ADCs stack rfc shiv and pump out 5-600 magic damage bursts every couple seconds and on the first auto
bruisers shifted away from DPS since titanic came out, giving them a health scaling burst attack, majority of them either build this or go assassin, old time DPS bruisers are rare now
when are SUSTAINED DAMAGE champions going to be SUSTAINED DAMAGE again?
jwebb011366 votesthey are doing sustained burst damage
Mizaya6 votesI literally spent an hour testing this for 1 second DPS numbers, because someone else brought it into an otherwise good post.
The short answer is... no, they aren't. A syndra with full build can instantly kill a squishy, dealing 3.6k damage in just over a second. An ADC with a full build needs just over 3 crits to kill another ADC (as calculated in yet another post).
Penns37 votes3 crits = just over a second too hehe
Mizaya6 votesWell, it'd take 4, so that's 1.6 seconds at the least, and you'd only be overkilling them by about 300 damage, where Syndra has already overkilled you by over 1k after just a second.
Faceroll Tactics20 votesAdcs get to keep auto attacking after their kill Syndra blew all her cooldowns
Mizaya3 votesYes, that is why they deal more DPS. My point is they don't outburst Syndra, lol.
Divewing30 votes"These champions don't outburst one of the highest burst rotations in the game, therefore they are not dealing burst damage"
Mizaya5 votesOther champs I tested that outburst: 
(And he bursts over twice as fast as Syndra)
and probably many more
Divewing11 votesbefore this gets out of hand, i'd like to point this out;
simply concluding a champion's level of damage in a vacuum by comparison is flawed.
across all of those champions, the HIGHEST amount of guaranteed damage comes off 4 ultimates. The highest amount of guaranteed damage hitting is 33%, 1 of which will do sweet fuck all if nothing else hits. This is a legitimate issue because it's unrealistic to expect all your spells to land all the time - something that doesn't really factor in with Auto Attacks.
On top of that, it seems you are just auto attacking with champions. Caitlyn's Headshot-Net-Peacemaker-Headshot combo will probably be a bit higher if you try it.
Mizaya1 votesAs is concluding that ADCs have any greater chance of hitting a backline target in a teamfight than a mage, many of which have higher range (
are just the most extreme of examples). As it is, burst damage tends to be less consistent and reliable than DPS, as it is much harder to counter. This is why you have had the "outplayed by Syndra" meme for forever, but when do you hear that about ADCs outside of this board and it's "sustained burst" memes?
So if you want to talk realistic, lemme tell ya what. You will rarely see any ADC winning a fight by hitting a backline target (not hitting one when the teamfight is already basically won), or reaching one safely to hit to begin with. Why do you think 
is currently god tier? It's almost like killing tanks isn't even hard for him, but for most other ADCs you're stuck with max 300 dmg crits against a tank. ADCs don't always get to stand still and right click forever (although the meta does favor supportive team comps, which I can't say is an ADC problem), just as mages don't always get access to the enemy priority targets. I'm not saying mages WILL reliably burst enemy squishies, I'm literally just defining burst for you. And DPS focused ADCs don't burst. I'm sure you can make a case for individual champions like Corki, but the items don't burst by themselves.
And I've realized that I've made the mistake of playing your game (or just boards in general) by judging balance based on end game scenarios that rarely ever happen, but when they do, heavily favor ADCs. But to see that the most hyper-scaling class in the game doesn't reach the burst numbers of many mages says a lot. Are there bullshit interactions with crit items like on Vayne, who can 3 shot with 2 items? Yeah, but since you all cried for no changes at all when Vayne buffs were on PBE instead of offering constructive criticism that would make for healthier changes as compared to her current state, you'll have to wait a while before the 3 shot Vayne build is no longer a thing. And when I suggest changes that make the scaling of ADCs less volatile (aka energize item nerfs), what I get in response is "No, I don't want them building PD either!" Like, what do you want then?
I will say this, before you misjudge my intentions. I come here to discuss balance, not to try and get people on a nerf or buff train or to convince Riot. So let me say it: I don't think mages are OP, in fact I could care less if they were buffed. I like having to adapt to changes as a player, it's refreshing.
But when I say ADCs don't out-burst mages, I think of moments like this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3Ljd_Xd0yI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAoDII6R-iI
LordGeovanni1 votesthey do as mages cant make fighters and some tanks clear like the red sea unless they syndra or veigar etc who have their burst on low cooldown spells. adcs can 2 -3 second a full tank and move onto the back line. even worse when the whole team attacks a tank which they dont want to allow to properly tank 1 person because they dont want them to be unkillable
Mizaya1 votesADC items by themselves don't kill tanks that fast. Watch SKT vs SSG series, game 2? A full build Trist, 
, was critting a maokai for 232, who had built 
and had almost 3500 health.
You might be able to argue 
killing tanks quickly, but that's because of their % health mixed damage shred.
To be fair though you can see also that in that game the Orianna wasn't able to do damage, as there was a 
from enemy Taric, and she just got jumped on by Faker's Fizz as well. Thus it seems ADCs are necessary to deal wtih these immense frontlines, and that is why I'm not a fan of energize items, as they make ADCs do more to squishies and less to tanks. You had a teamfight lasted almost 30 seconds, despite Ori being instantly killed at the beginning and Trist not being able to do anything afterwards...
LordGeovanni1 voteshow exactly does more free damage mean you do less to tanks than not having free damage being the energize passive.
isnt built outside of pro play
is a fighter item that adcs use because unlike a fighter they will almost never be surrounded by 5 people at the same time
LordGeovanni1 votesyou didnt say that its less dps than phantom dancer just that some how the extra damge on static shiv is less on a tank. Adcs arent suppose to duel adcs thats not their role though they have been getting buffs for it. adcs role is to provide consistant damage during a fight not to instagib anyone.
LordGeovanni1 voteshalf of maws passive is lifesteal and spellvamp incase people didnt notice because it was taken off of Rageblade. Being surrounded by 5 people taking damage of every type from multiple sources and cc is the difference from being able to leverage the best part of maw's passive and still dieing even though the sheild activated
OHminus1 votesThat was the entire reason why SSG lost - itemization. Crown didn't build Zhonyas and Ruler's build was ineffective - Mercurial imo was ok but Maw was overkill. Should have been BT/Reaver.
On a slightly unrelated note, I hate crit and wish it was removed and replaced more DPS - aligned.
Ahristocats6 voteswhat about kog
Penns21 voteskog is a proud juggertanksman, he doesnt need a whole second
kek
Im Taylor Swift4 votesbut he is inmobile just jump on him, an assasin should do the work /s
Limrick10 votesI remember when Kog had the 5.0 attack speed, we had a Kha'Zix jump at him and he died before he even hit the ground lol
Death by Glamour14 votesTechnically it would take Syndra longer than 1 second to fully burst someone down.
You would need to get 2Qs out first.
Meep Man12 votesAre you talking about completely unmodified attacks? Because almost no ADC has unmodified attacks.
Mega crit passive
Q
Close range definitely does more than the average bear
Q
W
Passive
Passive
R
W (less so than others)
QWR
All of these ADCs can boost their basic attacks in huge ways. Draven most definitely does not take over 4 crits to take down another ADC. Quinn as well. I would even argue Vayne. The rest, maybe 3-4 depending on itemization, but that's still in around 1.75 seconds.
is over a second depending on distance since her ultimate has a small little "wind-up" time where the balls all fall to Syndra and are launched from there. Also, that's an ultimate, and the highest of the food chain for burst ultimates at that. Comparing it to Syndra's R is like comparing a Raptor to a T-Rex. Sure, the T-Rex is a heck of a lot better at killing something alone, but they are still both carnivorous dinosaurs. Anything that deals more than 1000 damage in around a second can be considered burst.
Mizaya4 votesTrue, but that varies for each champion. And the most popular ADC, Trist, just has a base autoattack. I think 3 is the minimum though without going into lethality, and many of those ADCs either don't usually stack that much crit or go Bork which makes calculations a bit trickier.
Now I brought up Syndra as in example, but I tested multiple mages and found that each one could burst hard enough to out DPS an Ashe about 2-5 times during their burst window. Like Veigar was doing over 3k in just half a second.
And if we're talking 1000+ dps is burst, well then ADCs have been bursting since the beginning of time. That's just how it's always been.
50000000000000003 votesWhile technically not a modified AA, Tristana has the strongest AS steroid in the game.
Pierce The Veal1 votesI literally spent an hour testing this for 1 second DPS numbers, because someone else brought it into an otherwise good post.
The short answer is... no, they aren't. A syndra with full build can instantly kill a squishy, dealing 3.6k damage in just over a second. An ADC with a full build needs just over 3 crits to kill another ADC (as calculated in yet another post).
You clearly haven't tried it with draven.
Mizaya1 votesI ban draven every game, anyways. There's a good reason I don't like playing against him.
Pierce The Veal1 votesI ban draven every game, anyways. There's a good reason I don't like playing against him.
Vayne can also do it (at least before her Q nerfs go through) with a Q crit with statikk shiv.
I think Caitlyn used to be able to do it too.
And twitch can do it too if he sets it up.
3TWarrior5 votesyou're also implying that syndra (an immobile mage with only one form of defense and who also requires multiple spells to set up her ultimate) has an advantage when she did more to get her damage and also somehow got within X units to cast her ultimate onto an opposing squishy
btw, your math is somehow WAY off
even with 1000 AP, a syndra can only deal at max 6x (180 + 20% ap) that would come to 2280 for her ultimate if she managed to pull off a perfect combo...
I don't know where you are getting your numbers, but she would require almost 8 seconds of combat to pull this off and an extremely favorable combat position if you then take your 3600 and divide it by 8, it is only roughly 440 dps if she manages a perfect execution of EVERYTHING
440 dps...one marksman auto attack does 500 damage or more and they have multiple opportunities to mess up as well along with abilities to add to their damage pool
if a marksman gets 2 autos a second, that is over twice syndra's damage output
then, after all of that is finished, don't forget that it is a ludicrous amount of AP required to deal that much damage
maybe with ordinary AP and her entire kits worth of damage, she can do that, but that requires 8 seconds of combat...
Mizaya3 votesI mean whether or not I Q twice it's about the same.
The combo is picking up a Q, which isn't that unrealistic considering your Q has such a low CD, then WQRE. It goes really fast if you do it properly, like less than a second to cast everything, and the ult animation with all the balls is a bit longer so it brings it over a second barely. You will overkill by 1k on a squishy target in less than 1 second of casts. I mean probably even more than I tested, as usually squishies don't have 100 base MR.
Starcraft243ver2 votesbut you didnt account for masteries. Sorcery : +2% Bounty hunter: +5% Assassin : +2% Merciless +3% (probably 1.5%) (hard to account for, since it depends on which ball he starts to proc) Thunderlord : 100 + 180
That's a total of 2460 * 1.1 = 2706 damages.
50000000000000001 votesThere's also MR and Mpen
Starcraft243ver1 votesI was talking about raw damages ofc.
3TWarrior1 votesthank you, though it is probably best not to assume that a player has 3 unique kills on syndra, they might have 2 as a fair number though but that mastery is very subjective
I was merely pointing out that they were comparing a near-perfect situation to something a marksman can do just given the time
Cosmic Warper4 votesI literally spent an hour testing this for 1 second DPS numbers, because someone else brought it into an otherwise good post.
The short answer is... no, they aren't. A syndra with full build can instantly kill a squishy, dealing 3.6k damage in just over a second. An ADC with a full build needs just over 3 crits to kill another ADC (as calculated in yet another post).
show me a syndra that actually deals 3.6k damage to a target in just over a second. Such bullshit lmao
Mizaya4 votesYou want me to record all of this, when you can just go in practice mode and do it yourself? Or are you incapable of doing the combo properly?
I mean I argued this yesterday with someone who didn't understand the concept of animation cancelling or efficient use of cast times. It's ridiculous that people don't know this already.
Cosmic Warper2 votesYou want me to record all of this, when you can just go in practice mode and do it yourself? Or are you incapable of doing the combo properly?
I mean I argued this yesterday with someone who didn't understand the concept of animation cancelling or efficient use of cast times. It's ridiculous that people don't know this already.
Syndra doesn't have animations that can be cancelled to produce a 3.6k damage combo in just over a second. Stop with the bullshit.
Mizaya3 votesAlright.
http://i.imgur.com/9HGmk3F.gif[/img]
3915 total damage, 3249 DPS. So 1.2 seconds is the number here.
Mogarl1 votesFrom summoning the first ball that was a bit over 5 seconds though. A marksman with that same gold build would have gotten 10-15 AA attacks off. Even at 300 damage (which would be against a Tank) an auto they would have done 3000-4500. With Syndra's ult being the highest "instant" burst a mage can achieve, besides a very well stacked Veigar, I think you've failed to prove a point.
OHminus1 votes3TWarrior1 votesto add further to the counter-arguments, this syndra has a complete full build valued at: 
(1100), 
(3200), 
(3800), 
(2650), 
(2900), 
(2900)
that comes to 16,550 gold so well beyond most game times' worth of gold
Big Lincoln4 votesbalanced
Elkington VI10 votesThat requires everyone living long enough for sustained damage to matter. Outside of rare cases late game, it just doesn't happen anymore. The game pretty much belongs to ranged and/or mobile burst champions.
RacoonHunter8 voteswhats even more pathetic is that does more damage with its passive than the AP equiv for less money..
Riot needs to take another look at AP items and their stats in general.
Spoofghoul3 votestrue dat
but perhaps the bigger issue lies with AD itemization
not saying ap itemization is completely fine just that AD itemization is completely bonkers overtuned,
And you don't fix balance issues by saying hey AD is really over tuned now so ap sucks by comparison you know what will fix that? over tuning ap even harder then AD is
. . .
That is called power creep and is as far from balancing a game properly as you can get
You don't fix balance problems by creating bigger balance problems, although it's kind of Riot's Signature move if you look at the last couple seasons so it wouldn't in the least surprise me.
TálØnly1 votesNo they dont need to look into ap if they do theyll nerf them since aps are broken af
zero3564 votesWhen fights last long enough for people to notice a difference between sustained DPS and burst
Solitair1 votesI'm pretty sure those items dont stack anymore, and havent since a short while after ADC class update
Sad Tyrant4 votesthey do stack, but only use the highest instance of damage from one item, but gain both the extended range and the lightning
