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"Expect 8.4 leaves her quite weak. Would rather risk overnerfing and fix after at this point though"

lolipopevelynn··6 votes·732 views

in reference to Zoe im so tired of riots strategy to release Overpowered champions and then gut them into being unusable and leave them there for months upon months at a time. they did it with kench, they did it with syndra, they did it with azir, they did it with irvern, they did it with nidalee, they did it with ryze. this shit has got to stop... i dont know what their balance philosophy is, but it is flawed. this is NOT how you fix a champion.

i mean for GODS sake her winrate isnt even that high and you are butchering her this much because she one shots people with less than 1.8k HP? this is assassins all over again. the reason assassins a re so weak RIGHT NOW is because of these complaints of not letting a class canon one shot another glass canon... ridiculous.

a MUCH healthier and safer nerf on zoe would have been to nerf her Q range and remove the trap circle her E leaves behind completely. there, the majority of peoples complaints have been dealt with without gutting her down to 30% WR. if you REALLY still insist on touch her damage then her E should be converted into magic damage rather than true damage. another healthy nerf as people can now properly build defenses against her damage without having to change any numbers on her kit.

24 Comments

Slythion12 votes

I mean, the champion design itself is such absolute shit there's really nothing they can do but jump between complete cancer and complete uselessness

SwiftKitten881 votes

{quoted}

I mean, the champion design itself is such absolute shit there's really nothing they can do but jump between complete cancer and complete uselessness

yeah lets take everything wrong with old nidalee and amplify it three times and make it a new champ

Rioter one: spears dont doe aoe? no problem we can make it aoe!!! long as you have minion between you you're fine? nah lets make her able to change the direction of her q to go at angles nid had mana issues in lane? well we can prevent that by having zoes skill not cost much mana nid could sustain in lane? yeah but it cost her mana, and it wasn't rng enough. lets make her pick up summoners spells and item actives like item 3107 !!! and nid has no form of cc? well we cant have that.. lets give her the strongest cc in the game and mage it a damage amp with true damage!!!

Rioter two: umm sir doesn't that sounds kinda op? didn't we rework nid in 4.10 to kinda stop her from doing all that?

Rioter one: Nah... she cant jump walls like nid!!! it'll be fine!!!

KVbqbFsC8e5 votes

When such a poorly designed champion is released anyway, what do you expect?

lolipopevelynn2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Big Piece,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KJL0mbc5,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-02-18T21:52:33.747+0000)

When such a poorly designed champion is released anyway, what do you expect?

i expect them to MAN UP, admit they FUCKED UP, and make kit changes rather than nerfing numbers as low as they possibly can. thats what i expect, but apparently they are too afraid to do that. they have done it before with lucian (back when his E use to remove slows) and with kindred. they also did it with ekko to an extent.

paisy1 votes

But they have..

When she casts Portal Jump Portal Jump while a Paddle Star is active, the star's travel range now changes when Zoe reappears at the cast location, rather than as soon as Portal Jump Portal Jump is cast.

The timing of Paddle Star Q - Paddle Star Q - Portal Jump R combo is less forgiving.

Cooldown now begins after Q cast completes, not when it begins.

Duration of spell pick-ups from minions reduced to 20 seconds from 40.

Cooldown refunds on champion hit, rather than against all targets.

Minions can no longer drop shards for Hextech Gunblade.

Ahristocats5 votes

{quoted}

and make kit changes

so what they're doing in next patch?

E sleep will no longer be triggered if slow is cleansed W doesn't drop teleport Q doesn't apply passive in AOE but only on one target

?

Also, number changes can make a champ healthier, in zoe's case her Q damage is being halved and her passive+W passive damage are being buffed

lolipopevelynn3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Je suis Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KJL0mbc5,comment-id=000300000001,timestamp=2018-02-18T22:05:04.049+0000)

so what they're doing in next patch?

E sleep will no longer be triggered if slow is cleansed W doesn't drop teleport Q doesn't apply passive in AOE but only on one target

?

Also, number changes can make a champ healthier, in zoe's case her Q damage is being halved and her passive+W passive damage are being buffed

when i say "kit change" im talking about a mini rework. Basically onlong the same lines as what they did with Kindred passive and how her stacks worked. in zoe's case her Q works almost identically to how Old nidales's spear use to work. they need to change that mechanic entirely.

Z3Sleeper2 votes

{quoted}

in zoe's case her Q works almost identically to how Old nidales's spear use to work. they need to change that mechanic entirely. And that's exactly what's happening next patch, changes, not just numbers.

I disagree. She needs changes but no one part of her kit is solely responsible for her outrageous performance.

And FYI, Nidalee's spear still functions like that.

Also you just pointed at Lucian as an example of kit changes. They removed his slow removal, that's not a mini-rework.

FOR JUSTICE3 votes

the nerf isn't even that bad though tbh. she just gets no teleport and loses the damage from her passive procs on targets beyond the first hit.

greekvandaL2 votes

i'd be happy if they never released her tbh and worked harder on more reworks.

Dope Solo2 votes

Yeah but they're finally nerfing chunkbitch.

Mahou Chinchin2 votes

Zoe has the illusion of being more unfair than she is. Thats a death sentence to a champion

Malix Farwin1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mahou Chinchin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KJL0mbc5,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2018-02-18T23:08:27.476+0000)

Zoe has the illusion of being more unfair than she is. Thats a death sentence to a champion

That in my eyes is probably still a kit design failure, if you cannot tell her weak point then it is almost the same as having no weakpoint i suppose. i mean i had a game where the md lane talon kept saying i can one shot him as i hit him with max range Qs doing 1/5 his life while he had 0 MR.

Mahou Chinchin1 votes

That's not really what I meant. When I say she has the illusion of being unfair its because 1. She does her burst all at once and 2. She punishes something people aren't used to being punished for (summoners) Even though other champions do more damage, you get to watch your health bar go down in chunks instead of all at once. Even though other champs are better at chasing, no other champ can chase BECAUSE you flash. I feel like removing Tele from minions was a good call and they should also remove the hextech items because of the crazy base damage at level 2, but her damage is all she had and it isn't even that great.

Rasdaan1 votes

One game somebody was complaining about zoe being super op...they didn't even bother building a single magic resist item.

I would rather go against zoe than a brand, or a veigar.

ZapMyHeart1 votes

{quoted}

One game somebody was complaining about zoe being super op...they didn't even bother building a single magic resist item.

I would rather go against zoe than a brand, or a veigar.

She does bonus true damage when you are tagged with E. Could sidestep that bitch's bubble all game long and all you have to do is accidentally nick it 30 minutes in and you are dead in one go. So much for building MR.

Malix Farwin1 votes

As a Zoe main i am okay with this, just want to play her. At worst her kit still allows for her to be sorta a support mid.

lolipopevelynn1 votes

If you guys think zoe is bad just wait untill Brand is picked with the new AP item changes. Enjoy

Xion The XIV1 votes

It depends on the user. I have had Zoe one shotting other players and it was fun. I have also had games where Zoe was garbage to the point I wished they would go afk.

ImGodlyatYasuo1 votes

its the same reason they reworked azir a good azir was unstoppable but a bad one was utter trash only problem is zoe is a lot easier to learn then azir and not as hard to master so around 20 games with her if you are silver - gold and you could be a godly zoe and aroudn 10 plat-diamond you could be a godly zoe and around 2-5 master-challenger you would be unstoppable POlus lack of counterplay like nid Q one shots from fow

Colton1471 votes

Release Camille item 3070

Z3Sleeper1 votes

It's not a strategy, they legitimately thought she was a balanced champion who only needed minor number tweaks. They were very, very wrong.

But they've definitely done the complete opposite with just as many champions in the past.

Hell, Ornn is a super recent example.

Śhunpo1 votes

W not giving Teleport is obnoxious. Nothing is more demoralising than the RNG gods making you lose lane.

E (the sleep) NEEDED a nerf, and it NEEDED the bugfix to cleanse abilities.

Q not applying passive AOE is fine, now Zoe has to actually weave autos into her combo.

rework trundle1 votes

Her concept as a whole is flawed, I hate to say this but you should play someone else. You'll never be able to play a version of Zoe that isn't toxic unless they rework her.

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