diana's rework should make more use of the moonlight debuff

Big Lincoln··52 votes·2,532 views

seems wasteful to only have it for the QRR combo

56 Comments

WinTheWarOnPants5 votes

I don't think so. I think it's a very clever and fun way to let her use a targeted dash multiple times. I'm not saying that it can't be improved, i just don't think it can. I also don't think it's a waste since it's doing exactly what it's supposed to do and it does well(just compare her to Akali to see how much better and more balanced Diana's ult is). If there is something in her kit that has more potential i think it's her E, or W.

Blåbæret2 votes

Diana doesn't need a rework. Waste of resources.

Chimp Joker2 votes

I think she needs a small scale rework.

LunarStrike1 votes

They gave her increased AS, Lower Cooldown on Q Lowered mana on W and mana regen on passive proc.

I'm sure she'll be fine

Big Lincoln13 votes

this isn't her rework

LunarStrike4 votes

no, but it's a significant change to her passive and 3 of her abilities. She doesnt need a rework, she's fine. Her low winrate was due to people not knowing how to lane with her. these buffs will only make her stronger

Sexy Jack Rabbit14 votes

That's not even relevant? OP is talking about her eventual rework that the balance team confirmed is happening.

LunarStrike2 votes

She won't need a rework if this patch goes well, is what im saying. Her Passive got a mini rework, Her Q was buffed, her W was buffed, and her E was changed.

I don't think you understand the significance of a rework. Riot will only resort to a rework if a champion literally has no hopes of being balanced with just numerical changes (like Urgot, Eve, Galio). By buffing her, and changing her passive up, riot is showing that they're still playing around with her.

Diana isn't supposed to have more mobility with her ult; because she's a diver, not an assassin. Her W and Passive provide her with enough Sustained damage (next patch more than ever since she'll be able to proc it more)

I'm not saying she doesn't need a rework, but it's too early to tell. I've mained her for years and have almost 400k mastery pts throughout my 3 accounts, a champion doesn't need a rework just because they're lackluster, because some, like me, might find them fun (and hopefully riot will prioritize the opinions of those who main her and actually play her, rather than those who may just play her every once in a few weeks).

Lady Hammerlock1 votes

{quoted}

She won't need a rework if this patch goes well, is what im saying. Her Passive got a mini rework, Her Q was buffed, her W was buffed, and her E was changed.

I don't think you understand the significance of a rework. Riot will only resort to a rework if a champion literally has no hopes of being balanced with just numerical changes (like Urgot, Eve, Galio). By buffing her, and changing her passive up, riot is showing that they're still playing around with her.

Diana isn't supposed to have more mobility with her ult; because she's a diver, not an assassin. Her W and Passive provide her with enough Sustained damage (next patch more than ever since she'll be able to proc it more)

I'm not saying she doesn't need a rework, but it's too early to tell. I've mained her for years and have almost 400k mastery pts throughout my 3 accounts, a champion doesn't need a rework just because they're lackluster, because some, like me, might find them fun (and hopefully riot will prioritize the opinions of those who main her and actually play her, rather than those who may just play her every once in a few weeks).

I'm still bothered how they didn't just go for some simple numerical changes

As much as I enjoy the look of the changes(a new form of skill expression in form spell spacing to get most possible AS out of her passive makes me happy)

It would've been simpler to remove the AS bonus on her passive(or reduce it), increase her base AS so she scales better with attack speed

Mana regen/mana pool buff could've been nice, or at least dropping early mana cost on(which is happening thankfully)

Not much else honestly, she's overall solid in lane and jungle as long as you are good at her. In some certain match ups she can even survive top lane.

LunarStrike1 votes

theyre giving her a mana regen on passive buff

LordForrest4 votes

They released her with a low base attack speed and bonus attack speed on her passive specifically because they didn't want abuse cases with item 3115 item 3124 item 3091 on her.

So I don't think they are going to give her a higher base attack speed. And before you say they are giving her an AS steroid in her kit, it is conditional, has counterplay, and skill expression versus just building multiple AS and AP items and just right clicking someone to death.

Ralanr3 votes

Shouldn't she want to build those items though?

LordForrest1 votes

Yes and I love building Nashors on her, but I also know just how horrifying a 2.5 attack speed Diana is. URF you are both a blessing and a curse.

NichtHurz1 votes

Yeah, when we still had the super broken AoE Guinsoo's I've played her onhit with Gunblade, one time I just 1v4'd the enemy team without being superfed, just by haying reached a certain point in my build.

Lady Hammerlock2 votes

{quoted}

They released her with a low base attack speed and bonus attack speed on her passive specifically because they didn't want abuse cases with item 3115 item 3124 item 3091 on her.

So I don't think they are going to give her a higher base attack speed. And before you say they are giving her an AS steroid in her kit, it is conditional, has counterplay, and skill expression versus just building multiple AS and AP items and just right clicking someone to death.

Good point

And I said I enjoyed her new form of skill expression, and yes is conditional, has counterplay and is far easier to balance(just adjust numbers on E if it becomes overbearingly overtuned)

overall excited for next patch

LordForrest1 votes

Eh, I'll admit that I actually forgot you mentioned that. Going to chalk that up to being tired. My bad.

WinTheWarOnPants1 votes

(like Urgot, Eve, Galio)

I have been summoned to defend M'lady!!

(and hopefully riot will prioritize the opinions of those who main her and actually play her, rather than those who may just play her every once in a few weeks).

Oh, I'm sure they will :/ kappa

Nuparu2 votes

"opinion of those who main her"

lol condolences from Rengar mains who knew we were fucked when they gave him a cleanse, AoE and a guaranteed critical strike but were subjected to insane "balance" anyways :^)

Unvictus1 votes

She IS getting a rework, whether you think she needs one or not. Riot already said she is, and these are just balance changes to hold her over until it's her turn. Better come to terms with it now.

Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votes

forget it... All point and clic will be reworked. That's say most divers need to be reworked. There no game where u wan't Diana more than another divers, and just this is enough to rework her.

Zaghyr1 votes

Riot specifically said that these changes are intended to put Diana in a better position until her ACTUAL rework, which riot has said they WILL do in the future. It's not a matter of if they will or not, because they already said they will. These changes are to put her in a better spot until then.

Btw, the 'reworks' you listed, are all full VGU updates, not small scale reworks. The changes she is getting are on nearly the same level as Rek'sai, Rammus, and Aatrox. Aatrox specifically got his changes to PUT HIM IN A BETTER SPOT until his EVENTUAL full rework, just like Diana right now.

Edit: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/2WWRYInA-quick-gameplay-thoughts-june-30 As far as Meddler is concerned, they are EXPECTING to do a bigger rework for her, and again, these changes are to tide her over. Whether you want to believe it or not, Diana needs a damn rework. Just because you main her and are personally okay with her, doesn't mean that she is OK.

She has always had the problem of being a Diver/Assassin that doesn't know what she wants to be. She created as a Diver, and played as an Assassin. Now, with the new items and anti-burst potential, Assassin Diana isn't as good as it used to be, and building her as a fighter for a more duelist and diver heavy playstyle isn't that good anyway. Her intended roles, itemization, and kit do not mesh well together atm. This more or less forces her to be everyone of these at the same time, and excel at none, which is not healthy. item 3027 item 3115 item 3020 item 3157 item 3135 item 3089 is her current build highest % win build on champion.gg, and this is honestly close to what I build on her myself. This build gives her extremely high burst, strong dueling power, and tankiness. Even with this build, her winrate (taken from plat) for mid is 46.58% and for jg it is 44.25%.

Diana needs help, a lot of it, and whether you like it or not, needs a larger scale rework than the changes she is currently getting.

LunarStrike1 votes

also, no one confirmed it's happening. Meddler literally said, and I quote, "We have no plans for her as of now" - this was only like a week ago.

Saying this for the 3rd time, the fact that they're buffing her means that riot are still trying to find a balancing point for her as of now. If they don't, they MAY take it further and go for a rework, but there is 0 evidence proving that riot have began speculating her rework, unless you can find proof to prove me otherwise

Glory ln Death2 votes

From Meddler's Friday post:

Diana

As you'll see on the PBE today we're continuing to explore Diana changes in testing. Those aren't intended to be a full fix for Diana's issues (we still expect to do a small update to her gameplay at some point), but are instead intended to put her in a better spot until then. We think it's likely the eventual direction for Diana includes auto attacking as a meaningful part of her kit, so one of the things we're looking it is ways to make that higher impact later in the game.

It's not just a case of Riot not being sure whether her PBE changes will fix her and prevent a future rework, they don't even intend for these changes to get her where she needs to be. As others have said, this is just a bandaid fix to get her in a slightly better place until they have time to focus on her and give her an actual update.

It's not going to be a full rework - she isn't that messed up - it will be a small update like Heimer, Rek'Sai, Kindred, etc.

Big Lincoln3 votes

right but she's getting a "gameplay update" in the future

and i'd like to see her other spells interact in some way with moonlight. it has potential to be more interesting than just an ult reset, imo

Moonfall Saber1 votes

OK Diana main here. These changes are OK but far from perfect. The main problems that Diana has are as follows (in no order)

1: Diana has huge mana problems. This was addressed by riot in this small rework (yay)

2: Diana has no true damage and or magic penatration. If you compare her to other divers most other divers have true damage or penatration

HOWEVER unlike other divers Diana has good poke.

3: this is probably the biggest issue with Diana is itemization. Diana has a terrible climb for items There are no bruiser ap items for fear of abuse from champs like vlad swain malph and mao, however because of this Diana is screwed out of items that AD divers have access too. For instance, typically a diver will build a black cleaver which gives health armor pen ad and health.

There is nothing even close to equivalent for Ap. Secondly almost every diver or Ap champion has lifesteal. Again Diana cannot build much of lifesteal because of the way her kit is.

4: Passive vs actuall auto attacks. Diana has a really low base attack damage for no reason. Also as well she has a really bad base attack speed (due to her passive) meaning she scales worse with attack speed items.

Riot wanted to rework Diana just to say they did. In all honesty and I bet most Diana players will agree is that all she really needed was 3 base ad plus 1 per level some more base attack speed more mana regen and maybe nerf her q samage but give if magic pen.

Zaghyr1 votes

Honestly, if they want to make her auto attacks more meaningful, I agree they should increase her base AD, which is stupidly low, but I think they should just give new on-hit damage. Their was a rework suggestion I saw some time ago that suggested her passive has on-hit damage, and does increased aoe damage every third. I think they should make her basic attacks do increased damage to Moonlight debuffed targets, and possibly let these auto's extend the duration of the debuff.

Velzard of Koz1 votes

Wait, I though that given there are more significant changes, this is her Gameplay Update. Or was she confirmed to also get Full VGU?

BryanD061 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KaJpQbMt,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-07-03T01:02:59.939+0000)

this isn't her rework

Sorry, I don't follow much of news and stuff. Could you tell me what it is they are planning for her rework, or maybe post a link?

ZapMyHeart1 votes

How else would they make it more useful without making her broken?

She's a diver and does pretty good damage, despite her atrocious mana costs.

LunarStrike1 votes

theyre lowering her mana costs 7.14

morris11 votes

And her passive refunds mana when she hits champions.

ZapMyHeart1 votes

{quoted}

theyre lowering her mana costs 7.14

Praise the MOON!

Nevrankroaton1 votes

I don't think she would need more mechanic for it if Riot push her as an AP bruiser who use AA, it is her way to close the gap and have a way to do it relatively often. By being stronger as an AA opponent, she will will not need to really build mana item and will gain reliable dps along with the usual burst she have, if anything, I think having these buffs can make her go toward a new AP stuff that will make her even less dependent of the moonlight debuff.

If anything, if she got too strong (which could be possible because the buff are huge for diana in lane), make it so moonlighted target take extra damage from her passive proc and lower Q ratio.

PhDs Nuts1 votes

Inb4 they blow the rework and she goes top with item 3153 item 3025 item 3068

Cosmic Warper2 votes

{quoted}

Inb4 they blow the rework and she goes top with item 3153 item 3025 item 3068

that will only happen if the buff her base damages super hard. her base damage output isn't very high, but her ratios are very high. That's one of the reasons why she's so snowbally

aqours fanboy1 votes

She needs a look at from a mana management standpoint not a whole rework.

d1v1ne beast1 votes

can some one tell me why would anyone play Diana over Akali ?

Big Lincoln2 votes

I think she's hotter

Ryuyah1 votes

diana is tankier and has hard cc and has higher scalings on her abilities than akali

Anu3isII2 votes

Diana's Shield makes her a difficult target to burst. Moreover, I heard she has huge base stats, so she is innately Tanky.

Her combo tends to be much faster than Akali's. Moreover, all Diana's damaging abilities deal Magic Damage, so she in theory should deal a lot more Damage than Akali as the game goes on.

Diana has a Ranged Waveclear tool, which also allows her to have a much easier time than Akali vs Ranged opponents in the Early Game. It can also help her in Mid-Late Game Sieges.

And, in terms of Splitpushing, there are very few champions who can compete with Diana.

Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votes

Essentially Akali trades Tankiness for Sustain, meaning she has a much bigger mid-game spike, but a worse late-game. Akali's a fantastic split-pusher now that her passive procs on towers.

Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votes

The same question can be asked the other way around. Why play Akali over Diana ? They both fufill the EXACT same niche, which is exactly why they need reworks. The only difference is that Akali trades Tankiness for Sustain, and that's not enough to individualize these two. Otherwise they're both Hybrid scaling burst champions with high mobility.

Akali is SO HOT1 votes

I think there was a thread back before boards about Diana's rework that became pretty popular that was something like this: -Ult moved to her E -New Ult now brings a dark shadow over a large area and all units inside of it are marked with moonfall. For the duration of the shadow, using dash on targets does not consume moonfall of every other target.

Obviously there were other changes, but I think that was the general theme to the rework idea which people seemed to like. Idk.

Rockm Sockm1 votes

Her early game and jungle clear will suffer from this attack speed change crap.

Tristanl0l1 votes

no. you have mastery 2 on Diana, and the last time you played her was in NOVEMBER. i dont want to be forced on to a different champion after riot changes Diana into a completely different champion with another shitty rework. not every champion needs some revolutionary mechanic that leaves all older champions in the dust, and you clearly know nothing about Diana so leave the discussion to players that have played more than 3 diana games in the past year

Big Lincoln1 votes

up until i read this post i could only imagine being this booty bothered by an opinion on a video game character

thnk u

Tristanl0l2 votes

typical response from someone with 0 insight on what to do with diana besides make her more gimmicky.

Scorpionex1 votes

I would categorize Diana as more of the ap version of nocturne more then anything does a lot of burst but most of the damage comes from autos.

The thing that I want is a little more oomph behind her e because it seems a little lackluster for anything but duelinf

OyddAWqJ5r1 votes

They just need to increase her E cooldown to 120 seconds at all ranks.

26 / 24 / 22 / 20 / 18 seconds on such a powerful basic ability is too short kappa

More from Gameplay

More by Big Lincoln