@Riot @meddler, What is your view on Gangplanks interaction with Crit Chance and Bandit Abuse?

Sahn Uzal·Sep 17, 2016·10 votes·1,157 views

As some of y'all might know, I've made a few threads where I talked about Gangplanks interaction with Crit chance as a stat, and why it's flawed. And a thread talking about his Gold Plunder passive, and his abuse of the Bandit mastery.

Now I can keep making threads, and other people can keep making threads about the same subjects...

But I'm wondering, what's Riots point of view on those things? Are you guys completely fine with them? Would you like to fix them 'someday'? Would you like to fix them in the preseason?

Also, now that I'm making this thread anyway, are you planning to do anything with Gangplank at all in the near future/preseason? Or do you think he's fine as he is? -_- Keep a weather eye out,

-Tidal Tyrant.

13 Comments

Over InnsmouthSep 17, 20162 votes

Let the wind always be behind your sails, friend.

Personally, I think that Plunder is a super core part to Gangplank's thematic, however it does cause problems for game health in that he's super hard to keep down, and once he gets away with a gold lead he wrecks havoc. This is a case where game health should trump thematic cohesion, so I think Plunder should go.

Zero Skill TankSep 17, 20161 votes

Plunder is only a problem because current GP's kit makes it virtually impossible for most toplaners, melee and ranged alike, to make an aggressive play on him. Unless camped, he can safely farm in all but worst scenarios.

Bonus last hit gold isn't a problem in itself IMO.

MLDzXnRRRSep 17, 20162 votes

It's funny that GP got base stats nerfs after the rework and the tankplank and bruiserplank got gutted after abuse at the Worlds/ LCS, so the only viable way to play is critplank. Have you ever played GP pre-rework? He was dealing way more dmg (1shot Q was possible, now you can never do it) and he was way tankier, but he was considered trash. Soon we will reach the point where the rework is way more weaker than the pre-rework GP and people will report you for picking him like they did before...

No wonder that people hate when RITO reworks champions and then destroys them after a few months.

Xel MeshifSep 17, 20161 votes

I miss old critplank. Was so much fun to play.

MLDzXnRRRSep 17, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Xel Meshif,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KAFhsddF,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2016-09-17T18:41:28.668+0000)

I miss old critplank. Was so much fun to play.

He was one of the funniest champions - the voiceover and the visuals were just...

Also noone knew what items to get on him outside of the crit build, so people were experimenting with blue, fighter, ap or even support builds (and every build was horrible, because the champion was too RNG based).

Teridax68Sep 17, 20162 votes

I think the only major problem with Gangplank that can be directly traced to the champion himself is his bonus gold generation, and I think his Plunder should just limit itself to Silver Serpents. As for the rest of his kit, I think the main problems actually come from the game systems it's tied to, rather than his own abilities: the mastery system complicates balance on a whole slew of champions without really providing that much gameplay of its own (e.g. Bandit giving GP even more of an income advantage, and Grasp of the Undying giving him too much poke before that), and I think we're at a point where it might just be better to get rid of it entirely. Crit is a system that should have been overhauled with the Marksman Update in order to be non-random, and I think that still needs to happen in the future so that Gangplank's power can stop being such a coin flip in a competitive setting.

To an extent, I think Riot is aware of this too, and doesn't want to really touch Gangplank that much because they're committed to preserving as much of his pre-rework identity as they can. Plunder is definitely something they should adjust soon, but beyond that I hope they rework crit in a subsequent update, and remove masteries in Preseason 7, both of which would go towards "fixing" Gangplank, along with many other champions and aspects of the game, without taking away from his quirks. There are probably some gameplay tweaks he could use beyond that (his barrels could be made simpler for both him and his opponent, and could probably also use a bit more counterplay versus melee champions), but in spite of his current issues, his current kit is mostly pretty healthy.

Sahn UzalSep 18, 20161 votes

I agree with most of the points you made, however, I doubt Riot will remove the mastery system. I'd like to see them change Bandit to an On Attack passive rather than On-Hit. (Think item 3124 ) It wouldn't affect melee supports at all, the only champions it would affect are Yasuo Fiora Irelia Fizz And none of these guys SHOULD be taking the Bandit mastery :P They should most likely get rid of his Gold Plunder, but I honestly think his Powder Kegs have more than enough counterplay as they are. I've played as and against Gangplank, I don't find him a hard toplaner to play against because I can time the Powder Kegs :P

Teridax68Sep 18, 20161 votes

That's true, making Bandit on-attack could be a simple enough fix to the Gangplank problem without affecting the champions it's meant to cater to.

My main issue with Powder Kegs, aside from their current crit interaction, is how you can "dodge" the innate delay on a Keg by laying one down next to you, and setting it off just as you lay another down next to your opponent. Sure, there's still a fair bit of telegraphing going on, and ranged champions can easily just shoot the initial keg, but melee champions can't without forcing a trade, and if a barrel's already laid down and ready to blow, they can't move in range to disable it without running the risk of getting chunked. It's perhaps not the biggest issue around, but it does contribute to making Gangplank a lane bully in some matchups when he already scales very well into the late game.

Sahn UzalSep 18, 20161 votes

On one hand, I can see where you're coming from. On another hand, whenever I lane against a Gangplank, I rarely get hit by a keg. I either walk up and last hit it before they get the chance to, or I'll walk up and walk back so he misses it. It's propably because I'm experienced with the champ, but I find it extremely easy and effective to abuse his weaknesses Especially when you force him to ult himself instead of another lane ;p

ModWulf HelhammerSep 17, 20161 votes

I saw the one on bandit, but what exactly is his problem with crit chance?

Sahn UzalSep 17, 20167 votes

Crit chance as a mechanic can be considered acceptable on an ADC, because they consistantly AA people. Crit chacne is only psuedo random, so an ADC with 50% crit chance will deal about 150% damage with their AA's (unless you have an IE :P)

Gangplank tries to crit once or twice in a fight, he just wants that one big combo. In that situation, RNG reliance is ... not healthy. Imagine if Viktor 's E dealt 50% less damage, but has a 50% chance to deal massivly increased damage. Doesn't seem like an improvement, does it? :P

Sona x RubickSep 17, 20161 votes

Crit sucks on everyone who aren't constantly autoattacking

how to fixe it: 20% crit, if we do the expected value, it's 100% bonus AD*0.2 (20% chance)=20% damage increased 20% crit would increase your AD by 20%

100% crit would increase your AD by 100% that way, you wouldn't rely on RNG if you have 20 or 30% crit.