AP Shaco doesnt deserve those nerfs because counter building punishes him even more than before

Darth Sidiouss··3 votes·590 views

item 1402 item 3100 pretty much is the core on AP Shaco i play it personally which is why i feel relevant at all with this post, and i can explain the pros and cons as too why its not as good as you think it is.

#Pros

  • Great finisher. Any squishy target with less than 20% HP is pretty much nuked.

THATS IT. LITERALLY that's all its good for even with item 3151 his W isnt nothing significant with it compared to other AP users who could abuse this further ... TeemoRumble

#Cons

  • Zero wave clear. You could never push a lane decently without your Ult.
  • Epic monsters are much harder to solo. You have no AD so your autos are tickles to drake and baron your forced to ult or you get killed.
  • Counter Itemization REALLY fucks you up since you already have no AD going AP, a simple MR item such as item 3065 totally cock blocks any potential all in you could try. Any smart bruiser or tank can easily make you their slave for the rest of the games duration.

#And there you have it folks dont be fooled by statistics.

9 Comments

RexSaur3 votes

Shaco is still broken even after the nerfs.

Big Lincoln1 votes

good luck trying to get ADCs to not build 6 full damage items so they can survive a combo

Touch My Box1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KENU3EIH,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-12-22T15:11:46.591+0000)

good luck trying to get ADCs to not build 6 full damage items so they can survive a combo

They don't even have to. item 3190 + item 3072 is enough.

Jezebelle1 votes

Nidalee knows a lot about this, but no one complained when everything in her kit was nerfed significantly over season 6...

Touch My Box1 votes

The problem was they nerfed the wrong things as usual, so now he is just as strong mid game as he was, but now he has no late game assassination potential, because as the Shaco players pointed out; His damage wasn't coming from his own kit, it was crutch items like item 3146 item 3100 item 1402 .

I've recently abandoned AP shaco and build him sunfire/steraks/tiamats and just focus on farming and objective control.

You can solo everything and everyone, just a normal tanky/bruiser champ. It's much more successful now.

Tukan Tonko1 votes

This is funny thing. People think it's okay when he is slightly OP, but guess what, people who mastered Shaco are terrifying and they also have whopping win rate on him. And they will still be terrifying, even after nerfs and even if there was another nerfs. They will always be, guess why? Shaco is a champion that can, in goo hands, deny anything from enemy team. Just his presence in match forces people to think differently, and mentality is a big part of the game, even if you think it isn't. After assassins rework his win rate was really high, second highest. In. Every. Single. League. And that's something you must consider. He really, really needed a nerf. Even with nerfs he is still great. I don't know much about Shaco, I didn't even play him after the nerfs but I have seen him and he still does very good with AP builds. So I can't tell if he got a bad nerf or good nerf. But in my opinions, this nerf was fine.

Also, what do you mean by "dont be fooled by statistics." ? Statistics are everything. They are the reason why champions gets nerfs/buffs. They show you if a champion is good now, how he performs. His win rate is still good, his damage is brutal as always and no, you don't get countered by just one item. And even if it was true, you can still buy mpen.

No, AP Shaco doesn't have much waveclear, he is an assassin, he is here to kill people, not to split push. That's why he is jungle. If you want to splitpush go AD. Yes, epic monsters are hard to kill solo, Shaco is not the only jungler that may require help, but he have easier time doing them because of his ult, w. And, finally, no, tanky bruisers won't enslave you, because you are assassin, you job is to kill carries, not frontline, you can avoid them, that's why you have your Q, R. Even so, Shaco now has more tools to fight tanks - E.

Those were the cons, now let's go back to pros.

  • Great counter-jungle potencial.
  • Great escape, if played well you are almost unkillable, if you don't get nuked, this is even easier now because of invisibility changes.
  • Great ganks.
  • He has great presence in map, and if he is not seen for a while, every lane will play differently.
  • He is not only a good finisher, but he can also burst carries pretty well.
  • His clone and mindgames. This is huge, don't underestimate it.
Darth Sidiouss1 votes

Your talking about Shaco overall on the rift. Im just laying out why hes not that strong going AP alone. Yes as you pointed out hes an assassin he has to kill people and get away that's all core for assassins. But assassins are also squishy and can die as well. Right now hes just abusing two items , wither or not hes dominating in higher elo by pros or one trick mains, perhaps the skill ceiling for him has raised that much further because they took away his early power in the in roaster update and now he has a viable AP build path.

The other thing to consider is hes not the king of the jungle anymore there far more cancerous shit out there than him that can punish your team for missing an objective or a miss position far beyond Shaco . Lastly in higher elo the map awareness is much much much more present and people know and most likely played Shaco personally by that elo so they know his weakness and his cool downs which are windows to punish him and right now if you build any MR item against him when hes going AP, he is completely useless. So if riot has to nerf anything about him, it would have to be his core assassin shit not his AP ratios which will dumpster him.

Tukan Tonko1 votes

Haven't seen AD Shaco recently, so yeah, I am talking about Shaco in general, so mostly about AP Shaco at this moment. He may die, every assassin can die easily. But he has more tools to keep him safe while counter-jungling, while ganking or while flanking someone. How many champions are abusing some items right now?

TwistedFate item 3100 - for ages now. Akali item 3100 item 3146 item 1414 - same as Shaco Ezreal item 3042 item 3025 // item 3078 Kennen item 3152 item 3157

What's wrong with them?

Yeah, there are better junglers than him, even Teemo can be a very good jungler in good hands. That's how it is. Shaco is still a very, very good pick. And still, even with better map awarness, knowing the champion well he has very high win ratio in higher elos. He is not bronze, he is as well in higher elo and he as well know more. They are even more scarry in higher elos, trust me.

Also, have you seen Shaco after assassins rework? His E was broken. He could literally chunk 1/2 of tanks HP. Yes, with MR items. MR reduces damage for every single AP champion, not just Shaco. And carries will not build much MR items. 1 is just enought for them. And Shaco with 300 AP will kill any squishy target with his all-in. He has damage to make it possible. He just need to use it smartly. He was OP, you can't deny that and he needed a nerf. His win rate was really, really high for champion which have higher skill ceiling. Right now he is somewhat still very good and not bad, not exactly balanced but a lot better than before the nerfs.

Incarceration1 votes

I just wanna buff AD again. Both Shaco's were extremely fun, but I feel like AD was too weak.

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