It completely covers and removes his only weakness, that being his poor early game. This should not be a viable ability to max first.
An easy way to fix this would be to remove the damage on cast and make it only deal damage over time. Taking 300 unavoidable magic damage on every wave has very little counterplay when his life steal is factored in.
Jamaree10 votesIf Nasus is using his E to farm, he isn't using his Q which means it won't be doing shit all for damage end game, or are we really complaining about AP Nasus?
Yenn1 votesIf Nasus is using his E to farm, he isn't using his Q which means it won't be doing shit all for damage end game, or are we really complaining about AP Nasus?
It's not AP Nasus. It's regular Nasus with E max. Read my post above. With Manaflow Band and Iceborn, you'll run out of health before he runs out of mana unless you have built-in sustain.
emarythomp24 votesInstead of asking why it's viable, which btw just because you lose to something doesn't make it viable, ask how higher elo players are countering this strategy? Ask why isn't this played in higher elo as often as it should to be "viable". What I do vs nasus E max is rush a little mr like mr boots or if you don't have them yet, let him push you undertower. This is tricky because you have to bait his spirit fire, but you can take damage from it in the process (I don't know the exact cd of e early but I know its long). Also this ability costs a lot of mana for nasus so I recommend you either all in him/poke him when he's low on mana or all in him/poke him. E max sacrifices his Q damage, which is his all ining and exntended fight potential. Yeah with e max he gets a lot of poke damage but he loses his q potency (Even if he is farming stacks if he'd run out of mana too quickly if he did that and used spirit fire spam).
Seeing the game where you lost to nasus E max I've noticed that you were playing kennen, a ranged champion with a big attack range and good poke vs the nasus.
In that case there were a multitude of option available to completely negate nasus as kennen and it seems like he punished you going klepto by going E max and trying to poke you when you got near to get procs right? Even then going klepto is still good here. Most of the time a Nasus vs a Kennen shouldn't even to be able to get close to kennen. Also you can let him push you in and have an even easier time farming. The stuff I said above was assuming that you're melee and at a disadvantage.
Yenn1 votesInstead of asking why it's viable, which btw just because you lose to something doesn't make it viable, ask how higher elo players are countering this strategy? Ask why isn't this played in higher elo as often as it should to be "viable". What I do vs nasus E max is rush a little mr like mr boots or if you don't have them yet, let him push you undertower. This is tricky because you have to bait his spirit fire, but you can take damage from it in the process (I don't know the exact cd of e early but I know its long). Also this ability costs a lot of mana for nasus so I recommend you either all in him/poke him when he's low on mana or all in him/poke him. E max sacrifices his Q damage, which is his all ining and exntended fight potential. Yeah with e max he gets a lot of poke damage but he loses his q potency (Even if he is farming stacks if he'd run out of mana too quickly if he did that and used spirit fire spam).
Seeing the game where you lost to nasus E max I've noticed that you were playing kennen, a ranged champion with a big attack range and good poke vs the nasus.
In that case there were a multitude of option available to completely negate nasus as kennen and it seems like he punished you going klepto by going E max and trying to poke you when you got near to get procs right? Even then going klepto is still good here. Most of the time a Nasus vs a Kennen shouldn't even to be able to get close to kennen. Also you can let him push you in and have an even easier time farming. The stuff I said above was assuming that you're melee and at a disadvantage.
At level 9, I have 1400 health. His E cooldown is 9 seconds with Iceborn; he can use it up to three times per wave, but probably only twice. It deals ~300 damage on the cast, and also zones me from poking him while he clears the wave, because I have to edge around the zone.
Each wave, I take at least 300 damage from the first cast with Comet, more realistically about 500 damage if he uses it twice. After 2-3 waves, I'm near death and have to recall, because I have no way to sustain.
With Iceborn first item, he has 1100 mana, plus 250 from Manaflow Band and the regeneration it gives, plus Corrupting Potion. Baseline, without regen, he can cast it 10 times (worth ~2500 damage if every other procs Comet). He can spam all he wants, there's no way for him to run out of mana before I run out of health.
No matter what runes I'm using, Kennen needs to get into auto range (550) to last hit, vs. his 650 E range.
I'm not sure why you even posted this, because you clearly have never experienced this and have poor working game knowledge (i.e. 'let Nasus push you,' Nasus has no choice to push to me, but his E is wide enough to cover most of the lane near the turret)
emarythomp22 votes"At level 9, I have 1400 health. His E cooldown is 9 seconds; he can use it up to three times per wave, but probably only twice. It deals ~300 damage on the cast, and also zones me from poking him while he clears the wave, because I have to edge around the zone,"
Why not walk into the zone to poke him? The damage after the initial is reduced and you have klepto. You have a chance of getting potions with klepto to help you sustain
Use your E to move around it? Or you could go through it since your E gives reistances. The downside obviously is getting into melee range, but it's still an option, especially early on
Were you abusing him early enough? Like I said you have klepto and you're ranged. You have the advantage early in gold and poke. Maybe I need to watch your reply to see how exactly you treated laning because you should not be zone from spirit fire...
Also this is mentioning his level 9. When I was talking about ways to counter it I was mostly referring to early game because once again you're a ranged champion with good base ad and klepto going into an immobile nasus who isn't focusing on q. You should just farm klepto stacks off him and you automatically gain a lead? Unless he's baiting you to move into range of his spirit fire or something I just don't see how you can possibly get poked out of lane early.
Ok level 9 is when it starts to hurt. Farm with Q? Walk into zone after initial damage? Walk into zone as it's expiring so you can poke/farm? I mean what items did you have level 9? Any mr?
If he's walking up to you through the minion wave and spamming it, first you failed to punish him early and he got strong enough to do that to you without proper punishment I assume, but second you can also bait his range and make him hit your minion wave OR press E the second he casts it to reduce your damage.
Since he gets good sustain lvl 9 he basically outscales so you can also once again let him push you in and farm undertower. Not only will this allow your jungler to come more often, but now he has to make a choice to push you in and risk a jungle gank.
"also zones me from poking him while he clears the wave, because I have to edge around the zone," how exactly is he zoning you from poke? If he's pushing the wave in then thats great. Goes into your tower. You don't really need to poke him then because at that point his just shoving. You have range and klepto AND your q. You can farm at a distance just fine.
Checked your inventory and you have no mr items at all. In fact you went for zhonias despite knowing that he's doing mostly magic damage to you. Why didn't you build mr? You also have 5% cdr meaning your q is up more.
"I have to edge around the zone," then continue to edge around the zone? How are you being hit if your doing this? Also like I said before you dont HAVE to because lightning rush and mr exists. Maybe if you bought some mr in your kit you would have had a better chance at survival. I mean you're ranged your spacing is important so how are you spacing?
"Each wave, I take at least 300 damage from the first cast with Comet, more realistically about 500 damage if he uses it twice. After two waves, I'm near death, because I have no way to sustain,"
You can avoid comet with lightning rush
You have klepto for random pots, taste of blood and ravenous hunter which gives initial 1.5% spellvamp. How are you not sustaining with q spam from range? Are you landing the skillshots? Also you have doransg blade, which gives 3% lifesteal. So your issue isn't sustain it's getting hit by E at max range and having no mr at all.
I mean you have no mr at all. You likely went armor runes too. I don't know what else to tell ya man.
"With Iceborn first item, he has 1100 mana, plus 250 from Manaflow Band and the regeneration it gives, plus Corrupting Potion. Baseline, without regen, he can cast it 10 times (worth ~2500 damage if every other procs Comet) for 2500 damage. He can spam all he wants, there's no way for him to run out of mana before I run out of health,"
"No matter what runes I'm using, Kennen needs to get into auto range (550) to last hit, vs. his 650 E range,"
I mean your q has 1050 RANGE and is 8 seconds level 1. Not factoring in your cosmic insight or cdr from protobelt and zhonias. You max this ability first meaning it goes from 8 seconds to 7/6/5/4. By the time you put 4 points in its only 5 seconds + cosmic insight. Not only can you poke him more often, but cs more often with it too. That's why I'm questioning whether you landed you q when you should of. And no energy isn't an issue if you're just using q. it costs 60 energy and you have 200 energy with +10 energy regen a second.
200/60 assuming you're spamming at rank 4 means you get do up to 3 or 4 q's. Not factoring in you literally recover 10 energy a second, meaning it takes just 6 seconds for you to have another q if your spamming.
Also your high aa range allows you to cs melee minions and cannon behind the turret. Nasus has to over extend to poke you. Yeah you can miss casters but it's better than taking unnecessary poke. Espeically when you aren't optimally building against said poke.
ALSO his spirit fire is a 12 second cd at all ranks. You have no excuse to not abuse him early with such a long cd ability. As a kennen ranged lane bully with KLEPTO you should be spamming the hell out the nasus early. He's weakest early before lvl 6 and he usually outscales lvl 9. You also didn't go any mr. You have no excuse.
If anything It seems like you need to work on spacing as kennen as well as q farming. But like I said ill give you the benefit of the doubt and watch your replay (If I can). If it turns out what I said was wrong. Then I'll admit it based on the evidence of the replay.
emarythomp23 votesSo I'm watching your vod so far I'm noticing some problems:
You started good with poking him but you negated it by not only going in auto attack range of him, but by taking a lot of minion damage when you shouldn't have been. You're kennen. You don't need to get into melee range to poke.
You went into the bush once and never did it again to stop aggro. Why?
You're not poking him as much as you COULD have in that lane. Use the bushes. Makes it much easier.
You were wiffing several qs that should of landed. Don't expect you to play perfect but it should not be like this.
because of these mistakes by level 2 you're half his hp. You're not poking properly and you're being punished for it.
The first item you bought on back, was an amp tone and control ward... You see he's going comet and you're taking more damage from E and you decide amp tone instead of mr? I'm assuming that this is your first time encountering E max nasus.
BRO YOU AA HIM WHEN HE HAD A HUGE MINION WAVE CRASHING INTO YOUR TOWER AND HE WAS LOW ON MANA. Meaning he was going to back anyway. I can't make this up. He had 7 casters and 3 melees and you decided to aa him as the wave was crashing under turret. This is what I mean that you don't know when to properly poke.
I'm also assuming you're a novice kennen player because you're missing several cs that you should be able to easily get with the ad from dorans.
Another mistake: You got hit by his E and lost a lot less than a quarter hp. You go into a bush and then come out and auto attack him when he's behind 3 casters and a canon! What are you doing? That brought you to half hp for just trying to poke him LMAO. The spirit fire didn't even do that much. And instead of shoving your huge wave in you decide to go into the middle bush, come out and try to get in range to poke him again, while he's full hp and you're half, and he promptly punishes you by pressing E! XD Jesus man
You talk about how you can't farm from range yet I literally see you farming from BEHIND your caster minions in a huge minion wave. Shove the wave in and back right?
So this is your second back. You're behind on cs because of poor csing and not focusing on cs and you still have no mr despite actually witnissing the damage his E did to you. You go for hex blade instead. Where's the MR?
Once again you don't know how to poke. You walk up to him in a range in which he can instantly turn around and e you. You're trying to aa him while in front of his minions so you take a lot of minion damage. Why aren't you just poking with q and w? Your q has the range and at this point when ur lvl 7 your q has a 4 second timer. You have NO excuse here man. And still no mr.
Instead of waiting for the wave you're literally walking in front of his wave like a lost puppy and then you wonder why he's hitting you with so many E's? You're literally letting him for free.
You actually did what I was talking about earlier when I said BAIT OUT HIS E. You literally did it. And you're still complaining about how it's unavoidable or how the hitbox is too big. YOU LITERALLY DODGED IT UNDER TOWER.
I think you need to press 'c' and know how big you're range is because you keep walking into melee range of naus just to farm when you can be at a much safer distance. You do this several times and once again ask why you're getting hit by so many. Sheesh. Still no mr.
You almost dodge his e again but you greed too much for one caster minion.... It's not worth the damage. especially when you have no mr.
You have a habit of walking to close when you don't need to be and trying to harrass him when you obviously should just be csing. You have less health. if you take a trade you'll lose and that's what happens. Use. Your. Goddamn. Q. and cs from range. Who cares if you can't harrass him? You don't always have to. Especially when you didn't do it enough early.
Kill 2. You killed him twice now (With help of the jungler), You're behind 20 cs from him when you're ranged and hes melee, and you still having spend any gold on mr. Still. What's your excuse this time?
At this point you're trying to harrass a lvl 9 nasus who has shen. His lifesteal outscales your poke. Especially when you aren't poking enough. It's pretty common game knowledge by the way. That nasus power spikes at lvl 9 but w/e.
Bro seriously. You see nasus literally walk up to you in an attempt to E you and you don't back away. Instead you.... side step a small distance back and forth? What? What are you doing? You're taking free damage.
You have protobelt, your q is a 3 second cd. You should be spamming it to cs since you're so behind on cs but you aren't. Once again. Why? I literally saw u q a caster, have q up again but then leave it alone? When it was in range to be q'd? ??????????????? Edit: Oh so you can kill taliyah. So you have 3 kills now and are still struggling with this nasus and still don't have mr.
You literally trade with nasus and outdamage him when you both were at full. you were at 1000 hp and he had 800 from that trade. You have no excuse.
Once again walking up IN RANGE of his e just for one minion. I'm assuming you're tilted at this point because that's how it looks like you're playing.
Literally you took a spirit fire because you got into range of his E and whither which allowed him to get into MELEE range of you. You let a nasus as a kennen get into melee range and q you. No excuse.
Then you gave a shutdown because you miscalculated your damage and his damage and tankiness because you thought you could get a kill.
So are you going to buy mr this time? Nope. Instead you got sorc boots and a codex.
And that's where I stop the video. It's clear to me that nasus E isnt the issue. I suggest you watch your own replay to understand as well. You have no more excuses man.
Phieldworker2 votesThese are dance good notes.
Phieldworker2 votesIt’s easy,get Doran’s shield, get like 600 gold and buy 4 rejuv beads. Then get whichever boots and you can heal up and even farm thorough the poke. I did it against a teemo, heim, vayne and Nasus and it works every time. Building poke means you’re sacrificing somewhere else you just gotta anylyze our the weakness. And like someone said in the comments if he is using this early game to poke instead of using q to farm before items he’s sacrificing his power and you should be able to exploit this.
