New Satchel Charge executes turrets below 25%HP. What were you thinking? Pair that with new early dragon buffs and turrets are gone in no time. Like seriously, if there was a time to buff turrets to both deal more damage and be tankier straight up, now's the time.
Edit: Loool, it's 35%HP execute, AND you can do that to both inhib turrets at once, this has gotta be a joke.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqbg8ZVotSA&feature=youtu.be
RiotRiot Sotere17 votesWe have some changes in to make them (turrets) feel more threatening.
Deep Terror Nami8 votesHow about Ohmwrecker? I think it deserves some attention! XD
GaleWinUnleashed5 votesWhat's Ohmwrecker? Can I eat it?
ModWulf Helhammer10 votesNew item: Omnomnomwrecker.
Purchasable only on Tahm, Cho'Gath, Trundle, and Nunu. Allows them to eat turrets and digest stone.
Daxanater2 votesand voli
Irelia Bot2 votesGive Ohmwrecker the old Fortify summoner spell as a defensive single target active and it will be bought.
SrbLud1 votesFInally. YEEEESSSSSSSSS....... [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]
Sariat13 votesHow about making turrets deal true damage? It wouldn't affect how it clears minions because they have 0 armor anyways, and it would make early tower dives a little bit harder. That and change abilities like Fizz's playful/trickster to being able to be hit by turrets.
The Cane Master1 votesI like the idea, especially since laser turrets (inhib and nexus ones) haven't received buff and are tickling even marksman who are the squishiest.
Shuyin1781 votesHow about making turrets deal true damage? It wouldn't affect how it clears minions because they have 0 armor anyways, and it would make early tower dives a little bit harder. That and change abilities like Fizz's playful/trickster to being able to be hit by turrets.
I actually made a topic today making a suggestion to change Playful/Trickster's untargetability to full CC immunity. he keeps his mobility and damage, but makes him less safe and have to play smarter. In addition he is pretty much immune to CC anyways while on his troll pole.
Corriandr2 votesOther than their amping up on damage earlier? If you have more buffs coming out for turrets, I would have announced those first before this, because this...I'll be honest here, this is seemingly a really, really blatant middle finger to those that have been calling out the issue of turrets having all the consistency of wet paper, and hitting about just as hard. So if you could expand upon your statement, i'd be really grateful.
Edit: Ok, so, I saw the turret changes. Base health reduced to 3300 from 4000, but given 40 A/MR. Now, I'm not exactly a math major, but using the armor formula on your wiki...without a minion wave, turrets are squishier, with a minion wave, they have about an effective +400 health. Unless the opponent has 20 armor/magic penetration, then they're squishier....
Eeeeeeehhhhh.....It's an improvement, we're getting there. Think you can increase that 3300 to, say, 3600? An ideal world would be 4000, but, small steps.
InHaruhiWeTrust1 voteswhy not just let him deal a much smaller amount of dmg to turrets with satchel charge at all times like azir W?
RiotRiot Sotere2 votesActually had it tied to his Q for awhile. The lower impact and consistent pace made it significantly less exciting than this model.
La Bello1 votes[{quoted}](name=Riot Sotere,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KBdsKZEA,comment-id=000000040000,timestamp=2016-04-20T01:21:01.761+0000)
Actually had it tied to his Q for awhile. The lower impact and consistent pace made it significantly less exciting than this model.
can you guys make his Ult have a static travel time ?
InHaruhiWeTrust2 votesi'm just afraid that it will cause a lot of frustration in games with ziggs where you always fear being dove once your tower gets below 40% or so and towers feel even less safe than they do currently. i personally don't have as much a problem with towers currently as most people, but executing towers at 25% seems scary to me. i REALLY like the idea of ziggs having this "demolisher" theme though.
edit: 35% = even scarier
The Cane Master2 votes35% unfortunately, take a look at the video above.
SiriusSky31 votesdoes his ult cd deduce when ever it level up?
SiriusSky31 votesziggs ult was 63 cd at rank 2 with 40% cdr that mean that it's cd will be 105s without any cdr. Is it true that ziggs ult have cd of 120/105/90 ?
patmax174 votesWhen i read about the change I thougt it would be turret-targeted, i.e. he casts his W on the turret and the turret blows up, instead of casting the normal W. As it seems now, he normally casts W and if it happens to blow up next to a low-health turret, it takes the turret down. But it still does AOE damage and knockup. Would you consider making it turret-single-targeted like Azir's W? Or, maybe better, he casts the bomb ON the turret (like tristana E)? maybe without the knockup (and maybe without the possibility to make it blow up early by reactivating the skill)
RiotRiot Sotere4 votesDefinitely considered it and it's not off the table but there're a few reasons I wanted to keep as is. There's less added complexity this way: there's no alternate way to cast the spell. There's no room for miscasting. There's also the benefit of doubling up on impact: hit turret and enemy champion to improve safety.
The use case for throwing it nearby a turret for destruction purposes feels pretty distinct (you don't accidentally blow up turrets with any frequency from what I've seen).
Quepha2 votes[{quoted}](name=Riot Sotere,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KBdsKZEA,comment-id=00000004000000040000,timestamp=2016-04-20T18:11:27.090+0000)
There's also the benefit of doubling up on impact: hit turret and enemy champion to improve safety.
The AoE is also large enough to detonate both nexus turrets if they're both in execute range.
patmax173 votesYes, it's clearly shown in the video :)
patmax171 votesOk, thanks for the reply
Just one more thing: i thought the new use-case was allowed to be so powerful because ziggs now had to choose to either use his W to take down the turret or keep it as a disengage tool. This way, he can still use it on the turret while knocking his enemies back. Doesn't this make this choice (to use W for turrets) a lot safer (than what I initially thought)?
RiotRiot Sotere1 votesPotentially safer than you originally thought. It's still a pretty big trade-off. The CD on W is long, and if you think you're in any danger of being aggressed upon you often hold it for the double knock-away (enemy and yourself) to create extra distance.
The Yetii Rider1 votes[{quoted}](name=Riot Sotere,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KBdsKZEA,comment-id=0000000400000004000000010000,timestamp=2016-04-20T23:17:02.572+0000)
Potentially safer than you originally thought. It's still a pretty big trade-off. The CD on W is long, and if you think you're in any danger of being aggressed upon you often hold it for the double knock-away (enemy and yourself) to create extra distance.
But that's equating a single kill for the enemy team with a tower. A tower gives lots of local gold, some global and also increases damage resistance for lane minions. A kill is a selfish act that gets you some gold and XP.
SiriusSky31 votesdid ziggs ult cd reduce when it level up?
The Cane Master1 votesHonestly, the biggest problems are the way inhibitor and nexus turrets behave. Now when it's tank meta people can just straight up dive whenever, even without lane minions to swap aggro with and get away with it without even getting low. Like cmon, inhibitor and nexus turrets should be the safest zones to stay around, not the least.
Dediguise6 votesoh wow an ap champion receiving a thematically appropriate buff that also gives him a powerful strategic niche at the expense of his only escape. Everybody lose their fucking minds. Changing one champions interaction with turrets does not nerf turrets every game. It makes picking that champion a strategic decision, that YOU have to play around. If you fail to adapt to that then you are the one screwing up.
I think it's awesome that a mage is being given the identity as a pusher rather then just being relied on to counter siege comps. Maybe 25% is a little high. But the ability is an excellent addition to the game. Numbers can always be changed.
Villiers3 votesIts 35%. Is anyone even watching this video
Boomerangbro4 votesLet's be honest here. How many times have you seen a Ziggs in ranked these days? How many times will you see a Ziggs in ranked this next patch?
Good. He's only going to be picked if the game needs to go over 40 minutes long which is very rare, so his playrate will increase by like 2%.
Xonra2 votes[{quoted}](name=Invincible champ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KBdsKZEA,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-04-20T02:25:47.032+0000)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqbg8ZVotSA&feature=youtu.be
This honestly just makes me sad more than anything, that someone at Riot went "Ya know, games are snowbally, towers suck, so how about we make ziggs...of all random champs, just destroy them outright at 25% (or 35%?) hp." and someone else went "thumbs up good job".
Not frustrated. Not Salty. Not mad. Just...sad that this is somehow okay in the mind of at LEAST 2 people that work for Riot. As if towers weren't useless enough right now, let's start giving champs ways to kill turrets even faster because "reasons".
Meep Man2 votesI mean, whatever. Ziggs isn't a huge problem now and after this, only a slight problem really.
Quantum Lotus1 votesEarth elemental dragon?
GaleWinUnleashed1 votesThat only works if there's nobody nearby to deter Ziggs. If he blows his only hard CC/escape to kill a turret, he's toast unless he has allies nearby or the enemy is a mile away. High risk, high reward, and it's certainly an interesting concept. They can always drop the percentage if it turns out to be too strong.
3TWarrior1 voteswell, it also gives power to his split-pushing and ability to push mid-lane when the opponent is gone
25% is a large chunk considering a turret is worth a death in terms of the game overall
and then you get one third of a death's value from the turret for everyone on your team
ViashinoWizard1 votesNew Satchel Charge executes turrets below 25%HP.
Excuse me, it quite clearly Hexblodes them.
The Cane Master1 votesYeah, just using fancy words makes game features justified. :)
MrLlamaWaffle1 votesMeanwhile Fiddlesticks gets a new useless passive, 2 nerfs, and some QoL changes to his ult....