on a specialized formula, like poke comp, pick comp etc. And those would have their own recipes for success. If 4 people don't agree to one selection (much like surrendering), it would revert to the classic formula above.

Obviously, this is a pipe dream, but it would be a relatively easy way to teach the community without requiring everyone to watch a video or series of videos to learn about team comp. It would lengthen the champ select time a little, but not by much and it's benefits could outweigh that small downside.

Unfortunately, I doubt Riot would ever do it, because they firmly (and foolishly) believe that meta is not something that should be enforced. Play what makes you happy, even if it makes no sense.

It Hertz When IPJun 14, 20151 votes

Sounds good, but it'd make champion select take even longer.

Onimus TerlainJun 14, 20152 votes

Yea, that is the major downside. Apart from the manpower required to code it correctly.

I just think it would be a very intuitive and streamlined way of teaching team building without forcing anything on people.

ApolloclipticJun 16, 20151 votes

The first part of your suggestion wouldn't slow things down or be hard to code, the second part however...

AkesgerothJun 14, 20151 votes

This is the gameplay and balance board, not the bitching and moaning board.

SunriseSkaterKidJun 15, 20151 votes

Team comp: Mid: Anivia jungle: LeeSin adc: Ashe Sup: Annie

LeeSin okay we are sort of squishy, if you can pick a tank top

Anivia yeah pick Maokai or something so we have insane lock down!

Top laner: alright I'm on it!

(Locks Fiora )

Happens every game.

Champion SkinJun 16, 20151 votes

It isn't that bad You could have Fiora split push as Anivia + Ashe could probably keep the enemy at bay and Lee Sin could use his ult to disengage if needed be

Or it could probably work out with an Annie initiate + Anivia stun or something and with Fiora + Ashe and Anivia hopefully the enemy team will die rather quickly

SunriseSkaterKidJun 16, 20151 votes

It isn't bad if you go even or win lane. But if you fall a little behind everything turns to shit. Any comp w.o a tank works like that

ApolloclipticJun 16, 20151 votes

To be honest, On paper it sounded horrible, but that team would be IMPOSSIBLE to stop lol

You have 3 AOE stuns, and lee's Kick is an AOE knock when aimed right. You also have two perma slows (ashe and Anivia are among the hardest combo's in this game). When you pack two perma slows on top of 3 aoe stuns and massive AOE damage (annie, Anivia and Fiora) the enemy would die so swiftly. If you engage, (and land) the ashe ulti will lead to a very swift ace. On the other hand, save ashe ulti or annie for disengage, as they are very fast. Followed by Anivia's group stun and aoe slow + damage and the enemy can't do much. Full build anivia can shut down even bosses like Nasus. Twice in my last game I just put up the ulti and baited him around it while he tried to land two Q's (it's amazing what a constant slow, and AOE stun and a massive impassable terrain can do :)