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So now I had the first game against the infamous "Crit-Vayne" I heard so much about...

SaltyToplaneGoat··11 votes·1,383 views

Holy shit how can this even be allowed to exist? Q, crit, woops 80% of your hp is gone in one shot.

Vayne, the "tank-shredder marksman", now deletes squishies without even proccing the thrid Silver Bolts stack at times. Now what the hell am I supposed to do against that? And as a squish you can't really buy armor, for it is a) not really efficient with your tiny HP pool and b) if you go fulltank you deal no damage and might as well go afk because you cannot help your team with doing your job anymore.

And once again Vayne is the #1 Marksman, viable against literally everything. Didn't that happen already? Like, every 1,5 seasons or so? And why has Riot just NEVER learned from it? Vayne suddenly getting OP is as reliable as Ezreal abusing the new on-hit item, whatever it may be.

Now I am sure some who have started abusing this design flaw will claim that she only has a 51% winrate overall. Yeah. With a 20% playrate. That already is an issue, but tbh if out of 130 champs one literally appears every fifth game there HAS to be something wrong.

23 Comments

Craft Zeppelin6 votes

Yes, I laned against one thinking it was your general vayne. Holy crap, when you ult you have a stat worth of ANOTHER bf with your shiv damage.

reminds me of pre- rework AP poppy class of ball busting damage lol

SaltyToplaneGoat2 votes

As someone who plays and has played a lot of Poppy... no, not even AP poppy was that obscene. And even for that she'd have to ult you AND ram you into a wall... vayne just ults, unstealths and before you can react there are at least two autos flying, and a thrid you can't prevent. After that you got a <4 second time-window to burst her down, or she tumbles again and then you are really dead, if you didn't instantly die from the first tumble+ aa already.

Not sure what I am supposed to do against that. Only play Malzahar and always save my ult? Welp, then she ignores me and murders my team until she gets a QSS...

PermabannedGaren2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kyoki Shinkuro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JvJEd3J2,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-11-01T02:18:40.550+0000)

As someone who plays and has played a lot of Poppy... no, not even AP poppy was that obscene. And even for that she'd have to ult you AND ram you into a wall... vayne just ults, unstealths and before you can react there are at least two autos flying, and a thrid you can't prevent. After that you got a <4 second time-window to burst her down, or she tumbles again and then you are really dead, if you didn't instantly die from the first tumble+ aa already.

Not sure what I am supposed to do against that. Only play Malzahar and always save my ult? Welp, then she ignores me and murders my team until she gets a QSS...

AP fucking nothing. AD Poppy did just as much damage with a single Q.

You're fucking delusional if you think Vayne has anything on a late game pre-rework Poppy.

Brain Errör 4045 votes

Yet we never saw a single Vayne in the LCS even after all those "buffs"... mhmm, she must be #1 rite nao.

Lady Hammerlock2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Media TM,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JvJEd3J2,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-11-01T05:40:48.711+0000)

Yet we never saw a single Vayne in the LCS even after all those "buffs"... mhmm, she must be #1 rite nao.

Actually she was played once, Veritas played her

Neko Caitlyn3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kyoki Shinkuro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JvJEd3J2,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-11-01T01:43:34.622+0000)

I am bad at this game.

I agree.

18 NAKED COWB0YS7 votes

i would read this comment from someone that isnt scared to type this out on their main rather than a level 7 like a pussy :)

Ruin Lance1 votes

biased low elo adc main can't handle the truth :^[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[

Need Gold 4 Tent3 votes

Crit Vayne has always existed, the cookiecutter ADC build has never been "bad" on any ADC. It's just that BoRK got nerfed so rushing it is meh now, and they made her crit her Q or not at all, so you now have an arguably "superior" build. It's not really a buff because if you missed the crit for her Q damage back then, you could still crit on her autoattack damage, vice versa. Now it's crit both parts (big numbers) or don't crit at all (well, nothing). It basically became an all or nothing when you had low crit chance, and irrelevant when you had high crit chance. If anything, I'd call it an overall nerf.

And with crit builds, you will get something like 80% crit chance anyway, in which case chances are you are going to get both parts of her Q to crit independently anyway even if they didn't make this change. Essentially, nothing about Vayne has changed, this is just a kneejerk reaction to something that happened to become FotM.

One thing though, crit is strong. But that isn't Vayne. If anything, blame the MM update that basically gave 100% crit to every single ADC.

SaltyToplaneGoat2 votes

The issue is that her "all-or-nothing" roll is pretty much on a 4 second cooldown...

And as always, it is crit, this relic from old Dota days. Should have been removed when dodge went out tbh...

Need Gold 4 Tent1 votes

It's a nerf. It means if she doesn't get a full crit on both parts, she does not get a crit at all. With the old mechanic, she could still crit both parts, but she could also crit partially which means her overall dps is higher. Nothing was changed about her cooldown either.

Rebonack1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sir HaxaIot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JvJEd3J2,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-11-01T02:48:46.048+0000)

It's a nerf. It means if she doesn't get a full crit on both parts, she does not get a crit at all. With the old mechanic, she could still crit both parts, but she could also crit partially which means her overall dps is higher. Nothing was changed about her cooldown either.

Her DPS is exactly the same, it meant that her variance was lower before.

Making both always crit together made crit-fishing quite a bit stronger.

Hinagiku331 votes

Complains about Vayne's Q being on a 4 sec cooldown.

Forgets that Vayne has always bought Zeal items and has been getting Critical Strike with 2.0+ Attack Speed since Season 1.

The crit change to her Q means literally nothing. If you are not a new player and have played against Vayne before then this should not be a new amount of damage for you. Every time you have ever played against Vayne she probably bought at least 2 crit items and her AA and Q damage would have crit at the same time at least 50% of the time she has ever attacked you late game.

This isn't "OMG Vayne abusing Critical Strike for the first time ever!", this is just Critical Strike being the same thing it has been on every Marksman since the Beta.

Sire Hippington3 votes

Well, yes, she's a monster right now and certainly needs nerfs, but could we stop to pretend that she didn't delte squishys fast in the past as well if built accordingly? If her Q now takes 80% of your hp, it would have taken 70% befor the latest buffs, which honestly isn't a big difference as in both cases 1 more crit will finish of the target. Her Q damage has been increased by ~13.33%(from 150% total ad to 170%), and her ult always gave a massive AD steroid while vayne has a huge base AS. Killing squishys with 2-3AAs has always been something Vayne did once she had ~4+ items.

PermabannedGaren2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kyoki Shinkuro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JvJEd3J2,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-11-01T01:43:34.622+0000)

Holy shit how can this even be allowed to exist? Q, crit, woops 80% of your hp is gone in one shot.

Vayne, the &quot;tank-shredder marksman&quot;, now deletes squishies without even proccing the thrid Silver Bolts stack at times. Now what the hell am I supposed to do against that? And as a squish you can&#039;t really buy armor, for it is a) not really efficient with your tiny HP pool and b) if you go fulltank you deal no damage and might as well go afk because you cannot help your team with doing your job anymore.

And once again Vayne is the #1 Marksman, viable against literally everything. Didn&#039;t that happen already? Like, every 1,5 seasons or so? And why has Riot just NEVER learned from it? Vayne suddenly getting OP is as reliable as Ezreal abusing the new on-hit item, whatever it may be.

Now I am sure some who have started abusing this design flaw will claim that she only has a 51% winrate overall. Yeah. With a 20% playrate. That already is an issue, but tbh if out of 130 champs one literally appears every fifth game there HAS to be something wrong.

Let me explain some very basic concepts to you.

Vayne has a 51% win rate, and a 20% play rate. You seem to believe that matters.

What you fail to recognize is that among ADCs, Vayne has the most experienced playerbase in the game, with players averaging 123.74 games on her.

So what, do you think Vayne should have a sub fifty win rate despite having a very experienced playerbase?

HeeroTX2 votes

{quoted}

What you fail to recognize is that among ADCs, Vayne has the most experienced playerbase in the game, with players averaging 123.74 games on her.

Wait, isn't Jinx the "adc with the psychotically devoted mains that give her a high winrate"? Is this now the "raison du jour" for why X champion is OP?

PermabannedGaren1 votes

{quoted}

Wait, isn't Jinx the "adc with the psychotically devoted mains that give her a high winrate"? Is this now the "raison du jour" for why X champion is OP?

http://champion.gg/champion/Jinx

It is also true of Jinx, though to a lesser extent.

Do you think that people with a lot of experience on champions shouldn't win most of their games?

HeeroTX2 votes

I'm saying I hate Jinx and this is the response ALWAYS given for why its ok if Jinx is OP. Its just funny that people are now using it for other champs. (I don't think Jinx is OP and I hate her so much I've gotten well-versed in fighting her (at least at my elo))

As for your question, in THEORY a champ only played by mains should be closer (closest?) to 50% because IF Riot's matchmaking worked correctly (hahahahaha) then players are basically at 50% win rate and people who play tons of games on a single champ should be "even" in rate. (give or take)

AmetDeCrypt1 votes

it's less the champ and more the build that's so strong.

6Sfool3 votes

It's the fact that her q bonus damage interacts with crit. 170% ad without crit * 250% damage with IE and crit = 425% ad. Not many on-hit damage effects apply crit, so this special case is absolutely broken. If she doesn't crit she loses a lot of power, but if she does she can 1-shot squishies mid-late game. Apparently Riot likes this cancer on a champ that already counters tanks.

AmetDeCrypt1 votes

huh. well I stand corrected, she gets a free cait headshot

Critmaster Garen1 votes

just build armor against her crits. dont worry about the fact, that pd is also one of the highest attack speed items and she just wrecks you with her w.

PermabannedGaren1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JvJEd3J2,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-11-02T18:10:37.979+0000)

just build armor against her crits. dont worry about the fact, that pd is also one of the highest attack speed items and she just wrecks you with her w.

You're not supposed to be able to easily counter Vayne's damage through building defense.

That there are people who don't realize this is pathetic and sad.

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