New Jungle does not reward certain playstyles

Nin10do0014··5 votes·639 views

Riot has promised us diversity within the Jungle, but that seems to be a false promise as of now. The current Jungle not only beats the crap out of the majority of Junglers on the first clear, but it also hinders certain playstyles of the Jungle.

There has been the classic three types of Junglers: Farmers, Controller, and Ganker

The Farmer, as it implies, focuses on farming the Jungle as efficiently as possible in order to have the most stable income of both gold and experience. Their strength lies within their teammates being able to fend for themselves while they slowly gain power though the Jungle creeps in order to come out of the Jungle ready to mow down anyone in their way. Currently, this style of Jungling is surprisingly rewarding as a Jungler is guaranteed to reach level 5 at around the 5:30-600 mark, which was standard in Season 4, and their income is less volatile than that of a Ganker or Controller.

Next is the Controller, who focuses on crippling the enemy Jungler. Traditionally, there was a rock-paper-scissors type of relationship where the Controller would naturally be weaker than the Farmer in terms of playstyle since the Farmer would have a higher chance of outfarming the Controller. The Farmer has knowledge of when creeps respawn; the Controller does not. However, this does not mean that the Controller is unviable; it means they must deal with the disadvantage of the Control playstyle and work harder to cripple the Farmer.

Lastly, we have the Ganker, who, as anyone can tell, focuses on crippling the laners and tries to force the Farmer out of the Jungle in order to help. The Ganker would go lane-to-lane to wreak havoc and have that as source of income and experience. However, the Season 5 Jungle does not favor the Gankers very well. Gankers, unlike the Farmer, do not need as much gold but need more experience instead. What makes this even worse is that Gankers do not gain sufficient experience from Assists or Kills. Consequentially, they will fall significantly far behind for making good plays for their team, like kills, early Dragons, and blown Summoner's. Hence, Gankers are having quite a rough time in the new Jungle right now.

Thus, the current Jungle favors Farmers quite more than the other two playstyles of Jungling right now, and I would like opinions on this topic. Whether you agree or disagree, please discuss below.

10 Comments

Nin10do00141 votes

Rant time: I did not want to put this in my post as I wished to keep my original post more professional, but I really felt frustrated so I am posting this rant for anyone who wishes to read.

I just played a game as a Ganker, and I made a lot of early plays in about 5 minutes. I have stolen the enemy's second Buff, gotten a quick Level 2 kill on Bot, killed Mid Lane after that, and secured my own buff. However, my Jungle opponent was still ahead in Experience even though I successfully executed quite a few plays early on. The Jungle does not reward significant plays such as securing kills. I am punished for making plays by not having as much experience as even a Farmer who lost her second buff.

What makes it even worse is that I secured another kill and Dragon in the next 3 minutes, but I was still Level 5. I personally believe that if I successfully help my team get ahead significantly, I should also be ahead as well, not punished for not farming the Jungle.

Again, I apologize for my rant, but I really believe I should have been rewarded for making several plays which benefited my team significantly.

2000boxes1 votes

but then those are sub categories for carry, utility, and tank junglers carry jungler are usually the farmers and utility and tank junglers usually are a mix of the other 2 categories

utility and tank junglers will always be tanky and will always have hard cc which is why amumu works really well in the new jungle and jaravan too

Nin10do00141 votes

While I'm not saying he doesn't fare well, even Jarvan suffers in the new Jungle due to the fact that he is not an efficient farmer until he gets Warrior on his Jungle Item. I've experienced it; Jarvan can steal the enemy's Buff, get First Blood, secure 2 more kills, and secure Dragon while still being level 5 at the 8 Minute mark.

Amumu, on the other hand, receives more benefits as he is an efficient farmer as long as he has Blue Buff. Even if he loses a lot of income from ganking, he can still catch up relatively easy because of his excellent farming kit.

SEKAI1 votes

Not really, the ganker is super effective on the already gank centric jg picks due to chilling smite.

In today's mobility meta I would say the farmer really isn't as effective as you might think, as the prime time for FF has already passed.

Counter jungler like camp stealers need to get buffed tho. No one gets Poacher.

Nin10do00141 votes

I do agree that the Control Jungler could use some love as they have trouble making anything happen.

But even with chilling Smite, I've had many games where I secure multiple kills but still end up significantly underleveled. Sometimes, I don't even have my Ultimate at the 10:00 mark because I have been everywhere on the map, securing kills and Dragons left and right.

You might be right on how mobility weakens the Farmer, but I would still argue that Farmers an easier time than the other two playstyles due to the stability of their Experience and Gold income.

SEKAI1 votes

The experience part I tend to agree, while I gank more I can be as much as 2 levels behind laners in the end and that's not a good thing.

But I think that's tied to the current jg giving too less of experience, I did try going farmer Yi and even Ranger just to farm the jungle non-stop as my team was basically winning anyway, I also farmed the enemy jungle slightly when he was pushed out, even then I was still 1 level behind my team.

I think the jungle can get some experience buff tbh.

But if we were to assume the experience is ok, just assume, then I would say you're actually not meant to keep up with the farmers if you decide to go gank style. Since the bonus is now shifted to the laner you ganked for, you trade your potential gold and experience for that particular laner's gold and experience if you catch my drift, making ganking a decision and the incentive to succeed in doing so.

Imo that idea is ok, it just needs more smoothing job to do.

Personally the only place they would really need to look at atm imho, would be the viability of tank junglers and camp stealers.

Nin10do00141 votes

I probably should not propose change, but I do have something in mind to help bolster the experience flow for Gankers. Remember the Conservation from Spirit Stone items? Perhaps Riot could implement that onto the Tier-2 Jungle Items while making it grant bonus Experience rather than Bonus Gold.

I could see this helping Tank Junglers out, though Bruisers could still outclass them anyway.

SEKAI1 votes

That would be cool, I will admit having more things for everybody is always cool.

The problem with tanks atm is that they aren't really tanky with the amount of %hp and penetrations there are in this game, nor do that have more cc than most bruisers and hell even mages/assassins/adc, so bruisers are preferred as they actually deal damage. They need to make tanks actually threatening so they will come back again.

Nin10do00141 votes

Reducing the amount of %Penetration that Last Whisper and Void Staff provide would be beneficial to Tanks. 35% Penetration means a tank with let's say 400 Armor would have only 260 Armor instead vs. that Champion. That's a total of 140 Armor gone.

Erockandroll1 votes

Here is my two cents.

The Jungler Passive: which is on the new machete has one of the most Translucent abilities, that being it does not really favor anyone. It's a flat DPS boost and a Flat sustain boost against jungle monsters. What does this actually mean? it means that who Ever relied on Spirit stone before Can't Reasonably get significant sustain from the current Jungle item. But at the same time, they have their fast clear speed, and are not disproportionally rewarded for it.

Tanky Junglers will have slower clear speeds, but will have triggered the Jungler passive for a lot longer. That being said, the only thing I could recommend for tank Junglers is more armor. You can't give them disproportional levels of DPS, but you can give them a healthier clear.

Now let me talk about the different smite effects.

item 3706 : I might argue that this is the Only way to go. it's pretty powerful compared to other smite effects. The only reason I might not take it is if I already have a pretty reliable slow.

item 3713 : This was Released to be the Prime Camp clear item. But I felt that the nerf to the Original CD on the smite kinda prevented it from becoming goto. And yet their are not real other strong points to it except for the sustain.

item 3711 : This has the Opposite Problem that the Release Trailblazer had. Though it was indirectly buffed with ammo system, It's just way too situational. If you don't have good opportunities to Counter Jungle, it becomes useless. That being said, if we buff it, it would likely become Over buffed.

item 3715 : I have no Idea after it got changed thanks to WW. It had become a more translucent ability for improving dueling power. I'm just not sure if the dueling power is enough.

Now look as smite buffs. The Krugs give more safety to fast clear junglers, while Glomp give more DPS to tank Junglers. I would almost always start one of these before going on to Red/blue. The Wolves give you vision on the Blue buff side of the Jungle while the Razor backs give you vision denial. Now what does this mean? Fast clear Junglers would likely take Krugs, for clearing, and look at smiting a razor back to spot out wards before ganking or attempting Dragon. While a Tank Jungler would likely need to stack The Glomp buff with Red for clear speed. while using the wolves to watch for invades.

Now here is my Problem with OP's complaint. Farm Jungers will be out ganked while ganking Jungers will be out farmed. The best Jungers are the ones who can switch between either Ganking and Clearing. And these are inevitably Bruisers like J4 and Lee sin. One of the major Problems with Tank Jungers is even if they have better health than their counterparts. they really can't out duel and invader. This means that a laner needs to intervene, which does not always happen in solo queue, and might not happen because the laner is pushed. Consequently, This give more options to dueling junglers who don't have as much ganking power. Because if go to bot/top lane, and it's pushed. you can counter Jungle with less chance of their intervention.

In short. The ground work is present. The items could use a few tweaks. and some champions should be looked at case by case to be made viable.

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