am i the only one who doesn't like the new champion?

SirTeemoMushroom·Jun 27, 2017·18 votes·1,384 views

like.. there's too much mobility and too much % health dmg . he is a compination of YASUO and ZED on skills

58 Comments

Fuh QueueJun 27, 20176 votes

I'm probably going to one trick him in the jungle. I already snagged the IGN "Kayncer"

MSGme Annie pornJun 27, 20174 votes

I can't wait to trespass inside Annie

SirTeemoMushroomJun 27, 20175 votes

wtf bro

SkelenthJun 28, 20172 votes

https://ci.memecdn.com/9491587.jpg

Tobias BracknerJun 27, 20174 votes

I'M HYPE CUZ DARKIN

Big LincolnJun 27, 20173 votes

I'm not fond of him either

aside from the transformation gimmick he doesn't really strike me as being new or unique, and his kit just feels like a mish-mash of a bunch of abilities that don't go well together

i'm sad that he got lifestealer ult, would have been so nice on a different style of champion

PennsJun 27, 20171 votes

He can walk thru walls tho. And be untargetable.. inside u.

Big LincolnJun 27, 20172 votes

Bard portals through walls, it's much cooler

riot just needs to correct the mistake of making bard a filthy support lol

SirTeemoMushroomJun 27, 20171 votes

yet kayn's E makes you untargetable and noone can follow you unless they flash .. or play talon ;p

PennsJun 27, 20171 votes

Naah m8, he can walk thru walls or just chill in there for the duration. True that he doesnt really have much synergy in his kit tho.

DurzakaJun 28, 20172 votes

Portals might be cooler, but they are much less versatile.

Bard has to go all the way through, whereas Kayn is going to just ignore the wall completely and go wherever you want to chase.

SirTeemoMushroomJun 27, 20171 votes

inception !

BALDG1VEN BOOMERJun 27, 20173 votes

I remember like back in season 5 people where saying how % health dmg is being stuffed into too much kits, well these days it's pretty much in every kit.

As for mobility kek, welcome to the future. Might as well remove terrains in league at this pace.

ModKnightsKemplarJun 27, 20173 votes

Personally, I think he looks like a healthier version of either of those champs. No passive shields, no ridiculous range, manaless poke.

Like yeah, he's a combination of Zed and Yasuo, but he combines all the fun parts and leaves all the terrible parts on the cutting room floor. I love it.

Scary DoorJun 28, 20171 votes

Except for that going through walls and a massive heal with huge ratios thing. You know, other than that... sure... seems fine.

NachingJun 27, 20172 votes

The new champ is horrible and look so unfun and unoriginal.

Where is the old Riot doing amazing champs for everyone?

Fuh QueueJun 27, 20171 votes

Unoriginal? I personally think the design is going to be a blast to play.

NachingJun 27, 20171 votes

Of course, he doesnt have any skill new in this game. He is only a mix of old stuff in one.

Hello Talon, Jayce, Tryndamere, Kalista, Sion.

Lintu PuckJun 27, 20172 votes

I think the percent health stuff is in his Darkin Form

Kai GuyJun 27, 20172 votes

I am reserving judgment for now. Once his numbers are out (base damage scaling etc) and seeing how badly he is punished for swapping into the wrong form/if both forms are viable. After all on paper does not always translate into power.

For example, There is another darkin who is A mannaless AD champion Whos passive, is a steroid triggers just for casting his abilitys that provides them with bonus AD and AS steroid that last as long as he deals or is delt damage (so all of combat) and has a 2nd function as a free miniature GA rez. He has a dash that's 225 units longer then flash, can travel over terrain, with aoe knockup and also aoe damage and good ad scaling His W is a passive that can be toggled between heal with missing hp value or bonus damage, just off a 3 hit autos combo with no cooldown. His E is another AOE ad spell in a long range with a slow that scales per point investment. Finally his ultis a 3rd aoe cast, that provides him am additional AS steroid, bounces auto range, and its got 12 duration. It can even can instantly trigger his passive.

With out all the numbers that kit sounds pretty solid yea?

Sir FuzziJun 27, 20172 votes

Yeah, he's basically just their hand-in-hand release beside Malthy from Heroes of the Storm-- who is honestly even edgier and lamer, he's a fallen angel who was so sad about demons he became 73H REAPER OF SOULS!!111 :OOOOO omgfuh

I don't mind edge given my appeal for Darius, who has some edge of his own stowed away. It's the fact that we're in 2017 and this is the year, this is the year they opt to make a Reaper champ.

Their art team is losing originality. I thought it was maybe okay when they did Xayah and Rakan, but... no, there's something missing. A certain je ne sais quoi that has slowly left them over the seasons.

I think they should do another Caitlyn skin, we ain't got one of those in a while.

noshmoJun 27, 20172 votes

WOAH WOAH WOAH WOAH, wait right there. Did you just diss my main man Malthy??

FIRST OFF, he wasn't sad about demons, he went to pandemonium to search for a higher meaning in the eternal conflict, coming to the ultimate conclusion that man (and I guess demon) must die in order to reach a peace.

(but I thank you since I didn't know Malthael was released in HOTS, I've been waiting for his release since forever)

I feel like I've seen Rito's originality comes in bursts. In 2015, they released Bard, Kindred, and Tahm kench, some of (if not the most) unique champion designs they have ever came up with. They also released Ekko but ehh I feel like he's OK.

But before that, they released stuff like Jinx ,interesting design wise but an utter reproduction of the fabricated randomness and quirkiness so loved from that year.

idk im just hyped b/c it's gonna reveal alot about darkins.

Morgan le FeyJun 28, 20171 votes

I think a lot of the comparison with Malthy is because they both have similar mark-> abilities (Malthy's passive + W and Kayn's R) and overall broad-stroke themes. One of Malthy's ults (Last Rites) has some similar themes to Zed's ult, too, which of course Kayn's is similar to in design as well.

noshmoJun 28, 20171 votes

Yeah, I can see a direct comparison between Malthael's ult and Zed/Kayn's ult. I don't mind his comments about the similarities in Kayn's and Malthael's kits, I was triggered by him calling Malthael lame.

:^( sadbois

I also wanna readdress the whole "The art team is losing their originality." I really can't stand that comment because it's such a typical nostalgic one to make. When you have 136 (about to be 137) separate champions in a game, kits are bound to mix. I'm just tired of hearing the comparisons in such obviously nostalgic context.

i.e. > [{quoted}](name=Sir Fuzzi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KXTyUnki,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2017-06-27T22:02:10.991+0000)

Their art team is losing originality. I thought it was maybe okay when they did Xayah and Rakan, but... no, there's something missing. A certain je ne sais quoi that has slowly left them over the seasons.

This infuriates me because it's such a repeated argument on every medium that I have to see. "Muh show/book/game is only getting worse"

Sir FuzziJun 28, 20171 votes

I virtually beat Malthael by left-clicking and pressing 2 once in a while. I thought he was a joke in-game. The story of him realizing the futility of the struggle of indulgence, knowing that as long as they retained the potential for influence and invasion it would persist beyond their control. Something like that, right? It was a really neat story.

He's just a joke in-game, heh. Poor sucker.

I relate the two as (obv) Reapers, but honestly they're not all that similar in design. Malthael descends upon a target after a war of attrition. Kayn looks like he might have something sort of similar, just with a bit more variety; but Malthy's mechanic is to operate off of the mark and it looks like Kayn wants to force trades to his advantage by deciding how to best transform. Really, the transformation is a big separation already.

I'll be square, I'm adoring Kayn so far. The transform mechanic is gutsy and I like that a lot-- I want to see them make more bold steps away from and declarations on their meta. It's their game; I want them to break some of the rules in it, and create something more interesting from the scraps. Kayn looks like he's going to be a lot of fun, and the idea of his ult already makes me imagine the kind of initiation potential.

I'm actually super hype. My only gripe is admittedly less gripey (It sounds pretty catty in my first post) but really-- 2017 and they've got a scythe-wielding fighter. I don't know if I'm impressed or not... I mean, they made it further than every other company, did they not? As far as I'm aware. Granted, the blue bangs? Yikes. I'm surprised they didn't do that thing where his hair is black and white, that seems like a popular demand. Still, they cover their champs in skins, so the good news is if you don't like the base design (Yi) there's skins that make it less obvious (PROJECT).

The name 'Darkin' is pretty weak, but at least it's just a name. I like the concept of what they've done in lore with them so far (now including Rhaast, which is a killer good name) and I'm looking forward to Kayn's interactions. Aatrox and Trynd is a treat already.

The art team has never really been original. Hear me out.

Part of League's charm in s3, when I joined, to me at least. It was the way they handled their crew. They had all sorts of champions that weren't even trying to be pretty. Rammus was one. Poppy was one. Galio was one (still is, just diff back then) and others, Kassadin, Renekton, Nasus. They didn't have to be pretty to be worth the same amount of time that pretty characters got (and, admittedly, who still did exist in greater number, but sex sells!) and they all had their own thing going on. I'd sustain now that aside from a few outliers like Vel'koz/Brand both being three-tick mages, that kind of thing, a lot of the cast does have diversity in gameplay. But most of their designs are 'inspired by' pretty heavily, and are dead ringers for a lot of things. That used to be fine, but now all that seems to be happening is more and more, the champions who don't fit that 'grown human' sort of mold (does that make sense?) like Yasuo and Riven (and Cait and Lux) get more attention and spotlight.

My 'pls support my argument I'm right guys ;_;' for this one is Spirit Guard Udyr, who was release to draw attention to Udyr specifically, because he was a very tame design with almost nothing going on. Despite that, I'd imagine they challenged what they could do and ended up making a diverse, attractive Ultimate skin. What a beautiful reasoning; they could spend it on anyone like Sona, who is clearly going to have a fairly easy time with a skin design. But they chose Udyr, who's kind of an unremarkable character on many layers.

Now, I don't admonish Sona (DJ is a wholly original skin idea, altering the BGM is pretty much an idea that works exclusively on Sona too, barring maybe Pentakill bonus for having all 5?) but it's definitely no issue to come up with a million designs and make them look good. Have you seen those? Lord in Heaven, it's like some sort of portal to Shangri-La. That, right there. That is Tir Na Nog, and that is where the spirits of the brave go to rest. ...I'm getting carried away. The point is, if you want something to look good on Sona, you're going to have an easy time. (I did not say original. Those concepts are thus far exclusive.)

Look at Zac, though. If you want something good on that design, it's going to take you some time before you zero in on something that's not just a palette swap. Pool Party goes a long way in being an awesome design, but I could understand finesse and nuance being taken to make it work.

I do not see Fiora or Miss Fortune being as much an issue. (Regarding Taric: I took a snapchat, sent it to my friend, and said 'I did it. I beat League of Legends.' regarding the purchased screen)

Now, all for everyone getting skins. But when they start very deliberately Cassiopeia leaving Viktor champs behind, it feels kind of unfair-- of course Caitlyn's getting another skin, she's a tall chick with a rifle. You could put her in a one-piece, give her a big ol' super soaker and away they go. On the other hand, I can see the startup process for getting Rammus to go being a bit tougher. That's a design that doesn't really lend itself naturally to being anything but kind of some weird serpent/bug. To make a long story short, I know it's going to happen. But when it happens all the time, it feels cheap. We know they can make a bunch of Lux skins; I think the point of Elementalist was so they could bench Lux skins for two years. I hope so. If I get into that, though, I'm going to post your goddam eyes out. I'm not even sure if you're going to read this far.

The point is, there's a lot of art direction being funneled into champions who already benefit from the latent inclinations of their base design. Clever outings are becoming less and less. My snide comments are almost unrelated to gameplay (as they're making aggressive changes and I like that).

Now if you'll excuse me, sir

Necromancer just dropped, and Malthael is waiting.

noshmoJun 28, 20172 votes

1.) The entirety of Diablo 3 can be a joke in game, you can literally pop demons like balloons at most difficulties. All the boss fights are pretty easy, the easiest to me being Azmodan. I usually try to make myself see this in all blizzard games: what you see in game isn't what actually happened.

2.) I think your disagreement on the relations between Kayn and Malthael is proving the point I was making earlier, you can see relations in champion design across all MOBAs, it'll just become a tiring argument to start relating every new character to not only every other champion in league, but every character in every MOBA. You're going to find similarities. There's no way around it.

Also yeah, I can relate to seeing the reveal of a bare chested dude with a huge scythe and sighing. I suppose it's better late then never!

3.) I can also see the relation of the vastness of humanoid skin releases to the trickle of non-humanoid releases. Riot posted their thought-process on skin making in a post not too long ago: http://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/2017/05/dev-state-of-skins/

Make of it what you will.

My personal thoughts on this boil down to the fact that the community has set the skin bar at a whole new level. Skins released earlier didn't need particle effect changes and a new recall for every skin above 975. They didn't need new sound design for every skin above 1350. They didn't need newer voice lines for every skin above 1820 (even though that started a while back as well.) They also didn't need to put out an ultimate skin every year. The common argument for Spirit Guard Udyr is that it was supposed to be Udyr's visual update. That would've probably brought more play to Udyr than the release of any skin if that was Riot's purpose for making it.

This is why I'm loving 750 skins more and more. The fantasy skins on Jayce, Sejuani, Karthus (975), and Bard were very unique in their own ways. The Worldbreaker set of skins amazed me at their uniqueness and ability to keep all of their champs fantasies in tact while giving them a similar genre. The Baker skins with Pantheon (975), Leona, Olaf, and Akali are giving new life to these champions!

tl;dr if you wanna find "clever outings" look to the 750 skin lines.

Morgan le FeyJun 28, 20171 votes

Somewhat off-topic, but I got to play Malthy in Brawl in HotS last night. They did a great job with him. Having actually played him, he feels nothing like Zed, nor does he match Kayn's fantasy. Malthy feels... inexorable. Not the way Nautilus is inexorable, where he's unkillable and impossible to rid yourself of but more relentlessly inescapable. I see my enemies trying in vain to escape as I slowly glide up to them. They do everything they can to escape my circle of soul-ripping horror, and then I'm on top of them again. With Zed, I feel like I'm playing a magic ninja. I haven't played Kayn, but he looks like something from a visceral hack-and-slash game.

When I played Malthy, though, I felt like little else but a horror-genre monster. Kinda like Slenderman, in a way? Never quite there, always theoretically escapable, so you always run... and you never quite get away. Sure, you might escape for the moment, but he'll always be there when you turn around, never quite gone. And, eventually, inevitably, you'll turn around and find him next to you. There's a scream, a ripping noise, you desperately try to get away, then he explodes out of you and keeps at it. Eventually, he backs off, but not before leaving behind a little black skull above your head. Unless there's a healer or fountain on hand, you can then do little else but stare at it and curse your fate before your inevitable expiration.

He's really spooky-feeling, even to play as. I love it. Blizzard did a fabulous job with him.

noshmoJun 28, 20171 votes

On that note, I feel like Kayn will be exactly that. He has his Q (a short dash,) his W on Rhaast (A mini Sion Q,) his E (Allows him to move through walls,) and his ult (which literally attaches himself to the target.)

It's gonna be very hard to get Kayn off of you.

Darth SidioussJun 27, 20172 votes

I dont like the way he looks visually and his overall theme , the teams behind these new champions always do a good job! but this new guy just feels off and not unique what so ever. Like god I hate Taliyah eyebrows BUT i like the rest of her and her overall earth bender type theme and i think even she is degrees higher in uniqueness compared to this new guy were getting.

RalanrJun 27, 20171 votes

I don't like him, but he's not his mobility or damage. Well not all of his mobility (I do not like his E).

I think his ult is stupid. I don't see the counterplay.

SirTeemoMushroomJun 27, 20171 votes

i think lissandra could kinda counterplay his R but still.. her CD on R is 2 minutes + 10 seconds :/

Variks the LoyalJun 27, 20175 votes

At least partially, counterplay involves either being shielded or avoiding being damaged in the first place.

After that, any untargetability or stasis would also provide counterplay. Mages with Zhonyas could use it on this similarly to Zed or Rek'Sai's ultimate. Champions like Xayah with untargetability can avoid it, and champions like Bard, Kalista, and Tahm Kench can help allies who've become victim to it.

I would think of it as basically Zed's R, but instead of damage amp and higher damage potential, it has flat damage (And healing if you choose Darkin).

One might also say that limited counterplay for certain characters might be an intention. Using the Zed comparison again, there isn't much counterplay for an Ashe or Jinx that gets targeted by Death Mark, but limited counterplay I think helps define a champion for a role (Zed/Kayn are clearly Assassins, so squishy targets have limited counterplay VS them).

And then there's 'meta' counterplay; preventing yourself from getting in the situation altogether, similarly to spotting a Rengar with wards and map awareness before he ults.

RalanrJun 27, 20171 votes

Not seeing the counterplay for tanks or bruisers vs his Darkin form.

Variks the LoyalJun 27, 20172 votes

Is it %health based true, physical, or magic damage?

If it's true, then you're right and I hate it.

If it's physical/magical, building the appropriate defenses should work, similarly to counterbuilding other sources of it.

RalanrJun 27, 20172 votes

Probably the latter. But I prefer counterplay first and counterbuilding second.

Variks the LoyalJun 27, 20172 votes

Perhaps limited counterplay is the intention there, to allow his otherwise Assassin-oriented kit to stand toe-to-toe with tanky brawlers.

I'm not necessarily defending it(If it ends up OP then it ends up OP), I'm just trying to keep an open mind.

Fear the KaynJun 27, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Not seeing the counterplay for tanks or bruisers vs his Darkin form.

Looks pretty squishy

DurzakaJun 28, 20171 votes

His % damage isnt insane though. its only on his Q. Which unless it has an insane multiplier isnt going to let him wreck every bruiser or tank he fights.

Fuh QueueJun 27, 20172 votes

You don't see the counterplay? When he hops inside you, walk towards your team and CC him as soon as he comes out. Since the damage is delayed. I'm guessing that's a perfect time to have an ally shield you or to use any active item that may increase your durability. The counterplay is very clear.

Anonymous AliasJun 28, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I don't like him, but he's not his mobility or damage. Well not all of his mobility (I do not like his E).

I think his ult is stupid. I don't see the counterplay.

He gets less vision. A bait play can be able to shut him down.

Linna ExcelJun 27, 20171 votes

He looks like he was inspired by soul calibur, and I think most people were hoping for a female, but he seems okay.

I think he could be an ongoing balance issue between the two forms he evolves into.

Ra1ugaJun 27, 20171 votes

He seems way too feast or famine

paisyJun 27, 20171 votes

No you aren't, obviously

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 27, 20171 votes

he is a compination of YASUO and ZED on skills

i think he has nothing of Yasuo... Remind more of Talon, Zed, Trynda & Sion.

His kit is great, when i see new champ & new rework i can't wait for MonkeyKing rework

PhoenixOfHeavenJun 27, 20171 votes

Not only are both of them primarily, but not exclusively, mid laners, but Zed is actually considered to be in a good spot. This guy is a jungler, and while he could go in laneing, he has a decent handicap for doing so. I think he'll be just fine, if anything he'll have a bit too much sustain. But we wont know till he hits live.

Eternal791Jun 27, 20171 votes

I mean, I think he's really cool and I wanna try him out, but yeah, he's likely going to be at least a little bit of pain to fight.

Tribbles FoxfolkJun 27, 20171 votes

{quoted}

like.. there's too much mobility and too much % health dmg . he is a compination of YASUO and ZED on skills

Eh...I don't necessarily like him, but he DOES seem kinda fun. I could totally see this guy another Fiora/Darius if Riot isn't careful.

I'm cautiously excited to see how this turns out. Maybe Riot will surprise everyone with a well-balanced and interesting champ!

ChaosThiefJun 28, 20171 votes

He's not as mobile as a lot of champions, but his wall traveling will prove problematic balance wise. Maybe.

FantasySniperJun 28, 20171 votes

As much as people claim to abhor edgy cancer, they still find it fun to play.

Icestar1186Jun 28, 20171 votes

No; you're not. A lot of people do, though.

Balancing him might be difficult (who the hell am I kidding, of course it will be), but his kit looks cool, he'll be fun as hell to play, and he's a second (confirmed) Darkin. I'm honestly surprised we didn't get "ignore walls" on an ability sooner (though I would have expected it to be an ult), and an ultimate along the lines of "become untargetable and attach to another champion, then do a thing" has shown up with some regularity on fan-made kits. Kayn brings in elements that parts of the community have wanted for a while.