Was giving nidalee the ability to easily follow up on her spears to much?

deadlychuck··1 votes·705 views

I mean nid spears have always been able to chunk your health, but until the last few patches even with her cougar W, she still took time to follow up said spears with the rest of her damage.

She lost nothing in the way of being able to poke, but gained the ability to engage and execute a marked target that is being hunted by her passive. I mean maybe it's just the direction that riot wanted to go with her, but if you've ever seen someone play a conservative nidalee (basically how she use to be played) it's the same as it has always been in terms of power and difficulty.

I think that putting her back into line would actually be pretty easy.

remove Q and W hunt bonuses. This might sound like a lot, but really it's not when you consider that she will still keep her 30% move speed towards marked targets and her Q is still an execute.

Maybe increase the duration of the hunted effect to 6 or 8 seconds (from 4) to help off set the loss of the instantaneous engagement. Also the reduced damage of the Q could be compensated through the flat damage per rank of the ability.

2 Comments

PrinceOfStorms3 votes

First off, Nidalee used to be like that. She couldn't follow up on her spears (this is pre-rework), and as a result, her spears dealt more damage than they did now. And no, playing a "conservative Nidalee" has, in fact, changed, because back in the day, a "conservative nidalee" didn't even use cougar form in the first place. You just sat at the back of your lane, chucked spears, and hoped that you'd oneshot your lane opponent. Now, Nidalee has to actually close the gap in a relatively short time in order to secure that kill, which means she's predictable. AFAIK you can also see a visual indicator of Pounce's range, so you know when Nidalee is close enough to do the combo, at which point you can prepare the CC.

Secondly, removing the Q and W hunt bonuses would completely invalidate her passive, (minus a slight MS buff) which ONLY empowers Takedown and Pounce.

Now let's just take a moment to think what this change would do to Nidalee. In order to do the maximum amount of damage with her spears, you have to land them from ~1300-1500 range. Cougar form is MELEE ONLY. That means that in order for Nidalee to combo you down, after landing a max-range spear, she has to then run up to you, into pounce range, so that she can do the Pounce-Swipe-Takedown combo to execute. Pounce has a range of 450 (700 for hunted targets). Even removing the ability to Pounce hunted targets would absolutely destroy Nidalee, because now she simply cannot follow up on her spears, and now the Pounce-Swipe-Takedown combo is roughly half of Nidalee's damage, as opposed to 10%, like it was pre-rework.

Thirdly, you state that Nidalee needs to be

put back into line

however fail to realize that Nidalee is fine (arguably slightly weak atm, due to the tank meta).

To support this idea, let me compare Nidalee to other assassins (as she is an assassin, not a mage).

LeBlanc can 100-0 you faster than Nidalee without having to land a slow-moving, easily dodgeable skillshot.

Zed can 100-0 you without needing skillshots period, and doesn't have mana (if NIdalee is spam-chucking spears it eats into her mana really fast)

Nidalee, unlike pretty much EVERY OTHER ASSASSIN IN THE GAME, is hard countered by item 3102, as you should be dodging spears often enough that the banshee's veil passive will block the one that you don't.

Finally, please note that you clearly don't understand how Nidalee even functions in the first place. Nidalee's cougar form abilities scale with points in her R, for example Takedown doesn't scale with points in Javelin Toss. You're also suggesting that Riot nerfs Nidalee's ability to burst people down, yet that is the whole point of her being an assassin, is it not? Do you think that LeBlanc/Zed/Talon/Kha'zix/Ahri/Evelynn/Fizz/Kassadin/Katarina/Nocturne/Rengar's burst is somehow lower than Nidalee's?

Because I can assure you that Nidalee is by no means more powerful than LeBlanc or Zed. So how would you compensate Nidalee, were you on the balance team, for these crippling nerfs that basically prevent her from even using half her kit? Perhaps we should revert Nidalee to her status back in the day, where her spears could 100-0 you in a single hit, but the rest of her kit does practically no damage.

Plus nerfing her ability to follow up on her spears will just make Nidalee players play like they used to, where they just throw out spears, and eventually one will hit you and you get chunked really hard, because removing ~20% of her damage (assuming she can even engage, the amount of damage removed will be more like 50% most of the time) will result in compensatory buffs elsewhere, most likely in her spear damage, as that's her only human form ability that does relevant amounts of damage for an assassin (Bushwhack's purpose -was- to soften up high-health targets with its %current health damage, but that got nerfed even though it had a damage cap vs monsters)

deadlychuck1 votes

Excuse me for apparently not being clear of some of the statements in the initial post.

On your first point, you are completely correct, it is a style in which she almost never utilized her cougar form with the exception of the mobility it offered. Though the ratio of her scaling with her cougar form abilities to her spear was also low relatively. After the rework, her cougar form is a much larger portion of her damage.

On your second point, i'd argue that by increasing the power of the move speed, would allow her to continue to catch up, though increasing the time it takes for her to catch her target. Again as i said in the initial post, the damage of Q could be compensated by a flat increase to the damage. A hard initiation for nidalee just feels misplaced in her kit in my opinion.

The third point.. i'm just going to put this out there first, i do know that cougar Q doesn't scale with spear Q rank, but rather the rank of her ult, to which i was referring to when i said "damage per rank of the ability", i didn't make it explicitly clear i was speaking of the rank of her ult, i thought that it would be understood.

I don't feel that her place in the game is as an assassin, unless they make her kit more trap focused or maybe change her spear to a execution move rather than the initiation move it is now. Unfortunately that would require a complete kit rework, of even larger scale than the recent one. They are trying to force her into an assassin role with the changes to her kit, without changing it in a way which which will affect her identity, which was never an assassin to begin with. Her kit has always played as a mage/figher not assassin/fighter which riot is now trying to enforce, without making the necessary changes to change her identity, instead they just added onto her kit overloading it.

The majority of the rest of your post is based on this identity crisis, which you seem to prescribe to, so i will not bother entertain the idea any further.

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