For my birthday, let's have a discussion about Gameplay Balance.

The Highest Noon··3 votes·1,984 views

It's something almost everyone who's ever played this game questions at least once in their lifetime experience. "Balance". What is it? How do you define it? How would you redefine it? Are Rioters doing a good job at it, according to their or your own definitions? Let's discuss!

I've only considered the idea of gameplay balance so often with this game, only when it's a relevant thought to have. It began years upon years ago with my first experience against a hyper carry, and ends with my latest thought of "Why do come-back champions exist?" Personal grievances aside, I think that the game is fairly "balanced" in regards to the ideas that:

  • Champions with high damage have low survivability
  • Champions with high survivability have low damage
  • Champions in the middle have reliable use
  • Counter-building helps
  • Not building at least the basic amount of defense allows near any champion to smack you
  • Not building at least the basic amount of offense can be problematic
  • You can't milk those!

but I also find that certain aspects of the game are unfairly "imbalanced" because:

  • Let's face it, certain changes are a matter of favoritism/popularity
  • Riot's desires for the game change too often
  • Champions with too much damage can gain too much survivability
  • Champions with too much survivability can gain too much damage
  • Riot finds one idea that people seemed to enjoy and literally gives it to everyone
  • There he is!

It's just...I feel that the game could be better maintained, but there are too many factors involved. I also feel that certain aspects are just right. I think that the game is at a healthy place, but it's about as healthy as your average American 20-40 year old.

Anywho, let's discuss. Have at it, fellow Summoners!

[sg-ezreal]

Discussion theme:

https://youtu.be/IoAGqL0RvGs

11 Comments

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

You can't look at things in terms of just damage versus survivability, though. Mobility (which itself has many forms, such as simply moving fast (Such as Singed's R), engage-based mobility (Diana's R), free mobility (Ahri's R), or roaming mobility (Quinn's R)), utility, CC...If a champion has low durability, but high utility and CC, they should still generally have low damage. Conversely, high damage and high survivability are often necessities on low mobility low CC champions - If Garen or Nasus had low damage to counteract their high durability they'd be troll-tier picks.

And how do you balance counter-building? Sure, armor lets you survive autos, but when is it helping too much? And what about anti-armor builds? Or anti-armor champions?

Balance is always more complicated than people think. You can boil it down to a few ideas but those ideas tend to be extremely vague at best.

The Highest Noon1 votes

{quoted}

You can't look at things in terms of just damage versus survivability, though.

This is true, but gotta admit that it's a pretty significant factor. Of course that's not all that matters. You're also forgetting that stats play into the determining factors as well. And pick/win rates, too. Like I mentioned, there are too many factors involved. This is why I'm only giving my opinion on the matter, and not saying "This is how it should be or else it's shit"

And how do you balance counter-building? Sure, armor lets you survive autos, but when is it helping too much? And what about anti-armor builds? Or anti-armor champions?

Good question. More factors involved. It's especially difficult when you consider the lack of enforced itemization. How do you balance a champion when you can build literally anything you want?

Balance is always more complicated than people think. You can boil it down to a few ideas but those ideas tend to be extremely vague at best.

Agreed.

The Highest Noon1 votes

LMAO my man pulled out a board with a math equation on it. THE PERFECT WEAPON. [sg-miss-fortune]

But yeah, I guess my quetion to both of those would be...then what's the perfect strategy for balancing League of Legends in the current meta? I get what it way saying--easy champs have high up-front capabilities, but after a while of learning you'll discover that those easy and "op" champions have pretty glaring flaws. LOOKIN' AT YOU, GAREN. A thing I've noticed though is that it's also possible for us to learn to use those easy op champions in more easy and more op ways. Would you say that League is a perfectly imbalanced video game? Or that it's perfectly balanced for skill?

This is actually pretty interesting to learn about and discuss.

Kai Guy1 votes

"Would you say that League is a perfectly imbalanced video game? Or that it's perfectly balanced for skill? "

My personal feelings are is a bit of both, I don't think the two are exactly mutually exclusive concepts. I feel that Champion viability is impacted by a massive amount of variables but the easiest short hand is to say that the more team reliant for success you are the weaker it is lower on the ladder, to an extend this can be overcome by personal skill/mechanics but assuming your skill is around or close to the MMR your in those champions are terrible choices to use if you wish to climb. your going to have to grind your skill to a much higher level.

This is not always true because mechanical skill gaps are big and synergy of a simple champion can serve to greatly buff a more complex one or hard counter a higher cap one... But for the majority of the ladder not looking at outliers. I think its a realistic and reasonable rule of thumb to use for correctly placed players.

Meanwhile in very high ends of competition the top picks function as what provides the most synergy, so picks that work at their best case of team work, or things that enable other champions best cases are stronger. The overall teamcomp becomes a deciding factor far more then any 1 individual champion, despite the fact you might see something like a Protect the KogMaw comp. Despite it all being decided by Koggles performance in team fights the comp itself is entirely about ensuring he hits that performance reliably, when enemy picks counter it or team picks cant reliably achieve that its a nonviable strategy.

So on the whole, massive meta shifts, 2 week patches. Game is about Imbalance to shift up metas and keep gameplay from getting stagnated.

I think league adheres to the concept of perfect imbalance but riot will fk up and then its just painfully imbalanced, and this also is subjective to players because if your playstyles in the gutter the games not enjoyable for you if you only had 1 playstyle. (sorry OTPS that's life thou.)

I love Extra Credit series. They do a solid job.

Bit off topic to the videos but 100% in line with your Bday threads desire to nerd out and chat on Balance. This carries on to my love for Off meta builds.. On a arbitrary scale of 1 to 10, If your champions best case is Build A. is 10 and a alternative build B build best case can only achieve 8, on paper you should NEVER use build B. Realistically if as a player the pattern required to hit B is lower then the requirements to hit A or gameplay matchups prevent A from hitting its best case, any time the result of A is not best case and is under what the result of B would generate then you should build option B.

The Highest Noon1 votes

And that's an interesting aspect of the game, too. Sometimes it becomes impossible to make the most out of the meta, making off-meta the next best thing. On average, at least in lower elo, the off-meta strategies have a higher success rate than the best, meta strategies. I think that too can determine how the game is balanced and what the team decides to balance things around. Take Talon for example. Before the mass Assassin rework, his issue was that he could destroy an entire team instantly with little to no counterplay. Akali, as an assassin, could not only dive into the fray with zero effort, she could kill everyone and have enough sustain to be relatively secure in whatever she did. It's what they were capable of achieving that caused the balancing of the game to shift. Recently, we've seen a surge of AP Shyvana play--something that was thought of but never implimented on a widespread scale. Because she's gaining so much attention, we might see a change or at least a nerf in that AP aspect.

So, just like one of the videos mentioned, as people discover new possibilities, the game's balance shifts according to that.

I just hope that they don't touch my Beat-A-Bitch Thresh. Smacking everything in sight at 4.0 attack speed will never cease to amuse me. [sg-janna]

Kai Guy1 votes

When Thresh was released I ran Sword of the Occult as an item because his Charging auto damage passive was on his Q. It was hilarious, youd end up hitting for several hundred damage with a Red charged Auto.

I hope they don't touch my ZZrot bard. I love the massive confusion players have every time I stun them on the portal. HOW DID THAT STUN THERES NOTHING HERE! … Zzrot is terrain my man. No one is safe when I am mia ^,^

The Highest Noon1 votes

Great, now you've convinced me to play Thresh mid. Again. I said I wouldn't do it any time again this week after smacking Yasuo but hell the Faceless in me says otherwise.

Kai Guy1 votes

Ah that reminds me. More game design discussion. Ever look into Psychographic profiles? https://mtg.gamepedia.com/Player_type

I use the terms Timmy, Jhonny, And Spike all the time. Its nice to see Riot dabbling into Psychographic profiles. As you might gather...House Faceless myself.

The Highest Noon2 votes

Huh. Power plays, Creatives plays, and Competitiveness. TBH, the psychology of gamers can be useful in certain situations. It's partly how Riot comes to decisions on champion designs. What type of character do players want? Does the game need? Needs attention? Etc, etc, etc. But some of that is less about psychology and just game dev in general.

FACELESS BOIZZZ

Kai Guy2 votes

Faceless life bruh. Well my day is winding down. Hope your Bday was good and rock on man.

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