Suggested Fiddlesticks Buffs

Meep Man··59 votes·3,615 views

For having a fairly niche play style and therefore limited playerbase, Fiddlesticks play rate is on the lower side ever since the new Jungle came to be. He got some compensation buffs a while back, but Rylai's was also nerfed at the same time, somewhat canceling out the buffs. They helped him, but not nearly enough to bring him to a stable state. These are some suggestions I have to bring him to glory.

Base Stats

  • Attack Range: 480 -> 525

Fiddlesticks has a very strange basic attack range that is also extremely low for a Mage or... any ranged champion for that matter. This could see some buffs to make the number like other basic attack ranges and to put him at the minimum Mage AA range out there. Calculated edge to edge, this puts Fiddlestick's AA range at about the same range as Drain.

Q- Terrify

  • Now applies fear at the beginning of the cast time instead of at the end
  • Range increased to 575 from 525

Terrify is a SLIGHTLY yet VERY awkward spell for Fiddlesticks to use for two reasons. The first reason is that the fear is applied at the end of the cast time, which makes what most would believe to be an instant fear to come after a 0.3~ second delay which can lead to some frustrating situations to where Fiddlesticks fears his target, but then they get off a spell or basic attack before it activates due to the cast time. The second reason it is awkward to use is that it's range is 50 units lower than Drain's cast range, meaning Fiddlesticks has to get 50 units closer to his target to perform the standard Terrify into Drain combo. Making the ability cast at the beginning of the cast time, similar to Veigar's E, and increasing the range to match Drain's range will make it much less awkward to use for our giggling scarecrow.

W- Drain

  • Now costs 30 Mana and then drains 10/12/14/16/18 mana per second from Fiddlesticks over the duration from having a 80/90/100/110/120 mana cost at the start of the channel
  • Cool Down reduced to 3 seconds at all ranks from 4/3.75/3.5/3.25/3 seconds
  • Tether range increased to 900 against Feared targets (normal is 650)

Next, we move to Drain. This ability received an AMAZING QoL improvement in the Mage Update with the cool down change, but it was only a halfway change. A great change to this ability would be change the mana cost to drain over the duration, but still have an initial cost so Fiddlesticks is still punished slightly for channeling it at the wrong times. Also, I find it a little unneeded for Drain to have it's cool down reduced by 0.25 seconds per rank. Just having to be 3 seconds at all ranks would make it slightly more powerful while removing some needless scaling to it. Finally, we have a bigger buff to Drain in that the Tether range of Drain is increased by 250 units against Feared targets (through Terrify). This makes the normal Terrify to Drain combo not interrupt itself since the average enemy champion moves 340 units per second. Fear slows enemies by 50%, reducing this to 170~ movement speed per second. If we include the cast time of Terrify, this means Fiddlesticks will get 1.9~ seconds of Drain on a feared target, meaning they will move about 323 units over the duration of a maxed Terrify. The normal cast range of Drain is 575 and, if the Feared target leash range is 900, this means that the unit will move to 898 units away from Fiddlesticks by the end of the Drain, perfectly allowing Fiddlesticks to drain his target for the full duration of Terrify at least.

E- Dark Wind

  • Cool Down is now reduced by 25% if the crow never bounces (9/8.625/8.25/7.875/7.5 seconds base)

This is to slightly buff Fiddlesticks clear time in the new Jungle while also buffing his dueling capabilities against invasions in particular.

R- Crowstorm

  • Damage Tick Intervals decreased to deal damage every 0.1 seconds from every 0.5 seconds

Small QoL buff to make the Crowstorm damage more responsive against enemies who enter and leave the area of effect multiple times. I think it would also make the spell FEEL incredibly better to see the enemy's health drained from them in such small yet so frequent intervals.


This all looks like a lot of buffs, but many are VERY small buffs and QoL changes that don't impact Fiddlestick's main sources of power. It likely needs trimming, so tell me what you think!

EDIT: Since this thread is getting more attention I would like to say that the main buffs here I would like to happen are:

  1. The Q Buffs
  2. The First Two W Buffs All the rest to me are not necessary, but would make Fiddlesticks much smoother to play overall.

56 Comments

invisiblecat116 votes

Thank you for being smart about these changes If Riot increased his damage/cc duration I would be 100% against it These changes are just minor things that should already be there, but aren't The W one is probably the best

ModAcademy Kayn2 votes

I mean, quite a few of Riot's recent changes have been about amplifying aspects of a Champions uniqueness (Them Yi changes, and new Cho'Gath changes). Would love Fiddle to be more spoopy.

Meep Man1 votes

I would also love Fiddlesticks to be more spoopy. I think the MAIN thing holding Fiddlesticks back from being an actually scary champion is his outdated VFX, model, and VO. If all that was updated, I think he could be a TON more visually pleasing and terrifying.

YumaS2Astral11 votes

Another buff that I would want for Fiddlesticks is to give him the Renekton/Swain treatment, and make his Drain heal him based on a fixed value (that can scale with his AP) instead of the heal being based on the damage dealt by Drain.

This means that magic resistance will no longer reduce his heal, but at same time means the heal itself can be tuned if it proves to be too powerful (instead of the damage). It would also mean Fiddlesticks can consistently heal regardless of the target.

Meep Man1 votes

Perhaps. It makes me wonder what that heal would look like as far as numbers go since Fiddlestick's W heals him for a lot usually.

Scoroct10 votes

I think these look like some pretty good QoL buffs, particularly the ult dmg ticks (which could also be applied to his drain potentially) and the idea of Drain draining mana instead of just one massive mana cost at the begninning no matter how long he actually uses.

Personally something that would EXTREMELY nice for fiddle in the new jungle is if drain automatically switched to another target if the first one dies (this is so that he can better deal with raptors or krugs without having to cast 30 different drains). If this is too powerful vs champions this target switching thing could be only to monsters.

vodrio121 votes

{quoted}

I think these look like some pretty good QoL buffs, particularly the ult dmg ticks (which could also be applied to his drain potentially) and the idea of Drain draining mana instead of just one massive mana cost at the begninning no matter how long he actually uses.

Personally something that would EXTREMELY nice for fiddle in the new jungle is if drain automatically switched to another target if the first one dies (this is so that he can better deal with raptors or krugs without having to cast 30 different drains). If this is too powerful vs champions this target switching thing could be only to monsters.

thats a really nice idea

Meep Man8 votes

I don't want this thread to be so easily buried underneath the complaint threads

Squey2 votes

yes some QoL buffs for fiddle will be nice. I stoped playing jungle and switched to mid top when he started becoming harder and harder to play and keep up.

RocketRelm2 votes

I legit never knew he had 480 Auto Range. Why is this a thing?

Anyway, I feel like what should be implemented for QoL is…

Changing the auto range from 480 to 525 Changing the fear cast range from 525 to 575 Change the ultimate to tick once every 0.25 seconds

I'm not sure if 0.1 tick is a thing, but I know 0.25 tick is a thing. The range adjustments are fine, and it's not number buffs.

I'd suggest only implementing these buffs and letting Fiddle stew for a while, because they A, don't add new layers of complexity to his kit "oh his drain sometimes is a longer range, your crow is rewarded for not bouncing because Reasons", and B, the above three changes are things I would agree with happening even if fiddlesticks was strong, and if he became too strong just hit some numbers instead.

Igotlazy1 votes

That 480 range is a relic from a lost era.

Baron Perenolde2 votes

His "freeze" animation for his passive should also match that of his ult-channel pose; then he'd look like a real scarecrow.

RocketRelm2 votes

TBH, I kind of like the fact that you can freeze him in different postures. Now, if you wanted to add a way for him to take that pose, I'd be down for that.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

I was really looking forward to baiting people into flashing away by looking like I'm about to ult but then I found out it just freezes him mid animation. Sad times...

Shadow Hazard1 votes

Frankly the earlier attempt to give him a small buff this season really only brought him back into the lane for his mid and support roles being more viable. I know it may suck but maybe riot should pull an inverse of what they did for nid way back when and force him out of the jungle and let him stick with laning if that will make balancing him up easier.

Erockandroll1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shadow Hazard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KNIrLobX,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-01-25T19:53:01.499+0000)

Frankly the earlier attempt to give him a small buff this season really only brought him back into the lane for his mid and support roles being more viable. I know it may suck but maybe riot should pull an inverse of what they did for nid way back when and force him out of the jungle and let him stick with laning if that will make balancing him up easier.

Can't really say for SR, but I would have to agree with you given that I reached Mastery 5 on fiddle playing LotPK.

At the moment, I can only assume that his inability to perform in the Jungle is systemic of the current jungle. (Lack of camps with multiple enemies, etc) Yet I doubt that their is much room in his kit to put much overt power.

I also can't agree with OP's suggestions, as it doesn't really seem like changes that really help fiddle Jungle. Mainly the drain, giving it a lower mana cost that ramps up, would allow him to use that ability with too much impunity. (Also, is their any other DoT that ticks at the 0.1 mark? that sounds like it pushes the upper limit)

On a side note, I'm not sure how applicable my LotPK build is compared to SR, Crystal scepter isn't really a core item for me. My main two items on fiddle are Abyssal, and Proto belt.

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

Fiddle's problems are spread far and wide tbh. He is a "battle mage" like Swain and Vlad and such (short range and does "drain tank" to an extent), but lacks the reliability of both of them and is MUCH squishier than both of them (his heal is VERY unreliable since everyone can interrupt it nowadays). Fiddle also has fairly high ratios which allows him to very easily hyper carry if he gets ahead with his ult and such, however, due to his squishiness and short range he NEEDS to build somewhat bulky to not just get blown up whenever he hits R or just outdamaged through drain.

This isn't even considering the fact that Fiddle isn't the best solo laner (especially mid lane where you pretty much NEED to contribute waveclear) and the new jungle being complete ass for him (too many raptors for Dark Wind and Krugs splitting far too many times for Dark Wind to be up enough while Red Buff also just kicking your ass early on since it doesn't have negative MR anymore for drain).

Acheron161 votes

As long as he has a point and click instant long duration fear/stun he has no room for buffs in his kit.

2.25 seconds is a LOT of time to be stunned.

Meep Man1 votes

So even if he currently sucks/is underperforming, he can't be buffed?

50000000000000001 votes

Well it's true for champions like Aatrox who's horrible to play against. I think Fiddlesticks isn't on the "never buff" list.

Meep Man1 votes

True enough, although release Aatrox gave me nightmares while Fiddle never has personally, so I can see why Aatrox is like he is.

My Waifu Vanilla1 votes

Except no matter where you go you can't get away with maxing it first. Lane Fiddle pretty much NEEDS to max Dark Wind first and Jungle Fiddle pretty much has to max Drain AND Dark Wind before the fear. He isn't like Morgana that can get away with maxing their CC first because his simply doesn't do damage along side it which makes him next to useless if he decides to max it first (he would need someone ELSE to kill you during your fear since he would do ZERO damage if he was in a 1v1). The fear is only justified due to its inherently short range, being a fear, and 99% of the time not getting maxed until 18 (or 13 if you are really ambitious as Supportlesticks).

Meep Man1 votes

Actually, data suggests people that max Q second over Drain in the Jungle increase their win rate by at least 2.5%. Small, but it's data. However, this might be biased data (only Fiddlesticks that are already winning may be maxing Q first since they can afford to) so cross referencing may be required.

EDIT: Seems consistent enough, although exact numbers vary slightly.

Recruit Rush1 votes

{quoted}

As long as he has a point and click instant long duration fear/stun he has no room for buffs in his kit.

2.25 seconds is a LOT of time to be stunned.

TF can do that for 2 seconds from higher range, being tankier, faster and every 4 seconds he can pull another nuke-yellow card. Even having such kit TF does not need any nerf or any buff, Fiddles does need a buff asap.

Acheron161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pilila Sensual,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KNIrLobX,comment-id=00030002,timestamp=2017-02-23T19:51:16.806+0000)

TF can do that for 2 seconds from higher range, being tankier, faster and every 4 seconds he can pull another nuke-yellow card. Even having such kit TF does not need any nerf or any buff, Fiddles does need a buff asap.

Wrong, TF pays for that by having a situational ult with a huge cooldown. Also, if he uses Gold Card everytime it's up he'll be out of mana very quickly, he either has to trade with you or push, he can't do both.

Danjeng1 votes

That terrify buff is terrifying. Instant cast, +50 range on a very powerful point-click CC with no travel time is scary. Are you suggesting all these buffs at once?

Meep Man1 votes

Some are not necessary, but would be nice to have (E and R buffs in particular, the W leash on feared units one is cool but not needed).

The main ones I would really like to go through are the Q buffs and the first two W buffs. The AA range buff also just seems more like a "modernizing" thing for me.

Danjeng1 votes

First two W, E, and R I think are great changes. Q and W would be a lethal combo. Imagine just walking up to a an enemy unit, fearing them at max range, then draining them. They would move away from you because of fear, while you burn through their HP and you heal up yours. It would be impossible to fight back. If they do want to fight, by the time they walk back to you, their HP bar would be almost gone. 900 range is a lot, almost Leblanc level.

The current Fiddlesticks requires careful positioning to get into range. With 575 range, you already outrange many autoattack ranges. No need for good positioning, just walk right up and fear them then follow up with drain. Not much counterplay in that.

I know Fiddlesticks isn't very powerful at the moment, but changes like these could bring him over the top. While many people hate Yasuo or Rengar, I usually get beat down by Fiddlesticks. My end of Season 6 stats, my lowest winrate was against Fiddlesticks at 13%. For good reason, his silence is already obnoxious. Pair that up with one of the strongest CC's in the game- a targeted fear, and Drain, it already makes me dread facing a good one.

_May I suggest that if there are no nearby enemies, crows can bounce off Fiddlesticks, healing him for a small amount? Sort of like Ryze's old spell flux. _

Meep Man1 votes

Imagine just walking up to a an enemy unit, fearing them at max range, then draining them. They would move away from you because of fear, while you burn through their HP and you heal up yours. It would be impossible to fight back. If they do want to fight, by the time they walk back to you, their HP bar would be almost gone. 900 range is a lot, almost Leblanc level.

It would only be LeBlanc levels of tether range for about 2 seconds. Then they can perform whatever crowd control they have to itnerrupt Fiddlesticks and really rain on his parade. Fiddlesticks is an overestimated duelist in my eyes. Any CC stops his potential and his W is really the weakest part of his kit come late game.

The current Fiddlesticks requires careful positioning to get into range. With 575 range, you already outrange many autoattack ranges. No need for good positioning, just walk right up and fear them then follow up with drain. Not much counterplay in that.

Well, actually, due to how range is calculated, Fiddlesticks only outranges people with 500 or less basic attack range. Terrify is calculated in range from center to center while basic attacks are edge to edge. 525 champions would barely outrange his fear and everyone above could kite him with good practice. In reality, the current Terrify has about 460~ range (based on AA range) and the new one has about 510~ range (again based on AA).

I know Fiddlesticks isn't very powerful at the moment, but changes like these could bring him over the top. While many people hate Yasuo or Rengar, I usually get beat down by Fiddlesticks. My end of Season 6 stats, my lowest winrate was against Fiddlesticks at 13%. For good reason, his silence is already obnoxious. Pair that up with one of the strongest CC's in the game- a targeted fear, and Drain, it already makes me dread facing a good one.

Indeed, performing the entire list above without other changes would likely put him over the edge. However, I feel like a Fiddlesticks that got nerfed slightly due to the above changes BUT DID HAVE THE ABOVE CHANGES would be an overall better Fiddlesticks to play as due to his old kit's innate clunky nature.

May I suggest that if there are no nearby enemies, crows can bounce off Fiddlesticks, healing him for a small amount? Sort of like Ryze's old spell flux.

I thought about this, but Riot already tried this on the PBE before and then quickly removed it. I didn't want to put anything on the list that, based on the past, would be very unlikely of going through if suggested.

Danjeng1 votes

Oh, I misunderstood that the tether range would wear off after the fear ends. My mistake. Your changes seem reasonable enough, and I like how you explained them to me. I agree with them now +1.

What do you think about crows bouncing off Fiddlesticks?

Noxian Pride1 votes

One buff that was considered for a while apparantly and that sounds good to me is that if Dark Wind is used on a lone monster, it will bounce between fids and the monster.

Meep Man1 votes

That used to be in the PBE, but I think it was removed. I think it might have actually made Fiddlesticks have too quick of a clear since it made his E in solo camps actually extremely powerful, making him deal about 350 damage to a single monster with every cast of E from Level 1.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Eh. None of them are bad ideas on their own... but I feel that this is too big a buff with all of them together. I realize that none of it feels that big, but all of it is power positive, at the end of the day. He's not weak enough to merit buffs on all 4 abilities.

Meep Man1 votes

I edited the main post to point out that the main ones I want are the Q buffs and the first half of the W buffs. All the rest are just "How can Fiddlesticks be smoother to play?" suggestions that, while perhaps not necessary, would make him feel better.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Oh, they would all definitely make him much smoother, and much more fun. Kudos on that.

But, it was only two seasons ago (pre-jungle rework) that fiddlesticks was a CRAZY strong pick for experienced fiddlers. I realize we are only talking theoretically, but if Riot did all 4, we would have good reason to fear the nerf bat.

I think your changes would go over quite well if...

Q- would need a slight reduction on fear duration to make up for higher reliability W- simple damage decrease in exchange for reliability E- Eh, this might work, actually R- another slight damage nerf to make up for better sensitivity

Now, if you implement those, we are looking at a MUCH improved fiddles, for both players and opponents. I suspect, though, that a rework may be on the horizon for our straw-bodied amigo. We'll see how this blog post comes, but I have high hopes that he and Eve are reasonably high on the list, along with Morde and Urgot.

Meep Man1 votes

I suspect, though, that a rework may be on the horizon for our straw-bodied amigo. We'll see how this blog post comes, but I have high hopes that he and Eve are reasonably high on the list, along with Morde and Urgot.

Well, I can assure you that Fiddlesticks is not in the next 3 VGUs if he is on the list. Urgot, Evelynn, Nunu, and Morde are all OVERALL in more need than him. However, I can see Riot reworking Fiddlesticks in the future to a decent extent, likely scrapping his Q, performing a decent rework to his E, and Passive changes at the very minimum.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

I don't disagree, but they've said before if a designer has a great idea on a champ that's further down the list, they'll move with it anyway. Nunu is another good one, but I'd rather they do the ones that they have a good vision on than just the ones that are bad now.

As we saw with Shen, just doing it because it was bad before isn't always a good idea. I want them to wait until they have something worth doing, like they did with Yorick and Warwick.

Hunted90001 votes

Fuck fiddlesticks.

Lol I honestly hate that champ ,but your w changes do look very healthy for him but I would recommend lowering that initial cost, because having that plus the channel mana cost is just a bit too mana heavy, unless his drain turned into a mana drain too which would actually be pretty interesting for his character.

Meep Man1 votes

The initial mana cost and the drain equal up the current mana cost after 5 full seconds. 30 + 10 per second for 5 seconds is 80. 30 + 12 per second for 5 seconds is 90. So on and so forth. Basically, he would only be as mana heavy as he currently is unless he got stunned during his W or did not complete it, making him less mana heavy.

Chroud1 votes

I like your suggestions BUT.....

Hes not struggling in the jungle as much as some say he is.

I am able to Clear Blue, go Gromp, Wolves and lvl 3 gank bot before the bot lane is even lvl 3.

(Just spamming ablities in the jungle is not the way to clear jungle on fiddlesticks. Example.

Blue buff ---Save Smite Gromp Use-Smite Wolves- E and W the Alpha wolf so that the big dawg gets most of the DMG.

Boom lvl 3 faster then bot lane...

Also Start with the following items to help with early mana issues this should take care of this problem completely.

item 1004 item 1039 + Blue = More time in the field getting CS and more time Ganking.

Were i think people are struggling with fiddle sticks currently is build path and mysteries used.

Also while in the jungle we need to decide if were gonna be a gank heavy early game or hard farm CS early game. We currently do not have the pleasure of doing both.

Meep Man1 votes

Most Junglers get Level 3 faster than Bottom Lane is the thing and then gank and farm a ton. Fiddlesticks is currently limited to one or the other AND his early game ganking is fairly reliant on a very large cool down for great results.

Chroud1 votes

Ive noticed most Fiddle players go W >E >W

I always go W >E>Q

Q bot lane Toss in a E THen a W .... yoru adc should be able to clean up this mess or you will get a kill..

*Save the E for when they see your ganking and they start running back to turret This will make your E bounce more off the champions and will be far enough away from there minions.

I am not reliant on his lvl 6 ult to gank as his fear and silence is OP.

Going against a mid gank?

come from behind when the mid is playing in the middle of the field. let the mid know your coming to gank.

now surprise him with a (Flash) Q >> E >> W

Boom you and mid just got a little more points.

AdeBug1 votes

I really like Fiddle, but these are way too many changes, you cannot know how at least 1 will impact him, so suggesting all his abilities to be buffed is ridiculous. His E is strong as it is, was buffed when he was already raping the backline in ARAM, therefore I don't agree with increasing the base range either. And reducing the cd when no bounces just for his jg clear doesn't make sense to me, for single targets: Q W aa, np. Silencing it (??) with some dmg is a waste of mana.

What I would like FIXED about his R is the preview and the actual location of the 'otw' ping. Yes, you can travel farther over certain walls, but the real position of your landing is never truly shown, just takes practice, and pinging the otw in the wrong place can be misleading for the team mate you're ganking for.

His passive could also be buffed, because I still can't catch up all my targets when ulting, with the teeny speed boost, I find myself flashing quite often just to get in range, and am considering protobelt.

AdeBug1 votes

I had reservations coming back here to add stuff, since it went off radar, but here goes: The reason Q will always be shorter than W, range wise, is because the fear will send them in random directions farther from you, after which they will walk away, more often than not. Even if you had same range on em, then you would Q from your suggested range and insta W that will not last long and would be a waste of mana and cd.

WolfBV1 votes

Dear god yes.

Jefftiffy1 votes

Actually I think the AA range being low is because he was a support pick in Season 3. A very big reason as to why his crow and his AAs are all so gimped. But that was back before gold gen items for supports.

Meep Man1 votes

His AA range hasn't changed since his release though

sobi9991 votes

I always fear when i see an enemy fiddle. I am even more scared now seeing the likes on this post.

More from Gameplay

More by Meep Man